I own a pirate nes console and a pirate nes cartridge (both of them are 60 pin). Recently I have translated a nes game to my native language and I can play it on my computer without any trouble but I really want to play it on my nes console! How can I do it? Can someone help me?
Thanks in advance
What kind of cartridge is it, and have you taken it apart? You'll want one that uses normal memory chips, a lot of pirate carts that I've seen use glop-tops and you can't rewire anything (not easily) since there is no removable chip (just a blob of epoxy).
Memblers wrote:
What kind of cartridge is it, and have you taken it apart? You'll want one that uses normal memory chips, a lot of pirate carts that I've seen use glop-tops and you can't rewire anything (not easily) since there is no removable chip (just a blob of epoxy).
I just want to play my desired nes game on my own 60 pin nes console. Please tell me the best way.
And this is my 60 pin cartridge :
That's a glop, and gloptops can't be reprogrammed. Either they use mask ROM, in which case they really can't, or they use flash memory, in which case none of us is likely to learn how.
Alright, I can't reprogram my own nes cartridge. How about building my own cartridge?
I have already searched google and I could find some sporadic document about making a programble nes cartridge :
Main Guide :
http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/nes_cart/nes_cart_en.php
ROM Splitter :
http://www.romhacking.net/utils/683/
NES ROM Pinouts :
http://nesdev.com/NES%20ROM%20Pinouts.txt
EPROM Pinouts :
http://nesdev.com/EPROM%20Pinouts.txt
Famicom Cartridge Connector Pinout :
http://nesdev.com/NES%20EPROM%20Conversions.txt
From above documents I find out to this extent :
1. First I need to split my rom to two binary files "chr.bin" and "prg.bin" by using ROM Splitter.
2. Then I need two AT27C010 (128K) flash chips 32 pin sockets.
3. I need a Universal programer
4. A software for writing these two bin files ("chr.bin" and "prg.bin") to each AT27C010.
OK please tell me what software I need to use in step 4? Then introduce me some good document about mappers and what kind of information I need to know for this job?
The software used to write the ROMs is specific to the chip programmer.
The mapper in this case is MMC3, there's not a cheap and easy way to build the cart from scratch. There are some pirate carts that have an MMC3 clone chip, the AX5202. But anything made recently is probably a gloptop.
The surest way may be to import an original Famicom cart that uses the MMC3 and same size ROMs. Most of the info around here is specific to NES carts, but I'm sure that in 99% of the cases the board-type etc. should apply the same.
Actually at the moment I'm not sure where the list is of board types, anyone know?
Memblers wrote:
The surest way may be to import an original Famicom cart that uses the MMC3 and same size ROMs.
Agreed that donor carts are probably the most reliable way to get ASIC mappers other than MMC1.
Quote:
Actually at the moment I'm not sure where the list is of board types, anyone know?
Subcats of
Cat:Mappers. Tennessee CV used to maintain
a list of boards used by North American games.
Bootgod's database is a good place to look for games that use the same board. Find out the name of the board the game you want to make a cart of and then look for other games that use the same board.
From the info you posted, this game appears to use a TLROM board, which is the simplest type of MMC3 board. Not only it is very common, but you can also use some of the more complex MMC3 boards (TKROM, TSROM) and the game will run just fine (it will simply ignore the extra RAM and battery that might be present, since TLROM boards don't have those).
Once you have a cart that uses the correct board you have to desolder the original ROMs, burn your hack to EPROMs/FlashROMs using an EPROM programmer, and solder those to the board, rewiring the few pins that are arranged differently between the old chips and the new ones.
Since EPROM programmers are not exactly cheap, of course you will only want to get one if you plan on making more carts in the future. If you are instead planning on making a single cart it would be better to get someone to program the chips for you. Usually it's possible to find stores that offer EPROM programming services, but if you can't find any, most people who own a programmer would do it for you, you'd just have to pay the shipping.
Thanks to all of you.
I am not worry about the programmer because one of my neighborhoods promise me to provide it for me. He is working on programing Digital LED Board for public places. (I don't know what is the exact name of them in English)
I found the exact game board (Wow it is 60 pin, really interesting) :
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=2163
I want to make an exact board instead of using a same game board (because I think it is hard to find the same board and making one according to the pictures is more simple) :
Front :
Back :
So I need a board like this (I don't know it's name in English)
Then I have to make it 60 pin by using spesial acid and boardmarker.
