There has been an attack on folks that can afford a really good health plan, and those plans are called 'Cadillac plans.' Does it make any of you angry that someone else can afford a really good health plan, and if it does, do you feel that those people should pay more money in taxes to help you get a better health care plan? If not, do you think they should pay some sort of penalty for having enough money to have a 'Cadillac plan?'

The people that have those plans already pay a penalty in the form of graduated income taxes.

BTW, those plans cost the user $15k/year for the individual.  It's not like they're taking anything from you by paying through the nose to have that kind of coverage.

Wow, I wonder what kind of health care you can get for $15k a year. I imagine something like massage therapy with happy ending.

Not really.  It just has no annual deductible or coinsurance payments.

I don't subscribe to it since I get relatively cheap insurance through my wife's company, but the plan at my office costs the company $14k per year.

Im not a Obama fan but he said one problem with health care is people would rather spend their money buy luxury items, such as a boat, extra sports car, vacation, etc instead of buying health care.

I think it's absolutely asinine that those all fall in the same category.  There is no other first-world country where being able to see a doctor and get a prescription once in a while is a high-end luxury item.

HAHAHA!! Exactly. Well, being a health/life insurance broker, I can tell you 15k a year for health coverage is extremely high. Most people that I have written policies for (age 30), are more like 250-300 per month. Now being strictly in illinois, I don't know how the rest of the country differs, but I can't imagine rates being that far off. The goverment plan that they have been working on is a fucking joke, that is, if it does happen. But I'm not even going to get started because I do this shit all day.

^^^ What kind of coverage is a person getting for only $3600 per year?

Most policies I've ever heard of cost at least $8k/year, unsubsidized.  A more realistic number is $10k-$12k per year.

Sure, people get $250/mo policies from their employer, but the employer is paying another $700-$1200 per month on top of that.

I believe his point is not that health care is comparable to high end luxury, just that there are many people who do not have their priorities set straight. I am sure there are people who go out to eat and have cable choose to have these instead of paying for insurance.

Please don't get me started.  YOu want insurance, get a job and pay for it.  End of story.

yeah thats what i mean instead of buying health insurance with their money they would rather buy a boat then insurance.

Arch- a lot of people only know what they have been presented with or heard of. This is no offense to you or anyone for that matter, insurrance is what you pay for. It's not like buying a car, there is no negotiating, there's no scam, it's not like that.

The more you pay for, the more coverage you will receive. I can show you things as far as rates are concerned. I don't know where you reside, but going with a broker will ensure you with the best bang bang for the buck. My favorite part of this job is actually helping people with there premiums, as well as there coverage.

Please excuse my typing, I'm half blacked out. But in all honesty, If anyone has questions or anything about there policy, I'd be more than willing to help. thanks

kevin

p.s longest post ever.

I'm pretty familiar with the insurance industry and how it operates, but I've honestly never heard of anyone buying a health insurance policy from a broker.

I guess you can get COBRA coverage for around $4-$6k/year, but it's not fantastic.
Anything cheaper than that is only going to be catastrophic coverage, which is fairly worthless.

Real health insurance is generally only available through your employer, and then you only have the options they provide.  There is no individual brokering involved.

It's definetly the way to go. Basically, I work for about 11 diffrent health providers (blue cross, united healthcare, assurant, etc..), and I find the best suited plan that fits your needs. Most people have no idea what they are looking for when shopping for health insurance. That's my job. Secondly, since my company represents so many carriers, some of those companies have developed products and plans that are exclusive to my company. That means if you log onto Assurants website and pick up a policy, I can get you the exact same policy for cheaper, or better coverage for the same price. Until I was actually applying for the job, I didn't even know that  kind of thing exsisted.
*spelling sucks sorry*

If that was the end of story that would truly be awesome. Unfortunately the reality is, that jobs are few and far. Even if you can get a job many places are only hiring part time now, because they cant afford to pay out full time benefits. The reality is, at this point the economy cant support enough jobs for everyone to get one. I hardly think thats even an issue though. Aren't the jobless eligible for government payed health-care already anyway? The problem is, many working Americans cannot afford health-care, or as some have pointed out, have chosen to purchase other things instead. Also for many that do purchase health-care, its a huge financial burden, that is pinning them down, or pinning their employer down. Health-care needs reform, everybody who's looked at it seriously knows that. The only problem we have is agreeing on what kind of reform should be implemented.

End of story? Just get a job? That doesnt even have anything to do with the story, let alone provide an answer.



