It seems like he basically created a circuit that is like the circuits inside a handheld stungun. You can do that with a 5v source and build up a charge with an oscillator and step up the output voltage and soon enough as the capacitor builds up a charge to a define level (without going over the capacity of the capacitor) and then feed that output electricity back to the console. You can just as well do the same with a handheld stun gun. It's hard to predict exactly how long but 10 to 15 seconds will likely be enough to kill the chips on the console.

All the modern chips are susceptible to being destroyed this way. Basically, the gentleman created a electric stun gun cartridge.





 

How many NES units that are still around in functioning order is unknown. Considering there are still millions of people using emulators and a number of them still are interested in using the real consoles, that can still make for a challenging amount of supply to demand. 

PS: The total amount of NES that are out there is probably less than 10% of the original production. There maybe only 25% of that amount that is in perfect functioning order. The remaining 75% of the 10% of the original production run has either a chip failure or some issues with cartridge slot mechanism needing some work or something. I would estimated that about 90% of the consoles had been ground up and in the land fill as shredded up land fill.



 

^Wildstar, have you ever met Guntz? You two might get along  

I have intricate knowledge of how this was made and how it operates I've been sworn to secrecy though :X

I will tell you wildstar that your previous estimations of the output voltage are off by at least a factor of -4x.

Perhaps the output voltage isn't nearly that high. It only needs to be a little bit above the max voltage to kill the CPU and PPU on the console. I'm just giving an example of how you can instantly kill the console with electricity. The chips are 5v tolerant chips. If you hit chips with over 7.0v, it's likely you'll be causing damage if not destroying the chips. 7.0v is part of the maximum voltage specifications of the 65c02s chip. The PPU and CPU uses a 65c02 core with additional custom on-die components. Again, 10v would kill the chips.

Remember, it's the output circuit that is fed to the console. 

http://www.westerndesigncenter.co...

If I recall correctly, Nintendo used a customized version of a Rockwell 65c02 (Rockwell was a licensee of WDC), so Rockwell datasheet specs would be closer to the PPU/CPU.
http://archive.6502.org/datasheet...

Page 15. So a suppoly voltage at 7.5v and higher is over voltage tolerance of these chips. At that point, these chips would be getting damage and eventually be dead. 

7.3v is the specified maximum. The data and address lines for these chips are that of the operating voltage.







 

Wildstar: 50v (prior post) * -4 = -200V

That's closer to the output.

Reversing polarity.... hmmm. 


 

There was no guarantee that NES consoles would last 30 years, and Nintendo certainly didn't expect them to do so. Any that survive to this day are essentially gravy.

As I said before, a dude here created an FPGA console that works as an NES, and it works on just about every cart thrown at it. If he can do it, a number of other people can come up with a solution. It's not like if the last NES goes into the shredder we'll have lost the opportunity to play those carts forever. I guess if someone HAD to have an original to play on, they can pay a premium for the privilege (though right now you can still get an original for cheaper than most FPGA solutions.)

 

True. That is why I suspected only 10% of the production run still exists. Only about a quarter of them would be considered fully functional without need of minor restoration work.

Here's the thing, you will reach a point of getting the connectors for the game pads because they are proprietary. The bright side is, those connectors are like that LED, still functional. Takes a lot to totally kill those.

The reason they would likely survive is because the 65xx chips are very reliable. Those chips would likely last 40 years. Even the NMOS 6502 found in the Commodore PET are still likely to be functional provide they were outright fried. Even Intel 4004 chips still functions to this day.
The things that tends to fail would be components designed to sacrifice itself under things like power surge.

These computers are reliable and will likely last this long.

The key is how people treat the consoles. The thing that was most problematic was that cartridge slot mechanism.

 

To be fair, I hate trashing gaming stuff, too.

I have a Vaus controller I'm trying to resurrect. I just need to get some wire to patch a couple of connections.