Now questions :
1. Still, I don't know exactly what software I need to program AT27C010.
Technical info of AT27C010 :
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc0321.pdf
2. What are the extra stuff (a resistor, an IC and ..) on the original board in the above picture? What are their specifications?
3. I don't need to worry about CIC Lockout (because the whole project is pirate as well as the above picture, since it is 60 pin), do I?
4. Why one of IC in the picture is 28 pin (PRG) and the other is 32 pin (CHR)?
5. Is it possible to replace two IC in the picture with two AT27C010? Are their pinouts the same?
1. You can be sure that any decent chip programmer will support it. There is probably an option for "27C010" which should be able to work with it. I know with the AT27C roms however, on my programmer I had to change a setting with a jumper on the board or it wouldn't burn right. I would guess a better programmer would be able to identify it though.
2. MMC3C is a custom chip by Nintendo, there is nowhere you can get this except from an NES or Famicom cartridge. So there's not much hope in building it from scratch. But also, C1 is maybe a 10uF cap, and C2 is likely a .1uF capacitor. I'm not sure about that cap that's by the MMC3 though.
3. Nope, lockout is only a problem on the front-loading NES.
4. Good question, I don't know. I think they always used 32-pin for 128kB CHR ROM, but 28-pin for 128kB PRG-ROM.
5. Pinouts aren't the same. See these docs:
http://nesdev.com/NES%20ROM%20Pinouts.txt
http://nesdev.com/EPROM%20Pinouts.txt
http://nesdev.com/NES%20EPROM%20Conversions.txt
btw a couple words you were looking for, for the LED sign perhaps marquee, and for the board, perf-board (perforated) - AKA prototyping board and other names.
FARID, building your own board from scratch will be really hard. I don't think there is a simple/efficient way to create the connector pins, and you also have to worry about the thickness of the board: if it's too thin it will not make good contact, but if it's too thick it might ruin the cartridge slot in your console.
So even if you wanted to build your own board, I'd suggest you use the connector from an existing board and glue them together somehow. But like Memblers said, the MMC3 chip can't be obtained from anywhere else than existing carts, so you will have to obtain an original MMC3 game anyway, and since you'd have the board already it would be better to use it than to make your own.
If the game used a simpler discrete logic mapper (such as CNROM or UNROM), it would be possible to build it from standard logic chips you can buy anywhere, but the connector would still be an issue.
I am living in IRAN. Although there is not much good things here, I believe here is paradise!
Anyway I am sure, I can't find any similar board here. So it seems that I have to play my good old nes games on my good new computer!
But one more thing who made those 60 pin pirate cartridges that even after about twenty years there is not anyway to reprogram them or make a similar one? Were they aliens?
FARID wrote:
So I need a board like this (I don't know it's name in English)
That is called a "Breadboard" in English. It's a weird name. According to Wikipedia, it's because people used to use actual cutting boards to prototype electronics.
Quote:
But one more thing who made those 60 pin pirate cartridges that even after about twenty years there is not anyway to reprogram them or make a similar one? Were they aliens?
No, they were made by Chineese (or similar countries) pirates. All they wanted is to produce as many cartridge as possible for very cheap. You can tell the quality of the plastic and art label is by far not on par with actual Nintendo carts.
And in the inside, instead of having true chips that are soldered on a board like most Nintendo carts, they just have the silicon die "glued" directly on the board, and protected by an epoxy blob (by looking at your picutre, it seems one die isn't even protected by epoxy, how CHEAP). I guess this technique was cheaper for very large productions. It was used for many pirated games (but not all of them), but also for many legitimate Japanese games (especially the ones by companies who made their own carts like Namco, but also from Nintendo). Only the SMB/Duck Hunt or similar cartridges that were sold together with the NES system are using epoxy blobs in western 72-pin legitimate Nintendo cartridges.
I hope this anwers your questions. If you want to reprogram a cartridge, you'll have a hard time if all you have is pirate carts. Even pirate carts using true chips are likely to use a werid mapper - your best bet is to find a true chip cart with a MMC3 clone on it.
Bregalad wrote:
If you want to reprogram a cartridge, you'll have a hard time if all you have is pirate carts. Even pirate carts using true chips are likely to use a werid mapper - your best bet is to find a true chip cart with a MMC3 clone on it.
I'm not sure if this will help, but, Megaman III I believe is a MMC3 chip.
You might want to check Datacrystal.org because they list what types of chips games are.
That or
Bootgod's database, or even the
board table that Tennessee CV used to maintain.
tokumaru wrote:
If the game used a simpler discrete logic mapper (such as CNROM or UNROM), it would be possible to build it from standard logic chips you can buy anywhere, but the connector would still be an issue.
