Ok so what's the story on this one?  Anyone (DreamTR) have a proto of this?  I just came across this poster ad while working on my master collection log and thought I'd ask about this game. 

Seems like it would be hella fun to play... not only can you fight other players but you can pull people out of the crowd to fight.  NICE!

Quoted from Theredeye on the lost levels boards:

"War on Wheels exists. I haven't played it, but I've been told it's more or less the worst game ever."

So someone has it, but its apparently terrible.

i heard the same thing, it really sucks

Is it dumped?

DreamTR has it... he posted pics of a couple of screenshots once...

After checking out that poster, I want to play it. Sounds cool and cheesy at the same time.

I have it. It's not THAT terrible. In fact, I played it the other day after I came back from a roller derby, so it was fitting.

And...no, it has not been dumped/released.

I've been thinking about this a little bit more lately. I WANT to get this released pretty badly, but I don't have the funds for boxes/manuals/carts/labels for the thing..so if anyone has any bright ideas, wanting most of the monies for putting up the funds to get this thing produced, etc, I am all for it...If someone wants to take up the whole production and project and just needs the dump I'm not asking for the farm, but I traded an NWC to get this, so if anyone has any ideas/options please let me know, that's what held it up from being released this year...time and lack of funds to get this project on the road...

I gave this a go at the last camp out. Its difficult at first, like any NES game. Maybe it gets better. I hope at the very least.

I would for sure be down for doing the boxes/manuals to get this released. I'm sure we can work something out Jason. If someone with the techinical know how jumps on board. I'm game.

Tusk: Yes, appreciated, I hadn't contacted you back because it's just a money issue before going through with the thing, but I want it to look EXACTLY like a Jaleco release...

I played this at the campout as well. I didn't have time to figure it out, but it would be a cool thing to see released. Maybe a pre-order like Free Fall would help with funding?

e:  @ Eirk, see if you got off your ass and came and been social, you would know these things...or if you read my e-zine articles...I'm hurt. 

What exactly is hard to figure out about the game? It doesn't seem like a title that would warrant elaborate controls, but I obviously haven't played it.

How wild would it be if both WoW and BFA were released in the same calendar year? Who would have imagined?

well, in the hope that this thread doesn't turn into the last WoW thread what is your dump price??

theres alot of members since last time maybe an MTIPP style donation roundup might get closer???

another idea i had from last time this was on the table is that a number of special edition CIB spots, lets say 20, can be bought for say $200 upfront - theres $4000 and then a presale as suggested can cover the CIB build and any extra dump costs depending on your price.

it is a longshot but in doing so the SE spots can "hopefully" cover the dump and then the presale thread can atleast break even on the cost of the build.

everyone wins

From a financial standpoint, I think you'd have to do at least 2 things to make it viable:

1. You'd have to use donors as they'll cost less than 25% of new shells/pcbs.
2. You'd have to have AT LEAST a run of 250.

Even then, money split halfway between you and one other party probably wouldn't put you in a place to make it financially worth it. Using donors and having a complete sell out, the figures would look something like:

240 carts (not including 10 CE's if that were the game plan) at $55 shipped a piece (roughly $50 after paypal and shipping fees) = $12,000 brought in.

250 donors at $2 shipped a piece = $500
250 EPROMs (I think this uses CHR RAM, right?) at roughly $1 a piece shipped = $250

Boxes/manuals would range from $300 to $1,500 depending on whether you were looking to do cardboard or an alternative.

So you're talking roughly $9k - $10k profit after everything is said and done. Now, that's with a full sell out, which would likely take a significant period of time if it were to happen at all. If it were only split 2 ways (and most people other than coinheaven would have a very difficult time doing a run of this magnitude by themselves), you're talking roughly $4.5k.

I'll offer any help that you need as far as advice and recommendations, but I personally wouldn't be interested in taking on the task unless I were to purchase the actual cart.

Good luck, it would be nice to see this one out there!

problem is selling 250 is unlikely. when releasing these, i usually bank on 100-110 will be sold. so if you have to plunk down a few grand for the proto and 1600 for 250 boxes, your only looking at a few hundred dollar profit, if that.

which is not much motivation for anyone due to the time and labor it takes to make 100 games. so i really don't think this will ever see a release.

The gameplay is based around Roller Derby, so if you are familiar with the rules of Roller Derby it is not hard to figure out, but Roller Derby is not exactly user friendly the way the point system works for newcomers...

I just don't have the money to get thing out and I can't take preorders unless I know it WILL come out and it is being worked on (ala Free Fall) but others would have to step in to get the release done.

Coinheaven: Your line of work is way more profitable than this type of game, or the game that mrmark/beagle just got. I still think with them paying $2600+ on the combat game they will make a profit based on material cost but if you do that with bunnyboy/tusk material cost I doubt they will make a profit. Theirs is also a bit more labor intensive on the sac carts like yours..it's really an issue of figuring out what needs to be done with the cart and I would like to see tusk style boxes for this one and not metal but costs are pretty high on getting it out there I would "think" but again, someone else would have to take on the project..

