I know - it's been discussed on the Donkey Kong Jr. Math thread - but I did like all the discussion and different points of view so I figured I would talk about it on a thread specific to CIB - beauty certainly is in the eye of the beholder and it is apparent that collectors all have their own ideas about what constitues any given grade on a "number scale" - I, for the most part, collect sealed games - unless one comes along that I think I will never come across sealed - a good example would be the DK Math - as in ANY hobby, exceptions to "condition" are never made for an item - for example, just because someone owns an Action Comics #1 doesn't mean a 5.0 copy would get a 7.0 simply because of it's age or rarity - it is what it is - I can say without hesitation that most of my VGA 80 and up games would rate at least a 9.0 on a CIB scale (85 and up without a doubt) - the Ninja Kid listed below that I purchased from Bronty would be considered a 9+ for CIB - there is no way that any game with imperfections could/should be considered in that condition (or even an 8 IMO)- since there is no one independent source on how CIB is graded, discussion on these topics in this forum are good for the hobby and collecting/gaming community as a whole

I think there should just be two scales, one for people who collect VGA CIBs and one for those who don't. Because the two parties will never agree no matter what. And since the "average" collector doesn't collect VGA CIBs, their opinion would be right more often then not.

I mean if I make a FS thread and I have an item that would be considered a 7 by the MAJORITY of the population that would buy it, then why would I list it as a 4 because a select few think that's where it belongs? Then I'll have people lowball the shit out of me.

From a selling point of view, that makes sense, or maybe even two scales for extremely picky/anal CIB's and the rest of the CIB collectors who make up the majority - or maybe for the rare items that somebody might be selling, just show photos and let the buyer decide ;P - but the photo above is simply a CIB - it is exactly what it shows - I wonder what the majority of CIB collectors would rate that game?

How about this, you extremely anal guys let VGA rate your CIBs since you want a uniform scale anyway.  Then the rest of us will understand that there is a bit of play in individual numbers and will let the "proof be in the pudding".

And on my scale, that'd be a 9.75+ that I'd never ever worry about upgrading again and probably even Minty enough that I'd grab a lower condition CIB if it were a game that I wanted to play frequently.

I don't really want to hear the opinion of VGA enthusiasts in this thread, I want to hear the opinions of people like WrldStrnMan, Lurchzilla, swovlinst, Dream and others who have actively pursued CIB sets across multiple platforms.  If we only have pro-VGA people responding in this thread, obviously the position will be skewed.

If you say that "nothing with imperfections" should be graded as an "8"...what reduced the grade to an "8" if not imperfections of some sort?

Just checking at your pics I'd say it's between 9 and 9.5 no problem, although I couldn't tell since it's not in my hands. If the picky meisters at VGA graded it 85+, it's probably a bit over 9 in reality.

Box looks REALLY good by the way, perhaps most defects noted are inside the box?

Fair enough - I do have thousands of CIB's covering most systems so I thought I would just offer another view or opinion on things - as I stated above, I like the discussion from one end of the spectrum to the other so that's why I posted (insert broken heart icon)

I suppose I wasn't clear on that Arch - what I meant is a game with imperfections such as those seen on the DK would not be an 8 (this is of course my opinion and I'm sure there are others that would disagree)

I didn't mean to discredit your opinion, rather I meant I did not want to hear "only" VGA enthusiasts as I heard plenty of that in the last theard.

You also say you have thousands of CIBs but classify yourself as "I, for the most part, collect sealed games" in your initial post.  So I guess you have even more than thousands of sealed games?

And lastly, you make the interesting point that "as in any hobby, exceptions to condition are never made for an item", as it relates to rarity.  I do agree with that statement, but ironically enough, your justification for having Ninja Kid is that you never may come across a sealed one, which means you are making an exception to your collection based on an item's rarity. 

So it would be safe to assume that your Ninja Kid would only be a place holder until you found a sealed one, right?  To most of us CIB guys, that would be the end-all-be-all and would never leave the collection period.  Hence our differing viewpoints...

Hmmm - I couldn't tell you right off hand whether I have more sealed than CIB's - I know that there was a time that I had many more CIB's, but in the past few years, I've grown more and more towards the sealed copies, simply because of condition - and regarding Ninja Kid, yes, if I ever come across a sealed one, I would replace it unless it showed signifigant damage (bending to the box, frayed corners etc.) - otherwise I would still keep my "more" mint version shown above

it would be called a 9.5 or 10 per the scales that get thrown around here, without question.   the box and contents are absolutely gorgeous - bought this from sawtooth homebum who had a lot of really nice CIBs.

for VGA pretty much the highest CIB grade you're going to get is a 85+ - that's a game that looks like you just tore the wrapper off, pretty much.  

Keep in mind that a sealed 85+ is a game where you basically can't see any flaws.    So, this cib likewise is pretty much flawless.    you have to look pretty hard and the box when in hand not in the vga case, was mirror smooth and looked like it was printed yesterday.   Would it be humanly possible for the box to be ever ever so slightly nicer?  Sure, and that's what the rest of the grade scale is for.   But its as nice a cib as you will pretty much ever see.

