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About my NWC book + short comment on eZine Vol 3 issue 7-

Jul 16, 2009 at 2:26:39 AM
rbudrick (4)
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(Rob Budrick) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Awesome article, as usual, Robin.  I can't get enough of those stories (literally, hah!  Need to find more finalists to interview).  I can't believe your written competition tales are over.  It's like Xmas ended, lol.

At the end of the article you mention a site I have done on the NWC.  I actually haven't done any such site...yet...or something, though a couple things were written at request of the former owner of The Warp Zone. 

See, many folks know I am working on a book on the NWC, but it seems so overwhelming sometimes.  I often think I should just make a site that can be constantly updated instead, since I feel the book may never get done because I want to put so much into it.  Ideally, I'd have pics of every known NWC cart with ownership lineage, interviews with every finalist or others who wanted to share their stories, interviews with every staff member possible, and ideally, some interviews with Howard Phillips, Gail Tilden, M. Arakawa and others, but I fear I'll never find them in a resonable amount of time.  Additionally, I very much wanted to have a huge section on other tournaments for the book.  I wanted to make everyone involved shine because everyone involved are truly my heroes.  History demands to be let known of and to bring to light everyone's stories.

The advantage of such a site is people would come out of the woodwork.  The disavantage is that so much would be on the site, many wouldn't want the book, though I know it would NEVER make any money, as that is far from the point.  But, I'm sure all readers here see the catch-22.  Of course, many I'm sure would want the book regardless of the site being available, as I'm sure I could put some pretty exclusive stuff in it (like I did with the repro manual), and, well, some would just want it.

I dunno.  I've got a ton of info and I wish it was all in one place for all to see, but a book just means so much more for so many reasons.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind hearing everyone's thoughts on this.  I often get notes from folks asking when the book will be done, but I just never have a good answer, mostly because of the issues described above eating away at me.

On top of the reasons above, I get a ton of leads for interview subjects, but I never have time to really track the people down (most of the time, anyway).  It kinda sucks.

Funny side note...I've had the domain nwc1990.com reserved for a couple years now and some guy wrote me yesterday asking if it will be available soon, though I had just renewed it a day prior.  Strange coincidence.  I asked if he wanted to buy it just to see what he'd say, but he didn't respond.

-Rob


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I am the god of Hellfire and I bring you FIRE!


Edited: 07/16/2009 at 02:32 AM by rbudrick

Jul 16, 2009 at 4:06:05 AM
Robin Mihara (106)
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(Robin Mihara) < Bowser >
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i always thought that was you that made that site... oops. I think book is the way to go for selfish reasons

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www.ecstasyoforder.com...


Jul 16, 2009 at 4:49:36 AM
Zzap (47)
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I think a website as a supplement to a book would be a good idea. While there will always be some new information turning up, there's key things that won't change like people's recollections etc. So you could keep a website to track things like lineage of the sale of NWCs, but you could have all the meaty detail in the book. One could advertise the other and you wouldn't necessarily need to eat into book sales.

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Chunkout for iPhone, iPad and iTouch out now!
Chunkout Games: FaceBook | Web

Jul 16, 2009 at 10:13:14 AM
EVIL OVERLORD
Dain (226)
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If you need a host for the domain, I'd be happy to do it here.

Jul 16, 2009 at 10:39:28 AM
arch_8ngel (68)
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(Nathan ?) < Mario >
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Start with the website.

Then you can offer a companion book that is basically the "travel edition" of the complete website with some exclusive content.

It would let people preview the work, and could ultimately result in a great coffee table piece.

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Jul 20, 2009 at 1:29:39 PM
rbudrick (4)
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(Rob Budrick) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Thanks, Dain. Who knows, I might take you up on that. I honestly have never made a website of any kind before, so it'd be all new to me. I'm not quite sure where to start with that issue.

-Rob

-------------------------
I am the god of Hellfire and I bring you FIRE!

Jul 20, 2009 at 3:47:33 PM
EVIL OVERLORD
Dain (226)
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You've got the hard part done already (the idea), so it's just a matter of designing "what" you like in it. The rest is cake, and that's where I come in.

Jul 20, 2009 at 5:08:18 PM
rbudrick (4)
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(Rob Budrick) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Ok, but updating it and tweaking it is what I'm worried about. I'd rather not have to put that on you for various reasons (mostly because I wouldn't want to annoy the crap out of you for each little thing).

-Rob

-------------------------
I am the god of Hellfire and I bring you FIRE!

Jul 20, 2009 at 7:01:59 PM
qixmaster (129)
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Rob, I am on NA everyday and would love to help... and if it was hosted through Dain I am sure some of the other MODs wouldn't mind helping out as well. There are some very knowledgeable people here who can design the shit out of things... and trust me... something like the NWC and other competitions would not annoy the crap out of Dain

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eBay listings here

Jul 20, 2009 at 7:30:34 PM
bunnyboy (81)
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I am agreeing with zzap, definitely do a physical book first and then a website for additional content discovered after the book. Website is easy/cheap, book is far more impressive.