BTW could someone let me know if either of these are worth getting, or they are pretty much useless?

http://www.coverfloridahealthcare...

http://www.coverfloridahealthcare...

They are the 2 budget plans available in my county, set up by my state governor

you wanna make it cheaper. Let hospitals deny care to the uninsured, take away the government subsidized healthcare. You'll see your premiums drop. There is no "free healthcare"   someone has to pay for it. So when ever someone uses an emergency room without insurance and stiffs the bill, the insured are paying for it. when ever someone on medicaid goes to the hospital or doctor, the insured are paying for it.

The reform being talked about won't work because the people that need the insurance that the reform for, still won't pay for it.  Premiums aren't going to get cheaper.  Healthcare will continue to rise because people will always take advantage of a system that mandates care, and healthcare costs are still gonna rise after the reform because there will be new drugs, new procedures, etc.

If a person covered under some new government healthcare plan they're still gonna have to pay for it. The people who want this new plan STILL won't be able to afford it. The government is trying to subsidize a plan for these people by taxing the insurance companies and of course "the rich".

but what happens when said needy person get the premium bill for said plan and can't pay it?  the same thing that happens now. They don't pay it, and when they need to go see a doctor , they'll go to the ER. Guess what....they'll get serviced(because law mandates it). The hospital will send a bill later to the person(if they can since a lot of these people use false names etc, to mess up the system) and the person will just toss the bill. can't take money from people who don't have it. What ends up happening is the hospital has to raise their prices to cover the loss. That gets passed onto everyone premiums.

I see people do this everyday. Reform won't fix that. 

we won't do it, but start letting those people die in the street or deal with that broken finger on their own, and you'll see people get their priorities straight and healthcare at least stabilize.

Now personally, I have health insurance, but I really don't see the need for most people to have more than catastrophic coverage. If you're willing to pay up front and search around, a lot of doctors are very reasonable to go to for normal check-ups, and wellness visits.

People also need to get thicker skin, you don't need a doctor visit for a cold, or half the BS people go to the doctor to for. you don't need pills, you don't need crap. deal with it. You're turning your immune system into a pussy.

could give you 10 other reasons the system is expensive, but there's a few reasons.

Reform can be a number of things, not just what is being pushed right now. Americas health costs are huge. And its not because people are stiffing the bill, or want free care. In countries with free healthcare, healthcare is alot cheaper then ours. Some of the reason, is due to our research in the health industry. We are taking all of the burden on ourselves. If other countries want our medical ideas and advances, they should share the burden of cost.

I can't believe how heartless some people are here.

Just get a job?  My sister has a job, she went to school for her job, but because she is considered to be "self-employed" even though she works for a business she doesn't own, she has to purchase her own health insurance.  As a single mother, that is expensive!

Just start turning away people without health insurance?  That's why your premiums are up?  NO.  Premiums are up because doctors need to carry so much malpractice insurance for themselves because we are money hungry, lawsuit happy assholes in this country.  Premiums are up because pharmaceutical companies have such a high mark up on their medications it is ridiculous. Of course the poor can't afford to pay for their medications without insurance.

We are the only "first world" country that capitalizes off of its health care system.  We are the only "industrialized" nation that doesn't have socialized medicine!

I'll agree malpractice insurance is also a big reason.

There are several reason for pharmaceutical markup. One is that the amount of dollar spent on research and development. It's retarded expensive to develop and get approved new drugs in the US. years upon years of clinical trials and FDA approvement. It's actually cheaper and easier to get things to market in other countries.

I find it funny though that the drug companies can be sued for stated side effects of drugs that the FDA approved. If the side effects are so bad, why approve it in the first place?  Companies getting sued over drug hits your drug mark up fast.  As long as it's a stated side effect(IE known) I'd be all for not allowing people to sue the drug companies. Have people read and sign a discloser document before they can get the persciption. Let the people make a choice. This pill will probably help you, but it could also do x, y, z, and you accept the chances by accepting said perscription.

They make tons of money don't get me wrong, but we also invest far more back into research than any First world , industrialized country. We come up with the majority of new drugs. That's a byproduct of capitalism. Sure they make more money, but they also have to keep a pipeline, or the company will fail.
Other countries don't make the size of investment into new development we do because, well....they can't. they don't have the funds like we do. They still come up with things, but they have far less products and development takes longer.

I don't try to sound heartless, I feel for people, but we ARE a capitalist country. It's based on competition not equality. When you have a competitive environment, you will have winners and losers. No one will win if no one loses.  If you want equality, you want socialism and the US is not the country for you. 

