Originally posted by: beardcore84
 

Robert Hunter, wherever you are, nice review!  

Edit: Sorry this image is so huge. I tried editing it three times to make it smaller but it won't get any smaller.  

Originally posted by: Tom Cruise

I just checked and it was listed as video games and consoles > wholesale lots > games. The reason why I think it should be not as described is because the pictures hide any sort of damage and he made zero attempt to reveal the fact that they were marked on the high score pages. I would say that anything added after they left the factory would count as damage. But I guess well see.



The pictures do not "hide" the "pen writing". I posted these items with no knowledge of the writing. If the value of these items justified a full inspection, I would have listed them individually, instead of in a low cost and freely shipped BIN or best offer. I ALSO WOULD HAVE MADE SUCH AN INSPECTION IF YOU ASKED ME TO BEFORE BUYING. It says in my listing "ask any questions". If only a few of the toss in items in a lot listing interest you and if the condition of those toss in items is important to you and if the picture only shows one view of those items, don't you think you need to make an inquiry before you develop such a specific expectation of what the condition of those specific items is?

I did not charge you for shipping. As far as I can tell there is no way for me to charge you for return shipping at this point either. But both of those things cost me money.

There is no "well see" and this is not something that happens beyond your control or anonymously. If you stick to your claim eBay is going to side with you because you're the buyer and that's how eBay works. Either I voluntarily acquiesce or eBay forces me to.

But the idea behind the communication process is that we actually come to an agreement. Do you believe you are entitled to a refund? Does it make sense to you that I will have paid to ship this to you and paid to have it shipped back to me? Does it make sense that I compromised with you on the price, followed your specific instructions on packaging the items, and promptly and securely shipped these to you, only to find out over a week later that you found pen writing and want to call the whole thing off? Do you accept ANY of the risk in this transaction?

 If you do not believe these things then you should cancel your refund request on eBay. If you do believe these things and think it is fair for you to maintain this complaint then you need to never buy from me again. 

.. On planet Earth, regardless of what's right or wrong or who's who or how much money anything is worth, I happen to think these high scores are really neat and contribute positively to the artifact of these manuals. I reposted your photos on atariage:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/...

Originally posted by: VmprHntrD
...
Maybe you could all do us a favor and tell us your ebay id so we can block you if that's how you operate.

Originally posted by: beardcore84
 

Robert Hunter, wherever you are, nice review!  

Edit: Sorry this image is so huge. I tried editing it three times to make it smaller but it won't get any smaller.  

Originally posted by: Tom Cruise

Hey guys just curious about a return. I bought 4 vectrex games from an ebay seller with manuals and the poicture showed everything to be in nice shape. The listing stated the condition was simply used, no acceptable or anything like that. The description was that what was included in the pictures was what you got. So I bought them and everything was in good shape except when I opened the manuals they all had high scores written in the back. This wasn{t mentioned anywhere in the listing, nor was it in the photos. So I contacted the seller and he basically told me to screw off and that he wouldn't accept a return so I opened a case. And I stated the items were not as described by the pictures. there was no indication the manuals had been damaged by pen. And he sent me the following: 

This transaction was for a multi-item lot of 35 year old consumer items. These items are used and were described as such. They are not described as new, mint or like-new or collector's quality. The manuals, including the high score tables shown in the buyer's detailed photos, were previously used for their intended purpose. There is no conflict between the description of the items in the original listing the items that the buyer received. They are used items and there was no advertised or implied purpose of these items which has expired. The purpose of the high score tables inside of the manuals is to write high scores in them. The high score tables are used. They are still able to be used some more and the item is as described.

He basically says that he is right because he stated as used, but my question is will ebay still protect me under the money back guarentee as the items had damage to them that wasn't mentioned? 

Thank all! 

Originally posted by: VmprHntrD

I know it probably is outside the realm as I haven't had a use for it but this site does have that Hall of Shame. Perhaps our topic starter should be added to it as a warning to others if that's allowed. No one here should have to be a victim of this level of ebay snark when nothing was wrong with the listing. Anyone fishing this hard is a liability to anyone here who is a collector, gamer, or seller who pass goods along. Attitudes like this makes people hate selling even further, trust even less, and make less want to bother if they're going to need to photograph every angle on a game, every side of a box, every side of an insert, and every page in a manual to avoid unreasonable levels of self imposed butt hurt and snowflake entitlement behavior.