Jul 20, 2009 at 8:25:48 PM
EVIL OVERLORD
Dain (226)
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Yeah, you could assign a few trusted people with FTP access to help keep the content updated.

Jul 21, 2009 at 8:59:54 AM
Stan (81)
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Well, I hate to be the only negative opinion in here, but here goes. If you want to try to write the book and such, that's great. However, expect BIG legal trouble in getting it done. Nintendo still cares about some of their property, and in order to get this published you're probably going to need their okay, and they likely won't give it.

However, they might because why would they care about something almost twenty years old? The other problem is, once you have it written, how are you going to sell it? Going the vanity press route is never a good idea because few people will buy it. Why? Because ANYONE can publish that way, all you do is write it and put it together on some site like Cafepress and you're done. The problem is, there is no editing process or quality control, so you might have a handful of buyers, but it will stop there.  Even if you do get someone to edit it for you, that doesn't mean anyone will believe you necessarily, because in the end you're publishing it because you CAN anyway.  My uncle tried this for his book after failing to go the real route, and it's gone nowhere.  Has some awful syntax errors as well. 

That being said, the only real way to get a book published is either taking a chance directly with a company, or doing what everyone else does and get an agent. Going straight to the company rarely works, and if you don't have backing by Nintendo they won't even bother and they're so inundated with crap from other people you'll be lucky to hear anything, let alone within a year. An agent is just as hard, but if you want to get a proper publishing it's the only way to do it. Take it from a guy who may finally have an agent for a novel he finished after SEVEN YEARS of hard work searching for one.  It takes a hell of a lot of time, research, and dedication to find an agent and get them interested in your work.  In the end, they're just in it for the money, and if they don't see your book having any sort of even minor impact on the general book market, you can forget it.  You have to be prepared to sell yourself VERY well for something like this, because it will maybe only nab a niche market, and they don't like that.  You might have a lot of people interested, but it's hard to say, you have no way of really knowing how it will sell.  All you can do is research the current market and compare your book to others.  Problem is, as far as I know, there isn't anything really like this that's selling.

The main thing is, though, you're going to be HARD pressed to find an agent who's going to want to take a risk publishing a book that will likely sell a very small number of copies. There's just no market for it.  People are buying books less now to begin with, and as such you will probably be looking at a long time to find a proper agent, so self-publishing and selling it to people on the forum is probably your only option, but expect some negative responses or be SURE you have someone edit it and have others check it out before you release it.  But then, once they do, they might not want to buy it.  Most of this information is available for free on the internet, so personally I know I won't buy one unless you include some awesome interview DVD with it or something, because otherwise I have no reason to own a book about this, in spite of the fact that I'll always be interested in the NES and its history.  If you haven't started it yet, I don't think you know what you're in for.  Be aware that taking the time to write a book takes a lot of mettle and hard work.  And for something like this, which isn't fiction, it's going to be even more difficult.  I once was going to do a hard-copy collecting guide and had a hell of a lot done on it, but it tanked after my help backed out and left me to dry, so I eventually just made it into a better-than-Etler's list and that was that.  Anyway, I don't want to shoot you down, but these are things you need to be aware of if you're going to try this.



Edited: 07/21/2009 at 09:08 AM by Stan

Jul 21, 2009 at 9:30:34 AM
bunnyboy (81)
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(Funktastic B) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: Stan
If you want to try to write the book and such, that's great. However, expect BIG legal trouble in getting it done. Nintendo still cares about some of their property, and in order to get this published you're probably going to need their okay, and they likely won't give it. 

There is absolutely nothing Nintendo can do to stop it, because there is absolutely nothing they own in the book.  It's not like he is making illegal reproduction carts  


Originally posted by: Stan
Most of this information is available for free on the internet

Not this info.  I know Rob has been working on this for many years and has tons of photos/interviews that nobody else does.  

Of course its a huge amount of work and the self vs company published will be a hard choice, but legalities and info won' t be issues.


Jul 21, 2009 at 9:44:00 AM
arch_8ngel (68)
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(Nathan ?) < Mario >
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Stan, I'm not sure what legal grounds you think Nintendo would have to suppress a factual account of an event that happens to bear their name... It would likely be illegal to sell videos/dvds of the actual event, since those would be copyright, but you can't suppress news or editorial coverage by "copyrighting the event"


Rob, Stan DOES have a good point about making sure you get the book PROFESSIONALLY edited prior to publication (no matter what route you take). I have an "in" with Sterling Publishing (they've been bought/sold a few times in the last decade, so may have a different name now). If you believe you have the chops to write something of truly professional quality, and would like to be put in contact with a professional editor, I may be able to pull a favor.

