from the editorial/introduction:

"In future months, look for...'spot frequency' figures to show a dimension of the scarcity of games relative to eBay"

Sorry if I was being verbose.

We're looking for a way to incorporate this data into the database so I'd be arguing a moot point, but the reasoning behind the names was partially explained in the editorial/introduction.

I'm beginning to think everyone just bit through the editorial tootsie-pop to get to the price guide tootsie-roll-center.

Nice job!!

I'm pretty sure that my opinion will count for exactly zero here, but I just wanted to state it anyway.

It's one thing to have a database for the games, variants, etc. Also, it's wonderful to discuss NES related topics, etc.

The forums are great most of the time as well. Community spirit and all, you know.

But a price guide?

Seriously, hard to say, "no offense" on this one, but why?? Why is it even necessary?

The fine line between providing information and support in a hobby that we all care about gets crossed when an "OFFICIAL NES PRICE GUIDE" (which is what this is, sorry) come out.

Dangerous territory for sure guys.

I can't help but wonder why this was necessary?

Personally, I'm against it 100%. To discuss prices here has already been a sore subject from time to time, but to now put something like this in print?

It's a self-fulfilling cycle when you put down prices in print. Now, informed sellers will request the price you've listed, and cite your e-Zine as the source for the info.

Terrible.

Again, my opinion (and I'm welcome to it, as everyone else is), but why even do something like this. Honestly, it cheapens the site, and should make anyone reading question the motive behind it.

Peace,
Orri~

Informed sellers can already point to the public eBay auctions, which is where most (all?) of this information will come from. What this will do is knock down any higher than average selling prices. A seller can no longer point to the $50 SMB and ignore the other 20 that sold for $5. Informed buyers will be able to see what is a rip off.

This isn't "what we think the price should be" its what the market has previously set the price at. Anyways there are already price guides available with much less accuracy, such as digitpress.

I agree, its really no different than price guides elsewhere, accept its much more up to date. I think we're doing newer collecters a huge favor by preventing scams and overpaying. People should be informed of the going rates.

I'm aware of everything you're saying, I'm not new to any of this.  I simply don't believe that it's in the site's best interest to have a price guide - regardless of where the data comes from.

An informed, intelligent buyer will gather her/his information before making a purchase - this guide isn't going to change that.

Suckers will remain suckers no matter how much info is out there.

As for where the info comes from, that's also part of the issue.  People who would have sold the items for less, certainly won't now.  Those who were selling them for more aren't going to stop just because of the guide either.

All it does is make it harder to get bargains, that's all.  I don't like the fact that any site who is supposed to provide information puts out a price guide - here, digitpress, etc.  Just my opinon.

This is all based on past ebay auctions, so this isn't us making prices...this is the prices things have been selling for on ebay in the last 30 days. We just compiled it together, that is what makes it different.
~~NGD

I feel like I made the cover of playboy, only this is better. Thanks guys, great ezine. great read.

I need to contribute soon.

I understand the source.  That's just part of the problem.

Listen, I don't want to keep going in circles here.

Ebay isn't the only place to buy games or NES related items.

By using that as the source, even though it represents a huge amount of sales of NES related materials, puts a skew on the data.  Period.

When you put out a price guide - people take it as the ten commandments.  That's just how it goes.

For a long time, people used the guide at digitpress that way, and at neo-geo.com for the same reason.  Newbies to the hobby didn't have anywhere else to get a starting point for that info.

After a while, it was clear that the guides didn't reflect today's prices - just like that horrible Video Game Collector magazine (totally ridiculous.)

All I'm saying is that no matter what the intent, no matter where you get the data - the effect of putting a price guide in print is singular. People will take those to be how much they're worth, rather than a reflection of what they've been selling for.

The two are completely separate, and not even always comparable.

I'm out of the discussion at this point; nothing else I could say would matter anyway.

Peace,
Orri~

I haven't read it all, but I missed the thing I look forward to the most: Stan's Comic!  I always scroll through to read it first.  Good read so far though!