Originally posted by: Bert

Really? I think he's just mad that he's in the wrong

Originally posted by: Meteor_of_War

Condition item specifics for "Used" in the video games > wholesale lots category is as follows:

Used: An item that has been used previously. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections

I'm inclinced to side with the buyer on this.  I have always felt like writing of any sort on games or manuals should be disclosed somewhere in the description, especially if its on paper and can't be washed off.  I always make sure to check for writing before creating my listings. 

If the seller was unaware of it they should compromise in some way by honoring the return request.  It may suck to hear for a lot who primarily sell, but that's part of being a good seller according to Ebay, which is the site you agreed to do your business on.  Responsibility of the listing falls on the seller and they need to make the buyer happy, period.  That's just how it goes.  Either way Ebay is most likely to take care of the buyer here anyways.

Originally posted by: Meteor_of_War

Condition item specifics for "Used" in the video games > wholesale lots category is as follows:

Used: An item that has been used previously. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections

I'm inclinced to side with the buyer on this.  I have always felt like writing of any sort on games or manuals should be disclosed somewhere in the description, especially if its on paper and can't be washed off.  I always make sure to check for writing before creating my listings. 

If the seller was unaware of it they should compromise in some way by honoring the return request.  It may suck to hear for a lot who primarily sell, but that's part of being a good seller according to Ebay, which is the site you agreed to do your business on.  Responsibility of the listing falls on the seller and they need to make the buyer happy, period.  That's just how it goes.  Either way Ebay is most likely to take care of the buyer here anyways.

Originally posted by: Meteor_of_War

In principle i agree with both of you. But I'm just judging the situation as it is, which is buying/selling on eBay. I've been dealing with eBay long enough that i understand and accept everything with the listing is the responsibility of the seller, and i sell on eBay with that mind set. EBay is set up for the buyer to have the right to return an item they feel is not exactly what they expected. That has been a cornerstone of their policy for a while now. And no I don't think it's the buyer's responsibility when shopping on eBay to have to ask questions before buying, seeing how they structure their policies for buyers.

But like i said, i agree with the idea in principle that buyers should exercise due diligence and try to be fair. But that's not how things work on eBay and ignorance of that leads to these little spats. You give up that expectation when using eBay to sell which regardless of how much sellers complain about the policies, is still the best and most far reaching market to sell their items.

Originally posted by: Meteor_of_War

Condition item specifics for "Used" in the video games > wholesale lots category is as follows:

Used: An item that has been used previously. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections

I'm inclinced to side with the buyer on this.  I have always felt like writing of any sort on games or manuals should be disclosed somewhere in the description, especially if its on paper and can't be washed off.  I always make sure to check for writing before creating my listings. 

If the seller was unaware of it they should compromise in some way by honoring the return request.  It may suck to hear for a lot who primarily sell, but that's part of being a good seller according to Ebay, which is the site you agreed to do your business on.  Responsibility of the listing falls on the seller and they need to make the buyer happy, period.  That's just how it goes.  Either way Ebay is most likely to take care of the buyer here anyways.

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
 
"And no I don't think it's the buyer's responsibility when shopping on eBay to have to ask questions before buying, ..."

Originally posted by: CZroe
  It seems that you are hung up on the part about “imperfections” being in the description. It’s obviously only talking about FURTHER “imperfections” than one would expect from the description of “used.” “Used” already describes typical imperfections from normal use. If the cover was torn off and pages or staples were missing, then we’d have an imperfection beyond what was already described by “used,” which is exactly what they are saying should be in the description. A used item described as used and showing only typical signs of normal use would not be a defect or additional “imperfection.” For someone concerned with the exact level of normal wear and tear to the point that the OP is (someone concerned with how “used” it is), he should not be hiding behind delusions of what constitutes “used” versus additional damage/defects/imperfections.