Other countries have socialized healthcare, sure, but that doesn't mean it's working or worth it.  A lot of those plans are dependant on the work force. The taxes it takes to pay for those plans have cut down the amount of children the population has because they can't afford to raise them. They're heading for a bubble where the workforce won't be able to support the services these plans have promised. Then what? They have to tax more, and the cycle repeats itself.

I'm not saying the system can't be better, but there's a few things that can't be changed.

1) You can't cover everyone---there will always be people who won't pull their weight.  Subsidy is the worst word in government.  Nothing is free, payment has to come from somewhere.

2) Healthcare will never be "cheap" again----no matter what, healthcare won't be what it was 30 years ago because  A) people are generally less healthy now. We're more overweight, we exercise less, etc, etc. We will get sick more often. B) instead of dying, we have pills to "treat" desiese  and such. pills cost money. New types of surgery, costs money, new equipment, costs money.  C) we live longer. due to B, we will live longer consequently, we will also use more pills, etc.   Healthcare involves a lot more than a check-up and some penecillian  anymore.

You make some very valid points Uda.  I have nothing against Capitolism at all, but like everything in life, there is a place for it.  I personally do not feel that it has any place at all in healthcare.  Sure, all of the advancements in medicine are great, but what good are they when only the richest of the rich can afford them and the insurance that will cover them?  What good are they when your physician tells you it is what you need, and the insurance company denies the claim and you're stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, that you can't afford?

The main argument I've heard against socialized medicine is, "I don't want to pay for all of these lazy ass people that don't work so they can be coverd..."  The thing is, you already are paying for them whether it's through government funded programs, or through higher premiums because of the situations you mentioned earlier (people not paying bills, etc.).  The people that would benefit most from this would be those that truly need, and (I feel) deserve it (those working at a crappy job that offers the worst of the worst coverage, self employed individuals, etc.)  Yes it will obviously raise our taxes and we will be paying more for this, but cummon, is your money THAT important?  Why wouldn't helping out someone truly in need be worth it?  To ME, it is absolutely worth it.  It would absolutely be worth it to know that no matter what, I'd be covered if something happened to me.  It would be worth it to know that if I needed an expensive treatment, my insurance company couldn't turn me away for a "pre-existing condition."

I agree with Ross. Capitalism is great, but not when it comes to everything. I would like to consider health care would be included in with the basic care of your citizens. It shouldn't be any different then Fire, Rescue, Police, etc services. Could you imagine if everything were capitalist? "Oh no theres a fire on 34th St.!, Lets call for help!" "Hello fire department, can I help you? What?.. 34th? oh no.. im sorry 34th didnt pay this month. Couldnt afford the new rates, so we dropped them."

Its basically the same thing. Why should your tax dollars rescue people from fires, if they cant give them preventive treatments for other early deaths? Why pick and choose where to save peoples lives? The best country in the world, theres no reason we cant take care of all our working citizens.

Saving peoples lives, shouldn't be a competitive enterprise with profits driving the market. Were not talking stereos, tvs, cars, and real estate here. One day people will look back and think how evil it was to put peoples lives and health on the market driven by profit.

The coverage I have is all inclusive through Kaiser Permanente and it only costs $186 a month with $20 co-pays for doctor visits, $100 co-pay for ER visits and $500 co-pay for hospital admissions. No other deductibles apply. Just to clarify this isn't through a job either, it's the rate available to the general public that fit my demographics.

I read someone's comment on a blog somewhere, and they said something about most hospitals being non-profit. I looked it up, and it seems like ~62% of hospitals are non-profit. Does anyone think that if there were more for-profit hospitals, there would be competition between these places and prices would be driven down? i.e. emergency room visits, surgeries, births, etc.?

I dont think most hospitals are working in an environment where competition would drive down prices. For example, most people going to the emergency room, go to the nearest one. In many areas there arent really options on hospitals as there are really only one maybe two in a reasonable distance. Making more hospitals for profit, would drive up costs, as they would still have to pay their staff and other expenses at the same rates as other hospitals, yet they would need to somehow acquire more money to make a profit.

Theoretically it is always possible for a non profit establishments to work with less money and at a lower cost, simply because there is no extra money needed at the top. You can cut off the cream. This isnt always true in practice, but it can be true in practice, if you have the right people in charge. There is nothing a for profit competitive hospital can do to reduce costs, that a non profit hospital cant do.

Kaiser Permanente is the original HMO.  To get those rates you are SEVERELY restricted in what doctors or specialists you can see and be treated by.