You're all assholes.

Dear guys: Thanks for taking about 30 hours out of your month to put together this eZine. The effort really shows. It's great that you are here for the community trying your best to put information out there for the masses. We really appreciate it.

Hey guys, those who are complaining don't have any idea how much work was put into this. I didn't see you puting 30+ hours of work into this. Kev, Dangevin, and all of the writers put a enourmous amount off effort into making a eZene this month a reality. I suggest that if you have something negative to post please don't post anything at all. For those that actually enjoyed the eZene please take the time to say thanks for all the hard work put into this and respect the members who give there time up for something we can all enjoy.

If you truly care, I encourage you take a moment and concider this.  

I've printed out everyone so far, in color! I have always enjoyed receiving and reading these, and I should have thrown my thanks out to all involved....

Free speech is a bitch.  I just love Stans article because if something bothers him, he isn't afraid to voice it.  and if I'm missing it because I haven't had my monthly fix I sure as heck am going to say it. 

Be sure not to get people's opinions, corrections or questioning mixed up with 'wah wah wah, I'm not happy with the e-zine.' 

I realize that, I miss it too, but Kev's given up alot of his time to do this and he hasn't been able to include everything. He's Really bummed out about some of the responses so please guys hold on the criticsm if you want another eZene. I realize your free to voice your opinions, but these guys have donated tons of time into this that they don't really have.

First off, I hope nobody took this as criticism.  I appreciate all your guys work and think the price guide is AWESOME and takes the eZine to the next level.

I get what you are saying about abbreviating the names, but I don't think the ways names are shortened are always consistent.  For example, shortening the Adventures of Bayou Billy to just Bayou Billy doesn't seem to make sense.  "Adventures of" isn't "the" or a celebrity's name.  Another example would be NES Play Action Football.  It is just listed as "Play Action Football".  However, "NES Open Golf" is listed as "NES Open Golf."  I think they should both start with "NES" in the price guide, but if you are going to remove "NES" from one, it should be removed from both.  Making them listed as what is in the DB would make it easier to find and provide a consistent naming convention.  I hope I explained this well, and like I said, I appreciate it very much.  This is all meant just as a suggestion and maybe nobody will even agree with it.

Well, I must admit, I think I have every right to complain. I made that comic in several hours over two months ago. The last time, there was an understandable problem in communication, fine. But this time? Come on man, you had my file for two months and everything. My comic only takes up a page. I don't see why you couldn't have thrown it in there. Need to get a little better in the organization, good work aside, which I already mentioned earlier in this thread. Why tell people (just guessing from what's been said) to send stuff and then apparently abitrarily select which one to put in? I personally don't agree with pricing either, for reasons already mentioned, and also because it took up potential comic AND article space.

Stan, we all wanted to see your comic, including myself. Also, i can see why you may be frustrated after forgeting to include it again.Also, as an artist I understand that your comic took alot of time and effort as well. Kev's dealing with alot lately from packing up and getting ready to move and I'm sure he's had alot on his mind. You have to remember this is not a professional newspress, people are taking time from there jobs to work on this. All I'm asking is that evryone shows respect towards him. Hopefuly It'll be in the next ezene, but for now save your complaints. I always respect your opinions and feel you should voice them freely, but please refrain from critism at this time.   

 

Well Orri, it's here and it's a fixture, so you may as well stick your fingers in your ears and go "LA LA LA LA." I've made the best product I can, first time right, and intend to do so every time.

I think part of your argument is that the 1,000 people who log in here to see our price guide will "ruin good deals," but what about the 10,000,000 people who log into to eBay to see these same prices? Even if NA grows to be as large as the IGN, it will never have a mote of impact on frequecy or sickness of real deals. All it will effect is new users here, giving our registered members the power of information so that they don't get ripped off.

In that way, I think the price guide serves to protect the community. And ripoffs do happen here. Protecting our users and adding value to each of their visits is a big goal of the e-Zine, and something that will help us grow. The people that come here are armed with free, real knowledge and are less likely to sell themselves short, or be preyed upon. Information is power, and everything we do here is to better empower our users.

