I know VGA topics tend to have a polarizing effect on the NA community. I absolutely understand it's a subject of personal preference and arguments upon arguments often fall on deaf ears of opposing camps. However, I do believe there are groups that are neither pro-VGA nor anti-VGA. These groups often have been exposed to VGA graded material and understand better the positives of a VGA-graded game, whilst acknowledging there are limitations to such grading services. One of the aims of this thread is to hopefully hear more of the "neutrals" camp. The aim also is to distinguish between facts vs myths regarding VGA.

One of the biggest myths I just would like to rectify: "VGA are a ripoff, why does getting a game graded cost 500%-1000% more?" This is a false thought because it links 2 sources of a graded game to being from the 1 source. VGA does a grading service only, it's the resellers that have the final say in their BIN prices. You can argue further that it's the buyers that determine the final value (just like any other business deals). So in effect, VGA is supplying an acrylic casing product, just like Nintendo is producing games. It's the resellers that are jacking up the prices, and depending on rarity/condition worth, the buyers will want to make offers or completely ignore.

The biggest misconception with the whole "VGA raises prices by 500%" thing is that there are very few actual high dollar sales of VGA games. If you grade a common game, then post to eBay at 5x - 10x the price, it doesn't sell. Do the people bitching about this not understand the difference between an actual sale and noise? Or is it just more fun to bitch about irrelevant, unsold BINs?

For anyone under this perception, actually go to Ebay and browse the completed listings for VGA games.  You'll be disappointed.

What is this thread going to do except incite more VGA-peeps vs. anti VGA-peeps conflict?  

This is going to get spicy.

Well I'm hoping times have change since the collecting community is maturing with each passing year. I'm one of those "neutrals" in that I collect for VGA but I also collect for CIB/MIB/BNIB and even qualified grades. Hopefully I can help better explain some misconceptions, or dispel some myths. Be interested to see where this thread can take us.  
 

Ok I'm going to regret posting about this topic, but here we go.

As a VGA collector that had over 150 titles at one point, and now down to just 5 as of today, I feel I can comment to a somewhat objective degree on this.

1) MYTH: Once a game is slabbed, it costs 500-1000% more.

This is completely untrue. Sometimes getting a game slabbed (or graded for the technical people) actually could lower the value if the grade is low. Yes VGA graded games cost more than raw games usually, but only a small percentage higher which takes into account 1) that it is authentic, 2) that it is in X condition. An ungraded game that is for sale that you can only see a few pictures of is not easy to discern condition, so the risk factor of buying an ungraded game lowers the cost vs. if it has been graded.

2) MYTH: The games never sell for thousands of dollars and just sit on ebay forever, and the ones that do sell only go to the small amount of other VGA collectors out there.

Another false statement. I've recently liquidated my entire VGA collection for personal reasons, and had no problem getting multiple thousands of dollars each for many of them....I've actually sold 40+ games in the last few months alone, quite easily. Sure you won't see many of the sales on feebay, since it is just one medium that VGA games are traded. Sure there is a tight knit group, and of the 100+ games I've sold, I've had plenty of repeat buyers. However, there have been plenty of new collectors that aren't on this forum, many overseas, that are quite active in the VGA market and have been buying up high graded rare titles.

3) MYTH: VGA is a scam, and they have no clue what they are doing.

Very false. As others have said, grading is subjective and this market is still relatively new. I've found that the subjectivity is minor, half a grade difference up or down. For the most part, the grades are consistent and I feel after seeing hundreds of raw and VGA games in my hand, I can generally guess the grade within a half grade nearly EVERY time. They do a fine job for what they provide in the sealed market (I can't comment on qualified or proto authentication).

I barely have a horse in this VGA race anymore, as soon I will liquidate my last 5 titles. Just like any hobby, you will have collectors that collect things based on condition and have a lot of money to contribute to the hobby. This is nothing new, I urge the usual few to stop posting negative comments on others' hobbies. Personally I think CIB is completely silly and the fact that people spend tons of money on used cardboard is NUTS, but I don't go around saying it on the forums...except right now...but that was just as an example. Sorry CIB collectors don't hate me!