I could sell the dump unaltered and anyone can just make it themselves but I'm afraid we're going to get into another argument over price because it is going to depend on who wants to do what with it, but that is what it is, the dump is what everyone wants to see...

Cost of game = $2,626
Cost of 100 donors = $200
Cost of 100 EPROMs = $100
Cost of Universal Game Cases, Labels, Inserts for cases, and Instruction sheets = about $500

Overhead cost project to be roughly $3,426

90 carts at $50 per unit = $4,500
Less the upfront costs without factoring in the proto = $3,700
Split 3 ways (Matt, myself, and i2a2n2) = $1,233.33
Matt and my cut = $2466.66

So, we'll actually "lose" $160.  Of course, we'll likely make some cash on the CE's, but I can't speculate how much.  What's the difference between this and releasing War on Wheels?  Well, we'd end up with an Unreleased Prototype cartridge.  See why it wouldn't be economically feasible for someone else to release WoW?  We could always do a larger run, and so could the person who spear heads the WoW project, but who knows how many you'd actually sell?

Boxes and manuals triple the costs of the packaging materials, though I do agree that they look nice.  Most people who do these sorts of releases don't have to pony up $3K up front, so they essentially can get away with putting PCBs that they didn't have to make into boxes they didn't manufacture and STILL make a profit.

Edit:  Just to confirm, I'm agreeing with Dream here.  Not sure how it reads, but just wanted to confirm what he was saying.

I like the MTIPP style donation round up idea. I wasn't even on NA at the time it occured, but I understand the concept of a fundraiser. I'm not sure how that one worked and I cannot seem to find its original thread, but maybe to increase the amount of donations you can deduct a small percentage of what a person donates from the copy of the game they'll buy. Just a suggestion.

And depending on the game needed (WoW = MMC3), $2/donor may be a low estimate?

Without the boxes and manuals notice how incredibly cheap this makes repros using donors? Ian makes ~$12 for building each CIB cart, but other repro makers get $20-25/cart. Why are you ripping him off Mark?

With that sort of donation, one person ends up with the ROM early and is able to have it available for sale before any other repro maker has a shot at it.  Also, you're talking about several thousands of dollars difference between what would likely be the asking price of this community dump as opposed to a released game with a few graphic and text changes.

The best way for this to get released (from a purely financial standpoint) is by the owner of the cartridge.  If the cost to purchase the cartridge doesn't make it feasible to come close to breaking even on a release, it's likely to not get a release.

A community dump would be a great way as well.  The problem with that again is the price.  In order for it to be worth it to the person who owns the unreleased game to dump it, the cost would be so high that it would tough to round up that sort of cash.

It's a tough situation, but I'd love to see this release become a reality.

You def can not back on selling 250 copies, in fact your probably more likely to sell about 150 or so. I think Happy Camper has sold more than any new release NES game to date (not counting NWC) and I would think WoW would sell around that same #. I think I have sold like 180 Happy Campers or so. The only other option is to charge more than $55 bucks each, but when you do that a lot of folks will not want to pony up anymore money.

I played the game at last years campout, and I was terrible at it. Keep in mind though that I had drank a few tasty beverages before hand....
~~NGD

Let me know the next time a repro maker gets a guaranteed $1.2k check for NES repros

I do all of the chip removal and programming, Ian just helps me out with the rewiring.  He doesn't worry about any of the CI aspect of the release, Matt and I take care of that as well.  Repro makers also don't likely "make" $20-$25 when you factor in parts and shipping costs.  I'd venture to say they likely make closer to $15, though I'm speculating.  He's the champ, and I absolutely couldn't do it without him, but I think it's a fair cut.

Also, being one of the few guys around releasing my actual numbers, coupled with the fact that I consider you a friend, why the hate?

I loved playing this game at the campout last year.. I hope to one day see a release but I understand the difficulty with such a task.. Maybe Dream can bring it to the campout again this year, drum up some more hype for it. Ok, I just wanna play it again..

The dump price I need is less than the cost of the purchase of the actual cart of the Combat game, nothing changed on the ROM, etc...

I wish SNES/Genesis repro stuff was easy, or Game Boy...I have a laundry list of stuff we could get released but schedule/time/money on my end just no way to make any of it happen....

Sorry that wasn't an insult, I shoulda used more smileys! I know you aren't ripping him off and he would probably do it for less.

Using the same numbers from above, repro makers would easily clear $20 on a $27 game. Donor $2-3, EPROMs $1-4, label $1. Thats $4-8 of parts for $19-23 of profit on the typical $27 selling price. Shipping might be $1/cart for everything all together when bought in bulk/lots. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, just surprised the price hasn't gone down as more people are building them using the same old parts.