I think Wata cases are absolutely amazing and all other cases are inferior. End of story.

Well, yes. You're not grading what could have been, you're grading reality. 

Yes, you have an uncirculated game, but it was damaged. This will be more evident when compared to the same uncirculated game, that isnt damaged.

That's why I like VGA more, they tend to be super anal about the small things, and I'm an anal collector.

Your case scenario, one game gets a lil scuffed in the box, another doesnt. Wata grades these as 9.8 A++ and 9.8 A+

VGA looks at them says 85+ and 90+. Without even knowing the situation, you know something is different wih the VGA copies where as the Wata version appears as a statistical anomoly. 

If you dont care about the small stuff, then Wata is definitely more appealing for not having to worry so much about wrap condition. 

If youre looking for mint of the mint, VGA doesn't f around. 

And dont get me wrong, I've been heartbroken over factor's I couldnt control either. I once had gem mint PS1 games grade 85+ because the staples, which could be seen under the clear case, were crooked on the instruction booklet, haha. That may sound insane to you, but we're talking about collecting in a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche hobby. It def gets insane. 

They are definitely tough on ps1

That's interesting and was definitely how it was perceived, the only game I ever graded was Waynes World for NES and I was crestfallen when it got an 85 because I knew once I would try to sell it I would have a hard time without the gold stamp and that's exactly what happened, when I shopped it on the bay I couldnt even get offers close to my asking price even though my copy's "twin" that someone else bought and flipped (both came from the same source) got a 90 and went for several hundred more, this was all over the span of like 8 months to a year.  I eventually withdrew it.  Now, my copy certainly deserved its 85 status but I do wonder if even just getting the + would have enabled me to sell it back then.     (For the record, I sold it for less than my original asking price face-to-face to a private buyer - who then cracked opened VGA's case with his bare hands, lol)


 

That's really interesting to hear. I had always assumed the when you send it any kind of game, they are purely judging either the box / case condition, plus the cellophane. Did you receive the grading report that specifically mentioned the staples on the manual? Would a PS2 cover art insert being off centered also affect grade then?

VGA is actually very consistent once you know the scale, and I like how it's one all-encompassing grade. My biggest problem with WATA is exactly how Jone put it: 9.6 A or 9.4 A+? I understand the rationale of splitting up the box and wrap grade, but it really is one cohesive unit and I like that VGA grades it as such. I know that a VGA 90 is damn near perfect in every way. To achieve that I guess I would need a 9.6 A++? Does that sound accurate? Also, the WATA case is still hideous.

Between the two grading scales I prefer WATA. I like the VGA scale a little better on the ultra high end (you know when you buy a 90+ you are getting a game in amazing condition), but I've paid a premium a number of times for VGA 85+s that ended up arriving with a big dent or a crease in one corner. And I've seen some 80+s/85s that look surprisingly nice. So I sometimes feel stuck trying to decide if I want to pay the premium for an 85+ when there's a chance I'll like the way the 85 looks more. With WATA, a 7.0 looks worse to me than an 8.0 which looks worse than a 9.0 and there's not suddenly some grade halfway along the way where after which price values triple. With WATA I feel more confident that I'm getting a game that will look roughly the way I'm expecting. My complaint with the WATA scale is that a lot of sealed games seem to grade 7.5-9.8 and I wish they used the entire scale more. But as someone mentioned maybe that's because people are sending their best games in first. Also I think WATA should use different color labels to differentiate between sealed and CIB, and genesis clamshells/ games with plastic cases should have different grading standards than cardboard, but now i'm nitpicking. WATA scale for me for sure though.

VGA is easier to store and take up less space. The cases themselves I used to like the look of the VGA cases a lot better. But I MUCH prefer the WATA cases because they are tamper proof. I'll take that over aesthetics. But the more WATA cases I get in the more I find myself liking the look of the WATA cases even though I initially didn't. I still really like the look of the VGA cases also, but the more I get used to WATA cases, the more I like the way they look too and am almost starting to prefer them.

If a Wata 9.6 A and 9.4 A++ both grade at a VGA 85 I'm not sure how the one-true-grade helps you distinguish between the two. Now you have two games with slightly different problems to different people at the same number. Yeah a 90 is better and 80 is worse but it doesn't fix the 9.4 A++ vs. 9.6 A question.

What i actually like of the 2d wata cases is that if displayed properly, the first thing you see is the game art and NOT the grade. To me this is a plus (im still rigourous in the grades i want, but when i look at one of my piece im proud to own the game first and not the grade). I may be the only one this way though.

I'm a GBA collector, and I'm still working it out. I suspect that over time I'll prefer each for different use cases. Right now though, I absolutely hate the shape of the WATA boxes as they aren't stackable. (Even the 2d ones aren't ideal for stacking). I'm actually hesitant to get any more than the one I own, because of this. I am still actively buying VGA Gold games, and continue to plan to do so for the foreseeable future. I have yet to grade my own sealed games, and am hesitant to do so, because the choice isn't clear. If someone put a gun to my head and said pick, I'd probably go with VGA for now, simply because that's mostly what I have, and the weird shape of the WATA cases, but if you ask me in a week, I could give a different answer.