I'm fairly neutral toward VGA. Ask me anything! I'm neutral because I'm poor. I'll never send anything to get graded, and I'll never buy anything graded from anyone else, just because it costs more than a barely-functioning loose cart, which is what I'm in the market for. (almost not even joking.) So when I see one on ebay, I just keep scrolling. It's not quite the same as coming across CIBs, because although those also cost more than I'm usually willing to pay, someone could still conceivably have a CIB and "not know what they have," and sell it for plenty less than FMV. But a VGA-graded item, now THAT is something that the owner DELIBERATELY put money into, in order to increase its value. (whether it's personal feel-good value, or resale value.) So those are never shoulder-shruggingly just-cleaning-out-my-garage cheap.

I don't really look down on it though. Ebay auctions are sometimes carefully crafted to hide blemishes etc. but I trust a VGA-graded item to be exactly what it says it is.

Is apathy the same as neutrality?

I like the idea because there has been some misinformation going around lately.

Since people from other forums often accuse specific people from This website as some sketchy evil reseller pro-VGA-sealed game market-manipulating group that shuts down any anti VGA talk maybe we can keep this open for people to bring forward their Evidence or Intelligent pro and Anti VGA arguments. If it turns south then its just going to get locked up.

FYI- normally any VGA discussion goes in these therads:

Pictures-http://nintendoage.com/forum/mess...
Sealed collecting/ VGA discussion - http://nintendoage.com/forum/mess...

I don't really have a "pro" argument per say, I just always felt that VGA offered a pretty cool service at a decent price.

-They probably only make 30-50$ on average per sub, so its not like they are ripping people off for thousands and thousands of dollars (which is the way some anti- arguments make it sound)
-you get a very high quality labeled case
-Authentication services
-Cleaning (at extra cost)
-List of blemishes/Damage letter (at extra cost)

For 40$ on a valuable Sealed game that is not bad, to make a really cool protected display piece.

Now, I would LOVE for them to have competition, just because its healthy for the market. And Qualified/protos I don't really care for, I DO feel like they are taking advantage of the market a bit but in the end no one is offering those types of verification purposes outside of hobbyist experts so they are going to fill the void being the closest thing- its called expanding a successful business.

VGA does have some faults, and of course more transparency would be welcome. But if people all around the world that deal in high end sealed games, that DO know how to spot a fake trust them and send their items to them, its good enough for me.

i think "waste of time" is an appropriate phrase here

The way I look at it, it doesn't matter at the end of the day. Some people prefer to have their games on a nice case for display. Me personally, I don't see a point because I don't buy sealed games, but for others I get it. The way I look at it, if you can justify the spending the money, then go for it, that's just how it is. Normally I leave these VGA topics alone because they are like a hornet's nest, but I think this could be a good informative thread. Personally, I know nothing about the VGA other than they slab these games.



Just be sure to take everything I say with a grain of salt, who am I to criticize how people spend their money? It's none of my business! If the person who slabs it gets some sort of enjoyment out of it, don't rain on their parade! Personally, if I like a game THAT much, I'll get it slabbed. But for now, I don't even buy boxed games because I'm gonna get the same enjoyment out of it regardless.

One can argue that "collecting a complete set of loose carts", "playing games all day", and "collecting VGA games" all fall under the same theme of "waste of time". Who's to say which is the more "time waster"?

I think we can call the following, are Myths:
1. "collectors of VGA are all blinded by money and ALL are just in it for the money"
2. "VGA grading is nothing but a pyramid scheme"

1. Collectors of any collectibles are generally of 2 types: collector to collect, and collector to resell. People see a lot of the high BIN prices for some VGA-graded games, and make quick judgment calls that all VGA collectors expect their games to sell for crazy inflated prices. Maybe in some cases the graded games are considered true grails and are worthy of high value, but most true collectors (and this goes for loose cart/CIB/MIB collectors) understand not all the games in their collection will all sell at guaranteed profit margins.
Furthermore, there are some VGA collectors who have been collecting for years and not really known to be actively selling anything at all. Which ultimately means that some collect, purely just to collect.

2. An extension to the first point, there is an assumption that since everyone that collects VGA-graded games are in it for the money, it becomes nothing more than a "pyramid scheme". However, as previously mentioned, some VGA collectors are not all into selling their VGA collection and are not blinded by VGA faith to be actively seeking recruitment for other collectors to join in on the VGA scheme. You may find that most VGA collectors will adopt the attitude "I collect new and sealed, and others can collect whatever the hell they want!"
Sometimes, it's the VGA elitists that pump their chests too loudly and flash their wallets in other people's faces, that makes it seem that all VGA collectors are nothing but a bunch of rich idiots. There is nothing more from the truth from some of my encounters with other collectors of VGA (or just sealed collectors in general). Some are just as humble as collectors of loose carts, CIB etc.