How about changing the game Mapper? If I can convert MMC3 to UNROM, is there any change to use a UNROM board?
I want change Mapper 4 (MMC3/TLROM) to Mapper 2 (UNROM)
I choose Mapper 2 (UNROM) because I have its board. Also there is a good tutorial for UNROM reproduction here :
http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=28034
What I need to know for Mapper conversion, specially Mapper 4 to 2
What is the relation between PCB Class and Mappers?
FARID wrote:
I want change Mapper 4 (MMC3/TLROM) to Mapper 2 (UNROM)
That would require reprogramming most of the game.
FARID wrote:
I want change Mapper 4 (MMC3/TLROM) to Mapper 2 (UNROM)
Well, it doesn't really work like that. Mapper conversion is something you consider when the mappers involved are similar and share common features, or when the mapper you are converting to is a superset (it has all the features and more) of the mapper you are converting from.
UNROM however lacks most of the features an MMC3 has, and if the game uses the MMC3 it most likely does make use of such features. There's just no way you can make this conversion, unless you completely reprogram the game, like tepples said. And even then there might be some things that couldn't be done without the MMC3.
tokumaru wrote:
FARID wrote:
I want change Mapper 4 (MMC3/TLROM) to Mapper 2 (UNROM)
Well, it doesn't really work like that. Mapper conversion is something you consider when the mappers involved are similar and share common features, or when the mapper you are converting to is a superset (it has all the features and more) of the mapper you are converting from.
UNROM however lacks most of the features an MMC3 has, and if the game uses the MMC3 it most likely does make use of such features. There's just no way you can make this conversion, unless you completely reprogram the game, like tepples said. And even then there might be some things that couldn't be done without the MMC3.
I am ready to reprogram this game offset by offset. just tell me where I have to start.
What game is it, and why does it need to become UNROM? MMC3 donor cartridges aren't that rare.
Hacking Arabic-translated Kunio-kun games to be UNROM or MMC1 is out of the question. They are dependent on features of MMC3 such as CHR-ROM being quickly switchable, the scanline counter, the 8k bankswitching size, etc. You might be able to change it to a more capable mapper, like FME7, VRC6, MMC5, etc, but not to anything less capable.
FARID wrote:
I am ready to reprogram this game offset by offset. just tell me where I have to start.
I don't know what you mean by "offset by offset", but maybe you didn't understand what I meant by "reprogram the whole game" either.
Like Dwedit said, the game program was written to take advantage of the MMC3 features: 8KB bank size, fast CHR-ROM bankswitching, scanline counter, etc. There is no possible that this same program will run on a cart that doesn't have any of those features (UNROM), no matter how much you hack it.
To make this game run on an UNROM cart you'd have to make a
new game similar to the original one as much as possible. And you're of course not going to do that.
It's pretty much the same as converting a Gameboy game to the NES, it can't be done, you have to make a new game.
tokumaru wrote:
To make this game run on an UNROM cart you'd have to make a new game similar to the original one as much as possible. And you're of course not going to do that.
On the other hand, compare the conversion of Contra (魂斗羅) to UNROM for North American release. But then Konami had it easy, with full source code and all.
Quote:
It's pretty much the same as converting a Gameboy game to the NES, it can't be done, you have to make a new game.
Game Boy to NES (or vice versa in the case of Super Mario Bros. Deluxe) is a bit harder, as you actually would have to rewrite the whole thing, not just disassemble, document, make some architectural refactoring, and reassemble. For example, Game Boy has an 8080-family CPU while NES has a 6502. Game Boy prefers updates in hblank, while NES prefers them in vblank.
US and Japanese Contra came out at about the same time.
tepples wrote:
On the other hand, compare the conversion of Contra (魂斗羅) to UNROM for North American release. But then Konami had it easy, with full source code and all.
It really depends on what mapper features are used. If an MMC3 game doesn't use the scanline counter and doesn't require lots of CHR-ROM bankswitching, it might convert somewhat easily to UNROM. That's hardly the case though, most MMC3 games I'm aware of make full use of the hardware.
tokumaru wrote:
I don't know what you mean by "offset by offset", but maybe you didn't understand what I meant by "reprogram the whole game" either.
As far as I had learned, assembly is a very powerful language. It is possible to do everything with it. But unfortunately it is very complex and changing the source code is very time consuming. For example adding one byte is enough to mess up the whole game. Because of this matter hackers usually use DTE instead of expanding ROM to insert more text in the game.
