I've been skimming the internet for lists of "The Toughest NES Games of All Time," and most of them seem to be ill-informed. The same handful of games make those lists - Silver Surfer, Contra, Battletoads, etc. - and while none of those games are complete cake, they aren't nearly as difficult as unsung torturefests like Ikari Warriors and Starship Hector. The only list I've found that has any degree of credibility is Electric Frankfurter's Top 30 list, and although there are a few entries that I don't think should be on there (Castlequest, for one, which has predictable enough jumping physics to be manageable enough when you know what to do), it seems to be a fairly solid list on the whole. I'm currently attempting Ikari Warriors, the #1 game on that list, and after using the ABBA code over a dozen times on level 1 alone, I'm beginning to see where he's coming from; I can barely imagine beating the game without it. Then again, I didn't have a good sense of the functions of powerups at that time, and didn't realize that vehicles were immune to bullets, which will probably affect the way I go about future attempts.

Anyway, that list apparently stemmed from a project that started in these very forums, did it not?

The only way I feel like someone could build a good list is by either beating every NES game themselves, or by pooling their opinions with those who have beaten a ton of NES games themselves. Although, after awhile, I figure someone would start tapping into so many arcane methods of dissecting a game for completion's sake that their own perception of "difficult" would start to become warped... maybe.

I'm curious to know, though, not necessarily about hardest NES games, but about good lists thereof. Or completely laughable ones, if you prefer.

every nes difficulty list begins and ends with ghosts n goblins.

Battletoads is impossible. I'd pay $50 to whomever could beat it in person in front of me.

Elevator Action is another impossible game, even more so than Battletoads.

I don't think Mario Bros even has an end, does it?

I totally agree about Ikari Warriors, without the ABBA code it's probably top 10 on the system in terms of difficulty. Bayou Billy is legit hard, and mostly because of the shitty hit detection.

You want more obscure games? How about The Last Starfighter?

Battletoads is impossible to beat only if it's your first time playing it. Unlike Battletoads/Double Dragon, which is more of a beat-em up, memorization is required of the former, especially when warps aren't used. I remember not wanting to warp in the underground tunnel because I lovedlevel 4 so much, especially kicking the snowmen's a$$e$. I just ducked your snowball, whatchagonnado? Ram horns! I know I can't beat it now as I haven't played it in years but I'm sure I could beat it within a few hours after starting up. Maybe I'll revisit it soon.

I could never figure out how to legitimately beat Bayou Billy. I know I enjoyed it more with Game Genie. That crappy hit detection is so true.

Silkworm is a pretty rough game and is particularly harder w/o an Advantage. Some memorization is definitely required.

The last level of battletoads with the moving board and spikes is insane.  I never could get past it.

Battletoads is hard, but I have actually beat that game in the past. Now Mr. Gimmick on the other hand....Thats a game that is crazy hard! Especially if you want to achieve the good ending. I never have beaten Mr. Gimmick yet, but it is one of my goals before I die. So far I'm hung up on level 3, however I have only been playing it for a few months now off and on.

Dragon Fighter is another one of those games. The first two levels are alright, but the second boss onwards starts getting tricky. And IIRC, in level 4, you can only get power to transform into a dragon by killing the enemies normally instead of charging up your weapon. Considering their nature in stage 4, you'll have to use the homing powerup on them, but you absolutely need dragon power. I got to the 4th boss and died there, and you only get one life, but three continues. Die anywhere in a given stage and you start at the very beginning.

Getting the good ending in that game is by far the single thing I am most proud of doing in a video game.
Surprised no one has mentioned Castlevania 3 yet, absolutely brutal unless you have played enough to memorize what comes next.

I've watched Dr. Morbis beat Battletoads on a lark. Definitely not impossible...well, unless you're trying to beat it with two players, since player 2's controller is disabled on Clinger Winger

Realistically, no game is impossible, and the "hardest" games are purely subjective...I thought Abadox was hard until I played it to completion...only took around 3.5 hours to beat it, albeit with a TON of continues, some memorization and a LOT of luck (not to mention sore thumbs). I still think it's hard (I'm terrible at shooters), but it's nowhere near as tough as I once believed. Silver Surfer is another game that got easier the longer I played it, although I never did beat it.

Anyway, the list on Electric Frankfurter did indeed start here. There was a group of us (10 or so members, give or take) who were tackling a list of 30 games voted as the hardest by the community and narrowed based on our experiences (I can tell you the list had some less-than-difficult games voted in that were vetoed almost immediately by almost all of us, and a few that required much more deliberation). From that we were supposed to get the top 10, but unfortunately for most of us, real life intervened and StanJr was the only one to play all 30 titles to the 5 hour limit we had agreed to before judging the games. He used his data to make the list on Electric Frankfurter, but unfortunately it's only based on one person's opinions. It's by far the best list I'd seen, but due to peoples' varying skill sets, there's no real way to get an accurate list without a bunch of dedicated people working on it.