If you don't want to participate in a conversation (on any thread), or think that a thread is of no interest to you, then by all means, please ignore it and move on.

Comments such as the above serve no constructive purpose and are essentially thread-crapping.




 

I read through VGA's entire site. I really think their FAQ and Mission statement explain it all very well.

Our Mission

There has always been and will likely always be a large amount of misrepresentation and over-grading in the collectible market. VGA was founded in order to provide video game collectors throughout the world with added peace of mind when making purchases sight unseen. Until the formation of VGA, dealers, collectors and investors had no universal standard by which to judge an items condition. Virtually everyone had their own ideas, criteria, and definitions by which to rate any given item. One persons Mint or C10 rating was always different from that of another. These issues have only brought problems and frustration to collectors.

VGA has worked diligently for years to develop the standard we use to accurately convey the condition of original and un-tampered with collectibles, thereby creating a safer collecting environment and helping to ensure that your investment is protected for years to come. When you can be certain that an item was carefully examined by well-trained, unbiased professionals, you can relax and better enjoy your collecting experience.

Standard of Integrity

Our employees will never buy or sell items graded by any division of CGA. This helps to avoid any conflict of interest, and ensures an unbiased approach to grading and authentication.

We understand and respect our unique responsibility to set certain standards for grading, which are designed to promote a healthy and fun collecting environment for all.

To best serve the needs of collectors, we will work steadfastly towards the following goals:
•Offer collectors peace of mind by providing a professional assessment of an items condition, authenticity, and other characteristics, thus promoting the healthy growth of our hobby and safer sight unseen purchases.
•To gain your trust and respect by handling all items with the utmost care.
•To continuously improve our policies and procedures to ensure our grading criteria best reflects the preferences of the collecting community as a whole.
•To promote interest in collecting by providing a safer way to make purchases and a better way to protect your investments. We believe collecting is much more enjoyable when you have some assurance that what you are buying is authentic and correctly represented.

Committed to:

Listening... to all of our patrons no matter how big or small. We strongly value your opinions and suggestions for how we can improve your experience with us. We encourage you to contact us with your feedback and ideas.

Consistency and Accuracy... is our goal in every grade we assign. All items submitted for grading are evaluated by professional graders who incorporate strict standards designed to ensure that every item is graded based on its physical condition in relation to packaging/item type, complexity, and size. Rarity is never factored into the grade an item receives.

Unbiased treatment... regardless of who submits an item for grading. We follow a strict set of procedures in order to ensure each item is graded without bias or prejudice. We have no financial interest in your item or what grade it receives, thereby making us uniquely suited to fairly assess an items condition.

Confidentiality... We will not share your personal or contact information without your consent. You can feel at ease knowing that only employees of CGA and contracted authentication experts will have access to your personal information.

Customer Service... is exceptionally important to us. Our goal is to address any and all questions and concerns you may have to the best of our ability, while maintaining the highest standards of honesty, integrity and ethical conduct. We strive to provide you with prompt, courteous, and professional service at all times..

I personally don't really participate in it, but I think it is a cool think to do for some actual "historical" items. A VGA LoZ, Contra, Castlevania, etc. makes sense to me, because you're preserving history. Seeing people trying to sell a VGA Home Alone or Championship Bowling just makes me laugh, because the sellers would never offer the games for the $30-50 that someone would pay. I think it is pretty cool seeing something like a Zelda or SMB3 in a VGA case though. To each their own, it doesn't really impact my collecting anymore than when I open a sealed game impacts a VGA collector.

I don't know about VGA grading but I but I have hundreds of CGC graded comics. I think it helps because it sets some industry standards concerning the condition of games as one person's idea of very good condition may be drastically different from someone else's. I may eventually pick up a few VGA games just for display and historical purposes, hopefully a dragon warrior.

VGA Sux!

It was about time someone says that bluntly  

Great post David! Saw some of your collection previously thru SGH. A shame to see you sellout as you had quite an impressive amount of awesomeness

I don't own any CGC graded comics, but I would imagine the core principles of its grading service would be similar to that of VGA. You have the right idea - grade those you feel strong emotional attachment. People who grade everything wrapped in plastic, without care of title or condition, are not doing it for the right reasons.