I guess I have to change everything like adding more bytes in some places, changing the pointers and doing some other things that I don't know.
So my question is what are the steps for this project?
I know fully learning and understanding assembly language is an important step. But I want to know what the other steps are.
Please introduce me some resources.
I want to give it a try even if it seems impossible.
FARID wrote:
I want to give it a try even if it seems impossible.
It doesn't seem impossible, it IS impossible and nobody who knows anything about NES programming will tell you differently.
If a very good programmer decided to try this, he could maybe even get a playable game, but there would be several things missing or broken, because they simply can't be translated to UNROM.
If everything was possible with any mapper, like you seem to believe, there would be only one mapper, don't you agree? Why would they invent a new ones? The truth is mappers were invented to do things that weren't possible before, and the MMC3 does things that simply can't be simulated by older mappers, that's the truth.
As frustrating as it may seem, if you want to see this game running on hardware you will have to buy an MMC3 cart. Is that really so hard in your country? The MMC3 was used in so many games that in the US and in Japan you can buy carts with it for less than a dollar.
Honestly, it would be much,
much easier to modify a glob top cartridge than convert the game to UNROM.
tokumaru wrote:
If everything was possible with any mapper, like you seem to believe, there would be only one mapper, don't you agree? Why would they invent a new ones?
Except for Rare and Codemasters, which routinely pushed discrete mappers to their limits. But I wouldn't recommend trying a complex mapper hack like this until you have a finished game under your belt.
tepples wrote:
Except for Rare and Codemasters, which routinely pushed discrete mappers to their limits.
Yeah, but that's part of the point... If you design a game for the discrete mappers from the beginning you can do a lot, which is why a game similar to this soccer game can probably be coded from the ground up for UNROM, but a game engineered for the MMC3 is a completely different story.
FARID wrote:
So my question is what are the steps for this project?
I know fully learning and understanding assembly language is an important step. But I want to know what the other steps are.
Please introduce me some resources.
I want to give it a try even if it seems impossible.
A notable difference is that UNROM provides no IRQ, while MMC3 does. So for example with MMC3 the game might tell the IRQ to trigger at line 200 (out of the 240 on screen, 262 in total). The IRQ code would run automatically at that time. Without an IRQ, the CPU will have to wait for precisely that time. This affects the timing a lot for the obvious reason (CPU usage), but also because you'll use the NMI interrupt to base the timing, and the game needs to use that also (for vblank). Using the sprite #0 hit helps out here, but it also involves having the CPU wait and you only get 1 screen location, where MMC3 can be re-used and trigger on any scanline. The DPCM IRQ trick demonstrated recently might be helpful.
But the scanline IRQ (and what Dwedit said, except it was Persian) brings up another problem that does make it impossible with UNROM. UNROM has 8kB of CHR-RAM, and I believe this game uses CHR-ROM. The MMC3 will trigger an IRQ at a certain line, then it will use the mapper to change the graphic bank instantly. With CHR-RAM, you have to load it yourself (at 6 CPU cycles per byte, at the absolute fastest). You can pre-load things to an extent, but if the needs it banked a certain way, or uses more than 8kB of CHR, with UNROM there's nothing that can be done without constantly stopping the game.
MMC3 is very common mapper, even pirate carts have many clones of it. One of them is labeled AX5202P, I've found that even those can be ordered from places in China, but the ones I got have a defect rate to make them useless.
Hi, I am back with another n00bish question
I have found a Kunio 8 in 1 nes game (size : 2,097,168 bytes) which is mapper 45.
How can I build a 60-pin pirate cartridge from it?
Do I still need a AX5202P?
Thanks in advance.
I couldn't find any info on mapper 45. If there was a description of how it works, maybe it could be determined. But a mapper like this could perhaps be made with an MMC3 (or clone like the ax5202p), you do still need that. Some standard 74HC parts could control the upper address lines of a larger ROM, to select multiple games.
Here you are :
Mapper 45 Information
This is another Kunio 8 in 1 pirate cartridge :
I am sure this is also Mapper 45. There are three glop top, what might they be?
CHR-ROM
PRG-ROM
?
You have mentioned "74HC parts" what is that?
Sorry to bother you with my n00bith questions.
FARID wrote:
You have mentioned "74HC parts" what is that?