I also agree with Ikari Warriors... I've spent cosiderable time on games like Silver Surfer and Ninja Gaiden 3 and they're by no means impossible, as I have come close to beating both. IW is indeed torturous and frustrating to the nth degree.

Ikari Warriors, Battletoads, Silver Surfer...

Ikari Warriors isn't impossible, but requires some zen levels of patience to beat. Oh Dagon, it does.
It is just too freaking slow moving, and if you aren't extremely careful, you will die every few steps. You will probably die of boredom before you beat it.

Battletoads is a matter of memorization, and for GnG you need to pick the weapon (between torch and knife only) that suits your style better and stick to it. The game itself isn't really hard per se.

I've never seen a list that I even come close to agreeing with. The Electric Frankfurter one is definitely one of the better lists, but even then it has 10+ games on it that I wouldn't put near a "Hardest NES Games" list and has a few glaring omissions as well.

Keep in mind that those games were simply the games we were playing through to rank for a top 10 list.  There were several that shouldn't have been there due to people voting them in...we actually had to veto games like Bart vs the Space Mutants (seriously) because it had more votes than Magician (fewer people have obviously played Magician) and we felt it wasn't hard enough to justify inclusion.  The 30 that were included were games that the 10 or so of us felt needed to be included at least in the testing phase.  What Stan did was rank all 30 games (minus Gumshoe, which we disqualified early on for requiring extra hardware to play, so 29 games then) without omiting the easier ones.  That said, I would say my result from the project may have been substantially different in the long run, but I'm betting Ikari would've probably ranked at or near #1.

I completely understand that. I was around and remember when he was compiling the list (I'm pretty sure I put my .02 in the thread). Its one of the better efforts, if not the best one, so far. But I still think it need a lot of work even given how subjective the final results are going to be. 

Anyone have a handy link to the list?

(I'm lazy)

Battletoads is impossible without the game genie infinite lives code. Could never beat it without that. Double Dragon 3, Ninja Gaiden 3 I don't think I'll ever beat those.

http://www.electricfrankfurter.co...

I still don't know why people still mention Contra as one of the hardest NES games, i think is one of the easiest ones. No need to use the KONAMI code.

Ninja Gaiden is hard but very beatable with some brain muscle and memorization so it doesnt count as the hardest game either.

I think i have to mention Dragon's Lair, the Final boss combined with your character slugginess make it impossible for me

I think when it comes down to a list of the hardest NES games, everyone's list is going to be different. Sure, a lot of lists will be similar in that they will mention the likes of Ghosts n' Goblins, Battletoads, Ninja Gaiden, Silver Surfer, and Ikari Warriors. But after games like that is where the lists will start to change because one person's idea of a hard game may be another person's idea of an easy game. Plus, a lot of those lists leave off obscure titles and focus mainly on the popular ones. I feel to truly come up with a definitive list of the hardest games on the NES, one would have to play through the whole library of games and give each one a honest effort before making a decision. But even then, if more than one person were doing this, their lists would probably differ.

I finished and submitted my list. StanJr and I were the only ones. That was a ton of work and ultimately a waste of time but it forced me to play a lot of games I would have never touched in my lifetime.

I will forever say Bayou Billy. That game (I think) is stupid hard. Also, I have trouble with Yo! Noid.

See I beat tons of these games like Yo Noid and Battletoads as a kid. Bayou Billy is brutal! Honestly I think all games are beatable with enough time but as I get older I have less time to dedicate to one game when I have over 1000 in my queue to play and beat.

Do you still have that list somewhere, MrClutch?

Regarding the various nominations for Bayou Billy, I don't think I would put it in my top 30... or, at the moment, it would be very low on the list. I'm only 145 games into my journey, with a few that need revisiting. But in any case, Bayou Billy is one of those games that, if given the proper degree of analysis and scrutiny, can be planned out and reliably beaten. There's a boss exploit in level 3 that I stumbled upon that makes that sucker a lot easier to kill; that and the whip (and knowing where to find chicken) were enough to make the game a lot more possible than it could've been. More in the entry from my about-to-be-defunct blog (I'm over on Pixlbit but haven't posted a new review there yet):

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?b...

My own nomination for little-known NES toughie would be After Burner. If the continue code were in the manual, or if the game just gave you a few more lives, it would be fine, but there's a sticking point I hit in the late teens and early 20's where I simply burn away my paltry stock of lives too quickly. Haven't done it yet without the continue code...