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Edited: 07/21/2009 at 09:44 AM by arch_8ngel

Jul 21, 2009 at 11:00:55 AM
Stan (81)
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Well, I'm just going on what happened to me when I tried to write that 'guide' I mentioned above. I contacted Nintendo about it and they pretty much told me to shove it up my ass. I probably still have the letter somewhere if I can dig it out I'll post a picture of it. It's just that I doubt Nintendo would want anyone making any money off of anything dealing with their name without getting a cut from it. Maybe not, but you'll have to check with them nonetheless just so you have that covered. You can't just say they won't care and hope they won't, because that's usually when they do, and if they do you're going to be in some shit.

I wasn't just talking about professional editing, though. What I meant was any editing. Heck, I'd edit the thing for nothing, as long as my name got in it, because I've been doing that for awhile now. I meant that the self route usually doesn't get as good of results as the real route. Main issue is that in spite of what you say you did, only a real publishing company's name will say to people 'legit work'. You can put all your friend's names, interviewees names and such all over it, but if you self publish you'll still have that bit looming over your head.

Now if there is unique info in this book, cool. I might check it out then. Still, keep in mind some of the things I said above, getting a book publishing is HARD AS ALL HELL.

Jul 21, 2009 at 11:32:12 AM
bunnyboy (81)
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(Funktastic B) < Master Higgins >
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If you want their help, they will ignore you or tell you to go away. However there is nothing they can legally do about it. Doesn't matter if they care or not, want money from it, or just don't like it; they can't stop it.

Finding someone in the corporate Nintendo who actually knows what they are talking about is likely harder than writing the book

Jul 21, 2009 at 2:01:21 PM
Stan (81)
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I guess they can't, but I would still make sure all the options were researched before finally doing it. The last thing you would want on you is their legal team, regardless if their position was right or not.

Jul 21, 2009 at 3:44:09 PM
rbudrick (4)
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(Rob Budrick) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Well, Nintendo says NO to everything...they don't approve stuff they aren't going to make money on, and they will allow you to think you are doing something illegal when you are not. As for a publisher, Rolenta (Leonard Herman, if memory serves) indicated they would be interested in a DP thread some time ago. They put out incredibly high-quality product, and I honestly would not want to go with any other. From the work I've seen, Lenny is an extremely accomplished editor and publisher too. Ralph Baer's book alone is astounding.

I'm really not worried at all about Nintendo bugging me. Plenty of others have done history books on Nintendo's going-ons and I would be no different. However, there are a TON of cart photos and other photos I have not properly tagged ownership for that I worry about a bit.

You do bring up some very valid points, Stan, and I thank you for your input. Most of those things aren't anything to worry about though in this particular case.    Of course, I would have to follow up with Rolenta, as it was only a passing comment he made, but it's a bridge I'd cross when I came to it.

As a side note, I did want to include a data DVD or CD with the book with extras, such as videos and other things.  So, if anyone wants to contribute videos from the event or pics, I'd be glad to have them.

-Rob


-------------------------
I am the god of Hellfire and I bring you FIRE!


Edited: 07/21/2009 at 03:56 PM by rbudrick

Jul 21, 2009 at 5:40:09 PM
Stan (81)
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Cool, and if you need any help editing it, let me know. I've done a lot of that over the past four years, so I'd be more than happy as long as I get to see my name in there. The last book I edited was sent to the printers before they added my dang name, and it happens to be the same book I use to teach a class, damn it to hell.

Jul 22, 2009 at 2:17:17 AM
rbudrick (4)
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(Rob Budrick) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Originally posted by: Stan

Cool, and if you need any help editing it, let me know. I've done a lot of that over the past four years, so I'd be more than happy as long as I get to see my name in there. The last book I edited was sent to the printers before they added my dang name, and it happens to be the same book I use to teach a class, damn it to hell.


Thanks, Stan!

-Rob

-------------------------
I am the god of Hellfire and I bring you FIRE!

Jul 23, 2009 at 1:57:07 PM
icemn187 (1)
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There is another option you could go with, a website, with tidbits of info, maybe you could lure other winners and/or other folks with information in order to get that remaining bit of information that you want. Searching for info from the NWC always kind of leads ya to the same information. I look occasionally for info, just to see what if any new information has arose from the ashes. Reading some of these things sure brings back a lot of memories.

Oh and Rob after looking through some old emails, I don't think I ever sent you answers to some of your questions about the NWC. Guess I should try to finish that up and give you my contribution. Although I don't think my memory is near what Robin's has been.

-Steve

Jul 23, 2009 at 2:40:54 PM
rbudrick (4)
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(Rob Budrick) < Eggplant Wizard >
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No prob, Steve. There's a lot of people I forget to follow up with. It's hard to be diligent sometimes, hard as I try, and as much as I love all things NWC.   I mean, I have some incredibly good leads for a lot  of info, and I just haven't gotten around to it. 

-Rob

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I am the god of Hellfire and I bring you FIRE!


Edited: 07/23/2009 at 02:41 PM by rbudrick