Let me ask you this - until now the only information visitors had was scarcity information. Based on that, they may have gotten the completely wrong idea about value. For instance, thinking an R3 like Mike Tyson is worth less than an R7 like Ultimate League Soccer. But you never spoke up about the availability of scarcity information. In fact, the scarcity information listed here is completely subjective - in fact, we all voted on much of it. Far less scientific, with only observational data recalled from memory.

And I think it's a safe bet that two, maybe even three years will go by, and still more people will use the Zawada 6.0 edit of Etler's list as their price guide, from 1997. It's just so much more pervasive. The net is in no danger from NA.

Anyways, if you ignore it, it's your prerogative. Many people will look at the prices and dismiss them. It's the nature of a price guide. Some people gouge, some people think this old trash is worthless.

Like you, some buyers ignore freely available information - more than just being ignorant, they reject it. They overpay. Sometimes just buying on impulse, sometimes convenience, and some just have the money to spend and don't care to look or research. Some sellers feel the exact same way. Moreover, they might quick-sale things cheap or in big bundles. This guide does not affect these transactions one bit. It's for the person looking for a spot price on one game using the world's biggest marketplace interchange as a basis.

---

The other part of your argument is that there's no real price for things. You're right, this goes for commodities, stocks, and NES games too. Prices change daily with demand and supply. This guide merely regurgitates crunched numbers. Yes, people will use it as a reference. It saves them the time of researching on their own. It's the net - people are going to check on a price before making a deal, esp for things so prolific as loose NES games.

If a user wants to buy or sell a copy of Qix, for instance, one way or another they're going to need to agree on a price, and that price is seldom arbitrary when dealing online. At a flea market, maybe "everything in the box is $5" goes, and at a game store, the marked price is set and the dynamic is different, people understand what "retail price" is versus "market price." But online, you've already got the world at your fingertips.

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Kevin, I think perhaps this site has outgrown the humble e-Zine. Perhaps it's just the nature of things to de-volve into Digital Press. With threads like this, and the repro threads, where people just have nothing but stark criticism for others trying to advance the hobby/community in some small way.

Guys don't give up yet. I just think people don't reallize all the work you've put into this. I have to admit there has been alot of negativity in the forums lately witth the influx of new members. Just keep at it! Your doing a Awsome job and I'm sure most of us still agree.

When you look for Gilligan's Island, do you look in the A's? Because by your reasoning, that's where it belongs.

The "adventures" argument is ages-old. I've debated on this multiple times for years. Everyone has a different interpretation. I made a decision and applied it to all affected games. Partially because Adventures prefaces many games (Lolo series!) for which people search for the subject, instead of the proper title. In fact, none of the Lolo end labels even say "Adventures." I found that more games weren't recognized by "Adventures" than were, and partially to apply blanket logic, and partially to save space (making this guide legible and compact was also an issue) we got rid of the extraneous words wherever possible.

On a funny side note, the last conversation about the proper arrangement of names ended when I raised the point of Disney's Adventures in the Magic Kingdom. If we applied all possible rules to the title, it would wind up looking like:

"Magic Kingdom, the, Adventures in, Disney's"

This is why I'm done debating this point. It's my Zine! Mwahaha.

---

The "NES" is a bit more sticky. My interpretations was that the golf tournament is entitled the NES Open, a play on words from the US open. However I saw NES Play Action as a clarification, distinguishing it from other systems, and therefore not essential information for which one would look.

So, this was just a spot decision based on my familiarity with the titles --and is something for which I am open to input... do more people look for Play Action, or NES Play Action?

No sweat, I get where yer coming from. Keep up the good work, the eZine rocks

I always agree that these e-zines are a wonderful way to learn new information and I am always greatful for everyone who contributes.  I've never seen a direct criticism saying 'This thing sucks' although I can see how some critiques can feel like a stab in the neck.  That is always the way it is with a labor of love; the negatives you do receive will far outweigh all the positives in the world.