I want to discuss this with everyone, as I think it's something we should all be concerned about. The blue version Spiritual Warfare is likely a hoax, IMO. The reasoning for this is that a seller (billmarioman) in 2005/2006 came out with sets of brand new boxes (unfolded), manuals and labels for most/all of the Wisdom Tree games. Spiritual Warfare was included in this lot, allowing anyone with a brand new label to create a blue version (there's even a set on ebay as of this writing). For this very reason, I've decided to label this game as unconfirmed and will remain unconfirmed permanently. Even opening a sealed copy isn't proof, especially on unlicensed games. I really don't want people to get burned, which is why I'm taking precautions.

Mike (michiganfan2) is the only person with a blue Spiritual Warfare, and he got it without realizing what it was. In fact, at that time, no one else knew it existed AFAIK. Does this make it any less a hoax? Not in my opinion, and I think we should be very leary (especially now) of spending a lot of money on something that can be created quite easily. Scammers read forums, and if they put two and two together, they'll eventually buy up those labels, create blue carts, and make a killing, laughing all the way to the bank.

Other titles we should be on the lookout for, regarding scammers, are Sunday Funday (blue), Joshua (blue), Exodus (blue), and Bible Buffet (blue). All of the labels for these are readily available. Because all of those labels are now in circulation, we can likely never truly confirm their existence.

Thoughts? Opinions? Am I full of shit?

-Dain

I think you make a very good point. But i still believe that blue spiritual warfare exisits. I seen one on ebay long before these labels started showing up, but that doesnt mean it was legit. IMO though I believe it does exist.

I'm concerned about this too, and especially regarding later era CD/WT games. It's readily apparent that they ran out of blue cases towards the end of their NES-producing days. You can tell this from the fact that their last few releases to trickle out the door are all black-only.

The other problem I see is with the ease of creating your own copy: just steam off the front label of some blue cart, slap on your new Spiritual Warfare label and throw the SW PCB inside the cart and TA-DA: you've got a blue SW that is virtually impossible to disprove.

This is also why I was so hesitant to believe Hounder (or whoever it was) that started finding all these unknown color variations after some people were 10 YEARS into this hobby without ever seeing hide nor hear of such items.

The bright side of all this Color Dreams variant madness,I guess, is: if you don't have it, don't fret... just create your own.

Ah, but the difference is that Hounder was finding BLACK variations. He found them after opening sealed copies, and at least one was confirmed by Michiganfan2 shortly thereafter when he opened his sealed copy. It's quite possible that they produced the black variants, but went under before they could get them sold, which would explain why a black version only turns up in sealed copies. With blue variants, it's harder to understand how they could be undiscovered for over 10 years.

Dain I agree and actually need to talk to you about this in fact. I think the blue copies are a hoax as well. I guess we will never really know.

All the black copies of games that keep showing up came from one seller, Mr. It! I think it was. But they all have one thing that was unique to them. All the sealed copies had a small Micro Genius sticker on the bottom left side of the box. If it has that sticker then it is a black version. I assume those games were suppose to be sent to Europe cause that is where Mirco Genius distributed NES games. They were either forgot on a shipment or left by accident. Either way all these black copies are 99% most likely suppose to be Euro titles, but as with most unlicensed games there isn't a difference except for the box and manuals sometimes.
~~NGD

I haven't seen this auction. Anyone got the link handy?
~~NGD

I personally think the Color Dreams black carts are legit, as they have the Micro Genius stickers on them, and we haven't seen labels for sale (at least I haven't). But the Wisdom Tree games I personally think are non-existent.

The link to the label auction is here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Wisdom...3QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-Dain

I have no doubt that the micro genius copies being black is legit. The micro genius seller didn't even know about the differences or try to use them to his advantage at all. I agree re difficulties w/blue.

wisdom tree is still a operational company..If someone were to write them and get to know one of the people in charge im sure they could tell if they ever used blue carts for any of the games...And if you had a blue cart and did put a new label on the cart and put the board in the game and put it in a new box didnt you kind of actuall make a real blue copy..its kind of like you manufacutred the cart at home instead of it being made there...Im sure wisdom tree just bought the boards, carts, labels and boxes put them together and sold them...so it would be like a do it at home project

I remember this game came in a lot of NES carts that I found at the local flea market this past spring/summer. I would doubt that someone would go through the trouble of making it and then selling it for pennies.

That would lead some to conclude that I created the game myself. I want eveyone to know that I wouldn't stake my reputation that I have built on one questionable game. I've seen others go down in flames for lying/cheating/stealing and those of you who know me know that's not how I work.

For obvious reasons, I certainly hope it's real. But like Dain said, with these labels being sold, there is no way to verify it one way or the other.

As far as the black Micro Genius carts that were found this summer. I have no doubt that these are legit. The sealed ones that have been opened are mint inside. The Mico Genius stickers on some are starting to get stained from the sticky backing. Boxes have shelf wear. Plus there have other cases of new old stock being discovered and then sold off. Such as Cheetahmen II and the Alladin sets. Now, if someone could find that case of NTSC Stadium Evenets.

The trouble is, what if it is official, but it's only a one shot deal, or maybe just a couple of blue carts they had lying around the factory and decided to throw into the mix? Do we count them and them rate them at R10? The reason I ask is because it could easily be possible. Personal anecdote: In 2003 I saw an auction on eBay with a blue King of Kings (family label). I saved the pic because I thought it was interesting at the time, but didn't realize it was so rare/one of a kind. The auction went for peanuts (to someone else, not me) and the pic got eventually lost/deleted from my old PC's HD. So now I'm in a situation where I know damn well what I saw, but I have no evidence to back me up, and no one else on the planet can corroborate my story above. All I've got is "I saw it, just trust me." Now, I've been scouring eBay on and off for going on 4 years for another blue king of kings, but have never seen one. It seems to be a one-off deal, which would put it in exactly the same category as that blue Spiritual Warfare.