Seriously, do you really know what you're talking about?
Most debaters in the last thread were not pro-VGA in majority, maybe you just don't know what other collectors are actually thinking.

Also, WHO are you to claim that some people must not discuss in a thread???
Anybody has the right to voice their opinion in any thread. Thread aren't structured to please your own thoughts on a subject.

Ahhhhhh, so 90 and up would be harder to acquire for CIB than a sealed game? Perhaps because of the shrinkwrap that is missing and the folded spine on top flap?

Funny thing is that I have a sticker sealed game that received a 90+ grade, and it looks just like this Ninja Kid!

Obviously you missed one of the Jonas Decrees.   I'm hoping they get published into a compendium format for us to all enjoy soon; it would be so nice to have them all handy in one place!

I would say that's a fair statement, for sure.   Unless you start actually opening mint sealeds to get CIB 90s, which would be a little nuts.

I don't know if I have a complete opinion about this topic, but here is one observation:

Sealed games - Only have to be graded based upon box and shrink.
CIB games - Have to grade box, cart, instruction manual, extra paperwork, etc. A lot more to consider.

I know it sounds a little crazy, but for CIB, how about just grading the box only? That's the meat and potatoes anyway, right? I mean, the carts are pretty common relatively speaking, and are usually in good shape.

Again, just brainstorming here

I've been talked out of a "generally agreed upon" grading system many times by many seasoned people.

The magic bullet argument is that we have pictures, and high res cameras, and fast connections. There's no need to send the equivalent of a text message to sell an item worth hundreds, when we can produce perfect larger-than-life photos instantly and transmit them almost as fast.

Nothing will prevent someone from hiding flaws if they're going to hide flaws in a picture. These are the same people that will inflate a grade.

Numbers are really irrelevant and for the lazy.

If you want to sell a game worth hundreds, make an investment in a simple camera and get down to business.

Can't argue with the camera comment^^ I'm sure we've all been the victim of "wow, this thing looked a lot better in the photo (or worse sometimes

Can we sticky this somewhere?  I mean seriously, this is about the best quote I've read in 6 months.

That's all I needed to hear.  So "as nice a cib as you will pretty much ever see" is only a "bit over a 9".  Which means a 10 (or even a mid 9) is pretty much a figment of your imagination, or maybe if we all pooled our collections together we might have a one in a million shot at seeing something close to a 10.  That explains it all.  You grade on an absolute scale based on what a game could be in theory, I grade on a practical scale based on what I've seen for sale, what I've collected, and what I've resold. 

That particular sticker sealed game had no flap crease however, and the Ninja Kid does. It HAS to have been opened at least once for the internal parts to be graded. That's enough to mark it down at least a .5 in my book but grade pretty harshly.

I agree that practicality does not really factor in here.  However, what you have to realize is that in most hobbies that have some sort of grading service, it is impossible to get a perfect score on an item unless it was received directly from the factory at the grading center.  I'm going off of what I've heard about CGC, but as far as I'm aware you can have the most perfect-looking copy in the world, but the fact that it's been handled (by you, by your local comic shop) automatically caps its potential at something like a 9.4.  Only uncirculated copies sent straight to CGC from the printing line will every have a chance at a 10 (and I have no idea how you would even go about arranging that). 

So where does that leave your average collector?  Well, basically 9.4 becomes the new 10.  A 9.4 is a copy that never needs to be upgraded and it will still have tremendous value to a collector.  However, to accommodate those who want something that is for all intents and purposes "perfect", there is that extra .6 that can be acquired by going through the steps outlined above.  As video games are never sold unsealed, I would say the only way that you could acquire a perfect 10 CIB would be to send in a sealed copy and have them remove the wrap and grade it.  I'm honestly surprised that there have been sealed games that have been graded at 100 that were not removed directly from a sealed case, as this would seem to go against general grading-industry standards.

Personally, I'm never going to send in a CIB to be graded.  Why bother grading a game that's "used".  I'd much rather save up for a game that I love sealed to have graded than trying to have track down a perfect mint CIB to send in.  It just seems like way too much work on the CIB side of things.

you're getting tiresome.   nowhere did I say it was "a bit over 9."   I said it was 9.5 or 10 according to the scale generally thrown around.   read my post.

as for grading based on what Jonas has seen, it seems to me that everyone that isn't Jonas might have a little trouble knowing exactly what *you've* seen.   Of course, your method is ingenious in that by definition you can never be wrong.

Likewise.  Re-read who I quoted, I quoted you as saying it basically the best it could be and then quoted Guillavoie as saying it's a bit over a 9. 

I never said that I'm never wrong, rather I'm saying your definition is no more "right" than mine.  It is highly subjective, and there is already an "authority" in VGA that will eliminate any confusion.  So why are we even continuing to go in circles...

What do you call a deer with no eyes?