7400 series ICs are a set of standardized integrated circuits. The parts are numbered 74, followed by a one- to three-letter abbreviation for the process (Schottky, CMOS, etc.), then a two or three digit code for what logic function the IC implements. For example, 74HC161 is a high-speed CMOS (HC) 4-bit binary counter (161) found in a lot of discrete mappers, and 74LS32 is a set of four 2-input OR gates (32) with low-power Schottky components (LS).
I have another plan :
I do need a MMC3 anyway, right? How about this :
I can't find any MMC3 or its clone, but still I own two pirate cartridge which I am sure they are either mapper 45 (8 in 1) or mapper 44 (7 in 1), in both cases they are based on mapper 4, so what? I already own two pirate cartridge which both of them include glop top clone of MMC3 whole the time!
Do you think I can use this glop top clone of MMC3?
But first I need to identify which one is MMC3, can you help me please?
Now I really feel that I am making some progress!
With some reverse engineering I could identify MMC3 and its pinout :
Click here for a better quality picture
I couldn't identify one of the pins (pin 39). it is shared between PRG-MMC3-CHR, what the hell is it?
What is WRAM? It seems my MMC3 doesn't have any pin for WRAM!
This cartridge is 7 in 1 and all of its games are mapper4. One of them is
Captain America, it is :
System: NES-NTSC
Board: NES-TLROM, Mapper 4
PRG-ROM: 128k
CHR-ROM: 128k
Chips: MMC3B
I want to build a cartridge from
Kunio Kun no Nekketsu Soccer League, it is :
System: Famicom
Board: HVC-TLROM, Mapper 4
PRG-ROM: 128k
CHR-ROM: 128k
Chips: MMC3C
Do you think their MMC3 are compatible? Do I have to make any modification?
According to
EPROM Pinouts by Drk I need a
27C010 (32pin) but it is OTP (One Time Programming) which I don't like it at all. Do you think I can use
ATmega128 which supports ISP (In System Programming), instead?
Can someone tell me what are the specifications of these components :
What will happen if I don't use these components at all? I mean what will be the result? Nothing runs or any possible damage to my console or My dear MMC3?
Can I use MMC3 in a way that I don't have to take its board apart, just for test purpose to be sure it works fine? You know I don't want to lose a good cartridge for nothing!
I know that I had asked a lot but it's kind of you to guide me.
Thanks in advance.
The ATMega128 is a micro-controller, not a programmable ROM chip. Have a look at the
29F010 (ordering page is
here). This is a Flash version of the same chip that supports programming at 5VDC and can withstand 1,000,000 erase / write cycles.
There is also the 29F020 (256K version) and the 29F040 (512K version) available on that site as well. Here's a warning though: their shipping is a little pricey.
I admire your determination. Rewiring a gloptop board doesn't look easy at all.
The pin for WRAM is probably on the chip, but without a wire or trace connected to it. So I doubt that part of it would be usable. Does the pinout of the chip match the ax5202? That would be interesting. I bet the ROMs have a standard pinout (or at least very close to one).
The circled parts in that pic are C1 - 4.7uF 16V electrolytic (10uF is OK, higher volt ratings are OK). C2 - probably a 0.1uF ceramic capactor (6V rating minimum). I don't know what CC is, it's probably only needed with the real MMC3. Some kind of small filter capacitor.
@qbradq
Are you sure that I cannot use ATmega128?
Is there any other choice from ATmega series?
It is because of my programmer, for Am29F010 I need to buy another programmer.
Does Am29F010 support ISP (In System Programming)?
@Memblers
Yeh, I am kind of a stubborn boy
I will not give up at any rate.
Why don`t you check it by yourself :
Click here for a better quality picture
What about my other questions?
Memblers wrote:
The circled parts in that pic are C1 - 4.7uF 16V electrolytic (10uF is OK, higher volt ratings are OK). C2 - probably a 0.1uF ceramic capactor (6V rating minimum). I don't know what CC is, it's probably only needed with the real MMC3. Some kind of small filter capacitor.
I have found something about CC :
Quote:
There is a 220pf capacitor from ground to CHR A12 on all MMC3 carts, presumably to deglitch it for the IRQ counter
http://kevtris.org/mappers/mmc3/index.html
qbradq wrote:
The ATMega128 is a micro-controller, not a programmable ROM chip. Have a look at the
29F010 (ordering page is
here). This is a Flash version of the same chip that supports programming at 5VDC and can withstand 1,000,000 erase / write cycles.
There is also the 29F020 (256K version) and the 29F040 (512K version) available on that site as well. Here's a warning though: their shipping is a little pricey.