The big question is: do these one off deals "count"? If so, more will eventually turn up because everyone will "need" one to finish their set, and their just too easy to make yourself.

It's a difficult situation with no real cut and dry answer; either we count Blue SW or we don't. What's the consensus going to be?

The real tough thing with these Wisdom Tree games is the market they were sold to. They went to an entirely different household with completely different demographics. The owners of these were not hardcore gamers, just the opposite. And I can safely say very few of us ever bought these "at release." And since they were unlicensed they saw no coverage in NP so many people didn't even know they existed until after the whole thing was said and done.

The ones making it to the market now are I'm sure complete happenstance...The normal life of a Nintendo cart is: Parent buys for kid, kid gets bored and shelves it, sold at yard sale to another kid, then traded to a flea market, and so on. In this case, a blue King of Kings or blue Spiritual Warfare is not only in league with some of the absolute worst and most divinely uninspiring (pardon the pun) games, but sold to a market that largely would own no other games aside from SMB/DH and maybe, if the kid was lucky, Sesame Street 1-2-3. I bet a lot of these were just plain thrown out. I know people who simply chucked their old 2600's simply assuming they didn't work anymore...the irony is, I bet they have worn out at least two PS2's...but I digress

That's really the point of this thread, though I didn't exactly come right out and say it. I'd like a community vote:

All in favor of adding blue (insert Wisdom Tree title here) for every Wisdom Tree game with the caveat that it could be a hoax, a rarity of 0 (indeterminable), and keeping it as "unconfirmed" indefinitely, say "Aye".

All opposed say "Nay."

My vote: "Aye"

I say we keep the rarity at 0, but it has been confirmed IMO, because Mike got his for next to nothing at a flea market. Had he bought it online after the labels went up for sal, it would've been a grey area, but because at least one is known to legitimately exist, I say we confirm it.

I would almost suggest we add a new category called HOAX to the database. Then add all the games that fit into this category like the Wisom Tree titles, maybe the solid white Dusty Diamond and so many other titles that we "hear" about but never seem to find. Maybe it would put to bed a few of the rumors so to speak and mighe even confirm a few on down the road. Thoughts?? But if we do decide to add them as a confirmed game, I suggest we put in the notes from NA that possibility that the games could be faked very easily.
~~NGD

I like Jason's idea! I would put all blue Wisdom Tree in as hoax (other than Bible Adventure's of course.) You know what though, the thread of Color Dreams variants on NES FORUMS has a blue Bible Buffet as confirmed in it. NA doesn't list that one so I wonder if that one is faked or made up as well?? I think Mike's is most likely the best chance at a real one of Spiritual Warfare. However, some kid could easily make a blue Spiritual Warfare with the parts (only takes 3) and then got bored with his NES collection and sold/traded it off for something more modern and the "home brew" found it's way to that market where Mike bought it. Just never going to know unless more show up. If they look too new to be true then odds are someone has a fun little hobby going.

If that was the case the screws would probably be a little stripped...novice playing around gets a random screwdriver and starts playing with carts. Generally they wouldn't take much care to make it "look the part..."

The Bible Buffet was found to be a hoax, Hounder just never changed the thread to reflect his findings. It was somebody lieing over at DP if I remember correctly.
~~NGD

Yeah, someone had claimed they had found or had a blue Bible Buffet and I never did get a chance to change it. Also, as for the blue Spiritual Warfare, it does have a different title screen from the black cart version if I remember right. Maybe that will help us decide on the issue.

Also, NGD, I can't login into nesforums. Keeps saying I'm entering the wrong password :-/

The blue SW does NOT have a differet title screen. I would not want that rumor to get started. It is a normal V6.0 game which I belive (but don'y currently own) exsists in black as well.

Also, I like Jason's idea of the Hoax Section. We could add the white end label Dr. Mario and Shooting Range to that list as well.

Ok. Thanks for the correction. For some reason, I remember you saying that it had a different screen title and it was V6.1. I will have to change that.

I like the idea of a hoax section, but that's a strong word. You've got to have a ? after it if you're going to use that word. So I'm voting for a "hoax?" category.

This is the situation, as I see it, 2 years from now if we count the blue SW (which I believe to be legit, but a one-off deal). The number of fake blue SW's will slowly grow all because of one legit one. There'll be like 50 circulating in our little hobby, of which 1 will be real, 49, will be fake, and all 50 will be indistinguishable from the next. That's what I want to avoid, having a whole category of variants that exist, just because we have the ability to "make" them.

Hoax is kind of a strong word. But I really can't think of another word to use. I hate the fact that somebody could be out there making fakes. I guess people need to start opening sealed copies so we can find out :-/

But I don't WANNA open my sealed copy! It's been killing me since this whole convo started.

Alternate words:

Crap? (not as severe as Bullshit, but still inspired by Penn and Teller) (also: Bull; B.S.)
Humbug? (Again, thanks P&T)
Prank (same idea, less severe than Hoax)
Fabrication (although it implies production, it still means "lie" but the double entendre is glib)
Tall Tale/Fairy Tale (appropriate, but cute)
Bunk (as in, to debunk, this is the least severe of all of these)