Benefits to WATA:
- Heritage tie-in (right now this doesn't matter as I'm not selling my games, but it's certainly not a bad thing)
- a bit more tamper resistant (allegedly, but I believe it)
- Can grade unsealed games (There are some games I've never seen sealed, and are rare enough I think they are worth grading. VGA isn't an option here.)
- More detailed grades

Benefits to VGA:
- They are the Gold standard (no pun intended.. actually pun kinda intended)
- Better case shape
- Simpler to understand (Gold and silver was a really good idea)
- More systems available

So, I'll probably keep buying Gold VGA games, and am likely to send my best condition games to VGA. Beyond that I don't know.

This all said, this doesn't actually answer the poll question. It's specifically about the scale. I like the 1-10 scale, better than 0-100, just because it's simpler, and the 100 point scale isn't used in a nuanced way, but it's not enough of a preference to stop me from having a slight actual preference for VGA (at this time). This becomes more and more important the closer to perfection you get, and the more valuable the title. IE: I think this detailed numbering and grading system was needed to get to a $100k+ Super Mario price.

It boils down to seal vs. box for me.

i think the WATA cases look ridiculous

If you're that condition-specific, you basically need to look at photos extra carefully and ask for sellers for any specifics. This goes for any graded games from any grading company. And lastly, sometimes you just have to take a risk, because seller photos and their description can be slightly off the mark, whether intentional or unintentional.

 

I've sent in hundreds of games to WATA, and maybe a handful didn't get either the exact grade I was expecting or a level off. Conversely, I've purchased maybe 20 VGA games to convert, and also had a handful where I was quite surprised as condition based on the grade. I just bought an 85+ Goldeneye, for example, that had a giant crease across the top. If you're not used to the VGA, I think WATA's scale is more consistent, allowing for the fact nothing will ever be fully consistent because we're human.

I also completely disagree with VGA dinging for all stickers and nearly imperceptible signs of stickers being removed. I don't think a KayBee sticker from 1991 in the corner of the box should hurt value, in fact I'd argue the opposite.

Regarding look, I have a collection of black box in WATA under lighting I’ll post later. I think it looks great. 

Whichever one can grade my sealed creatom is the one I'll like.

Marking it down is the right call. You are adding garbage to a game, complete with sticky goo. Ask how CGC would grade a comic with a sticker.

As long as there are games with no stickers, the ones with them must be marked down, because clearly reality indicates they are not equal. One obstructs the box, art and introduces a foreign addition to a factory made item. 
 

WATA is kind of a goofy name so I went with VGA.

So the vote is almost 50/50 with a slight edge to Wata. Interesting, good to see that each side is perceived to have certain values over the other.

Lots of interesting topics covered in here too and since this is now a VGA / Wata thread, here's some of my .02:

1) Stickers - Definitely a flaw. Especially R-Zone security stickers, those are ugly an an absolute bitch to remove. A price sticker like KB? As long as it isn't covering the title / artwork I can maybe let that slide. I personally don't want it but can understand why some may like it. But remember, lots of games are also discounted on clearance and may have the old price crossed out in red pen. And using red pen on the box writes on the cello which can write on the box (if pressed hard) and becomes damage to the box.

2) VGA to Wata Crossovers - Maybe I'll make a thread on that eventually, more to come. The problem is that an 85+ could have box dings with pristine wrap or a perfect box with wrap flaws like corner pokes / tears. Since the wrap appears to be more of an afterthought on the Wata scale, it is to be expected that some would crossover better than others. But you can still make rules of thumb about where games *should* map to, roughly speaking.

3) Higher graded stuff first - I disagree completely. People are sending in absolutely trashed items to Wata, hence why they're so damn backed up. The way grading should work, or WILL work in due time, is that people decide what is worth grading and only sub the stuff worth grading. Then the beat stuff stays "raw" since the raw game holds more value (based on theoretical speculating of grade, like buying an unopened card pack speculating what is inside). Unless something is absurdly rare, then you may want to grade regardless of condition. Or unless it is just sentimental value to you, like a Mario 3 you've had for years and just want to grade and protect. But from the investment / flipping side which is absolutely out of control now, the low grade copies just won't hold up long term. And eventually the market will realize that and stop subbing all of those items. These aren't 80 year old comics they're 30 year old games and a 1.5 grade is nothing to get excited about.

I'm surprised ot's that close sonce Wata provide way more (IMO) for the same price..

totally on board with all of that
 

I really like certain price stickers.  Kaybee is one that will sometimes set me over the edge to buy a game.  So I agree with ExplodedHamster that it shouldn't be blanket dinged no matter the sticker or placement.  Also, this might sound crazy, but I think as reseals become a bigger thing and more and more of them get removed over time, they might actually bring a premium down the road. 

It's kinda similar to date stamps on comics. I love them, as it gives it some provenance. I have a sealed SMB that has some sort of US Military Store sticker on it, which I always thought was interesting. It depends though, if it's some ginormous sticker that covers art, etc, it can certainly detract. 

 

Youre confusing prefernce for condition. You can enjoy stickers and the "authentic feel" they give a game, but you are not improving its original condition, which is all graders are and should be looking at.

I understand what you are saying and I do think its just my preference regarding the stickers.  That said, grading is subjective and preference without a doubt plays a role.  No one ever created a "grading standard" without preference.   That's why some grading companies are more strict on certain defects while others are looser. Same could be said about price stickers.   It's more about how much a defect should impact the grade and no so much about whether or not it should. 

 

I'm a big fan of some date stamps too.  I love the red date stamps found on Green River Pedigree examples but I can't stand the obtrusive Bonnett's Book Store stamps.    I'd be curious to check out your SMB if you don't mind sharing.