Is there any flash version for 27C080?
Not that I can find for sale. Mouser and DigiKey list them all as non-stock.
There are some 1, 2 and 4 MB parallel Flash chips, but I do not think they come in pin-compatible DIP packages.
Thanks every one. Finally I could build my cartridge of Kunio Kun no soccer, translated to Farsi, and run it on the real hardware!
Now I feel a little better
All that work for a soccer game? Dang yo, you're really dedicated
Congrats!
Very nice! Sorry for bumping a two-year old thread but how does one make a NES cart PCB?
Except for experts, it's probably easiest to buy a PCB and populate it. It depends on which mapper your game uses. NROM (0), CNROM (3), UNROM (2, 180), BNROM (34), and AOROM (7) can be reproduced with the ReproPak board, an EEPROM for PRG, an EEPROM or SRAM for CHR, a couple 7400 series ICs, and a CIClone. MMC1 (1) can be reproduced with the ReproPak MMC1 board, an EEPROM for PRG, an EEPROM or SRAM for CHR, and a CIClone.
If you really feel like designing your own PCB, the key dimensions are 2.50 mm from the center of one pin to the next (not the more common 2.54 mm) and 1.2 mm thickness.
I would if I could
I really don't know where to begin to make the PCB's traces, I thought that a factory was needed to that stuff. How did Farid printed his own PCB design anyway?
I wish that an easier UNROM solution existed apart from the Repropak... I'm programming a homebrew which I want to see released on small quantities, but the price + taxes for 20 Repropaks + Ciclones + Shells, plus transportation costs and taxes make that solution inviable... there are some brazilian members here in this forum, they know what I'm talking about.
Another option is to buy a lot of silent service carts, but I would prefer new boards, and it is hard to find carts in good condition (in larger quantities).
If you know about another easy solution for new UNROM PCB carts please tell me!
Donors are so much cheaper, why NOT use them? But infinite NES lives might be able to throw together/have a PCB design. But if you're not gonna order 100 or so, it's probably not getting them made, it'll be too expensive IIRC.
3gengames wrote:
Donors are so much cheaper, why NOT use them? But infinite NES lives might be able to throw together/have a PCB design. But if you're not gonna order 100 or so, it's probably not getting them made, it'll be too expensive IIRC.
That's what it's puzzling me, how did Farid make his own PCB (I'm assuming he made only one pcb for his farsi-translated game)? And depending on the price, I would even contact some national companies about it, but there is another problem: the shells, and I did a more "deep" research on the subject, even the cheaper aluminium molds are dead expensive... better use donors anyway.
The reason I wanted to use new PCBs was because of the 3 wires and pin bending that needs to be done, I wanted to make it look more professional (even being a very small print run), since I'm looking to sell it. Oh well, I hope no one opens the cart's shells
I think the sort of person who's curious enough to open it isn't the sort of person who would look down on you for having to rewire.
tepples wrote:
I think the sort of person who's curious enough to open it isn't the sort of person who would look down on you for having to rewire.
Well I really hope you're right
.
Thanks for the help!
PCBs are more-or-less only inexpensive when ordered in bulk; as a USAan the cheapest I can find for a 9cm×3cm PCB (about right for a SMT NES discrete logic pak) is about 20USD/3.
Farid made his board by
toner transfer method It's a good cost effective option for a single DIY board. The NES makes it a little more difficult due to the 72 pin connector. This really isn't a good option for a small production.
itead is the best solution I've found to getting smaller quantities with the proper thickness. You can get 10 10x5cm boards for around $22 plus shipping.
There are open source CIC solutions out there now, so that can save you around $3 compared to the CIClone. You still have to get a case though. So if you do it right you could still use all new parts for under $10 each plus memory/mapper.
Now if only there were proper grey NES cart shells... I never really liked the transparent colors look.
That toner transfer method is pretty neat. I searched for it and the "PCB Fab-in-a-box" product looks kinda promising, without acid handling:
http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/st ... rview.html , I might try it out someday.
Punch wrote:
That toner transfer method is pretty neat. I searched for it and the "PCB Fab-in-a-box" product looks kinda promising, without acid handling:
http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/st ... rview.html , I might try it out someday.
That's a pretty dang expensive 'kit' especiallly when it doesn't come with etchant. itead is cheaper than that kit actually. You can source the needed chemicals, boards, and paper pretty cheaply elsewhere if you're really trying to cut cost. Not to mention corrosion is going to be a pain with self etched NES boards. I'd consider it for a one off, but not production.