I just tried playing Donkey Kong Country on my friends LCD TV and oh man it was barely playable.
It was a new LCD HD TV and when the image would scroll, the image would be blurry, like it doesn't refresh fast enough.
Do plasma TVs do this too?
Maybe the higher end LCD TVs don't blur as much?
It might have been combining each pair of images into one, since it might have assumed the source to be interlaced, as most are.
The blur may not happen on all of them but slow refresh rate will happen on all of them because the image has to be upscaled in order to play.
its not really possiple to play older video games on a LCD or plasma.
peppers wrote:
The blur may not happen on all of them but slow refresh rate will happen on all of them because the image has to be upscaled in order to play.
Then why can't TVs have a mode to upscale the image 8 scanlines at a time with pure bob deinterlacing?
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its not really possiple to play older video games on a LCD
What's a Game Boy? (I know what you mean: not possible to play older video games on an HDTV without a low-delay upscaler.)
I have a Samsung LCD (SyncMaster 712N) I use on my PC. I've noticed the effect you mean. In low detailed 2D games like NES games, when scrolling you'll notice this weird blur that stops when the scrolling stops. I'd guess it's response time related but I'm not really sure.
Some HDTVs may be better than others, it could be related to a number of things. However I don't remember Donkey Kong Country being a game to notice that effect on. Ofcourse I play my emulators on my PC with scanline blitters.
For retro games, I recommend you get a good CRT TV or Monitor. I play my NES games on an original gray toaster system with a Sony PVM Monitor. For SNES I use my Super Famicom with the same Sony PVM via RGB. The games look the way they were intended this way. But you know you just gotta figure out what works for you.
I also find a modded Xbox is a good way to emulate retro games as you can set the video mode to 480P which should improve image quality alot.
I have not seen blur effect on my TV. My old video games look just fine. But there is a 8ms delay that makes them unplayable.
If someone owns a HD-LCD TV why would they want to use an xbox for there emulation needs when a PC can connect to one stock? Yes they are quite usefull for CRT TV's but dont seem to make sence for HD.
peppers wrote:
I have not seen blur effect on my TV. My old video games look just fine. But there is a 8ms delay that makes them unplayable.
Did you mean 8 ms, or 80 ms? A delay of 8 ms, or half a frame, is acceptable for everything except light gun games. But 80 ms is different.
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If someone owns a HD-LCD TV why would they want to use an xbox for there emulation needs when a PC can connect to one stock?
Because you'd have to buy another PC to put in the same room as the TV.
I am not sure how long it is, its less than a second therefore not 80ms but its enough make it impossiple to play a game without being highley annoyed.
btw for those who want a consoles emulated on consoles the Wii is comeing along quite niceley in that department and the newley finished (Not actually finished but works well and is quite nice)
homebrew channel makes is convinient to launch stuff.
The blur is caused because liquid crystal molecules just don't move fast enough. So, you have white on one frame, and black on other, the molecule starts moving to get the color change, and it will not end its moving by the next frame, so you'll get a grey, which will end up as black if the next frame is black too... if next is white it just will end up being some tone of grey... that's what causes the blur and there's no way around it.
LCDs are slow but high res, Plasmas fast and high res too, but die too soon, CRTs are really fast, live long but the "res" depends on the size of the screen.... one alternative would be organic LED TVs, but that techology needs to evolve... they have excellent properties, but have too short lifetime and have other issues.
TmEE wrote:
The blur is caused because liquid crystal molecules just don't move fast enough. So, you have white on one frame, and black on other, the molecule starts moving to get the color change, and it will not end its moving by the next frame, so you'll get a grey, which will end up as black if the next frame is black too... if next is white it just will end up being some tone of grey... that's what causes the blur and there's no way around it.
LCDs are slow but high res, Plasmas fast and high res too, but die too soon, CRTs are really fast, live long but the "res" depends on the size of the screen.... one alternative would be organic LED TVs, but that techology needs to evolve... they have excellent properties, but have too short lifetime and have other issues.
I really wish someone made modern CRT HDTVs. These limitations are such a drag to a retrogamer.
Are there any sites that compare the least blurry sets out there?
-Rob
DLP doesn't have LCD motion blur. It might have upscaling blur or upscaling delay if you feed an SD signal to it, but that's what premium external upscalers are for.
It would be great if manufacturers would decode the RF/AV signal in low-res and apply NTSC filter to it while scaling it up for the higher resolution.
Oh I'm glad I'm not alone on saying how new monitors are bad. Tough I don't know if they are THAT bad, but I just find the colors looks so much better on CRTs than LCDs... Altough the GBA is LCD and is still very playalbe (altough I got some dead pixels).
Bregalad wrote:
It would be great if manufacturers would decode the RF/AV signal in low-res and apply NTSC filter to it while scaling it up for the higher resolution.
That's exactly what they do, though they're not applying an NTSC filter, they're just plain decoding the NTSC signal, since that is the only way they can get the image. Unlike an emulator, they don't have the original ideal image.
they should have an "old tv emulation" setting of some kind
channels that aren't HD look like crap... would only cost them a couple bucks to add that feature
but why would they when its HD? they just want your DVD's. in the trash and all tv/movies/video games in HD... on the bright side all this HD stuff is bringing prices down.
the only reason they make non-HD look so crappy it because they are pushing HD... kind of like nintendo tactics... they weren't running out of Wii's they just repeated what they did with the NES ROM's (orchestrated a fake shortage)
basically what will happen is some people will get mad and do something about it... like atari
but i think they will have a hard time trying to stop someone from perfecting video signal conversion
jims cool wrote:
but i think they will have a hard time trying to stop someone from perfecting video signal conversion
Someone already has. It's just too expensive for home users.
tepples wrote:
jims cool wrote:
but i think they will have a hard time trying to stop someone from perfecting video signal conversion
Someone already has. It's just too expensive for home users.
lol I know that... video converters have been around a longtime
HD converter since it came out