I seriously doubt that 10V is anywhere near the breakdown voltage of the chips. Running them a little bit overvoltage won't kill them immediately, but a 2x increase in voltage will quadruple the heat dissipation of the chip. Actually it's greater than that. Assuming the diode junctions have a Vdrop of .8V, and there are two of them between the GND and VCC, this gives the chip around 3.4V internally to work with. At 6.4V [1.6V + sqrt2 * 3.4V], the heat dissipation would be twice what it is at 5V. At 8.4V [1.6V + 3.4V*2], the heat dissipation would be four times what it is at 5V. The chip could definitely handle momentary overvoltage by a volt or so or across one or more of it's pins, but the black resin the chip packages are constructed from can only dissipate so much heat production. As a result the internal junction would temperature would rise even moreso above ambient temperature than the increase in wattage. Pushing the chip far out of tolerance can in some cases permanently alter the silicone even if it still apparently functions, causing intermittent problems with other I/O logic chips in the circuit. A circuit that does not outright fail but occasionally misbehaves can be difficult to diagnose.

As an example, the lockout "zapper" circuit used in unlicensed game carts provided -5V to the input pin on the lockout chip. This caused the chip to malfunction in such a manner that it did not trip the reset switch, allowing the console to function normally. However despite being operated repeatedly out of spec such that the chip could not function properly as long as the inverted signal was present, this caused no long term damage to the lockout chips, which would resume proper operation as soon as the out of spec signal was removed. Nintendo later tharted this workaround by adding a diode and shunt resistor to the lockout schematic. This safely dumped the inverse voltage source to ground without damage to the console or game cart, but the game cart refused to operate on such systems.

A catastrophic failure of the IC chip can be caused in one of two ways. Frying it by running the chip out of tolerance for extended periods by exceeding the absolute ratings of the device could get the silicon hot enough internally so that it breaks down. Generally the chip will develop burn marks or welts in the casing indicating visible damage. So I think placing -5 or +10 volts on a single I/O, likely may not be enough to destroy the chip but will likely impede proper operation.

The other method is to create a voltage potential inside the chip that exceeds the breakdown voltage of the silicon junction. A quick static charge will do this. Low current CMOS generally operates by pairs of MOSFET transistors on each output. These transistors conduct when a charge at their input causing the N-type or P-type silicon wafer inside to change types, allowing current to pass across the transistor. Unlike Bipolar transistor, each MOSFET have a thin insulator isolating the collector from the Base and Emitter. If a charge of sufficient strength to "zap" the collector is present, this insulating layer is destroyed causing current from the input to leak into the body of the transistor. Current flows from the Collector into the Base or Emitter and the MOSFET ceases to function properly.

In an IC circuit, leakage current caused by a "zapped" collector, internally or externally, will cause the chip to draw excessive current and get hot when connected to a rated supply. Sometimes the faulty chip will blow the regulator or fuse, and other times, as in the case of overvoltage supplied to the VCC of the PCB, one dead chip will sink so much current that the supply droops, preventing cascading failures of other healthy chips on the board.

All this talk about breaking Nintendos and no one is questioning what happened to versions 1 and 2???? I'm a bit scared to learn of their fate.

V1 and 2 were non-functional prototypes, V3 is the only functional one.

 

are these prototypes for sale?!?  

This was much more exciting in my head... Thanks for ruining it.  
 

If you hit the cpu with with one of those stun gun electro zappers for about 10 to 15 seconds, it's pretty much toast.

If you noticed, it was essentially pulsating like strobing the lines with what I would say is probably overvoltage or overcurrent using an oscillation rate similar to the pulse rate of a stun gun would be. Basically charging capacitor(s) and then releasing that charge at one. Basically spiking the chips. The 5v feed would easily be stepped up to 500,000v. A stun gun uses a voltage amplifier circuit to bump up the voltage from input voltage like 9v (or in the case of the NES would be a 5v input source) and step up that voltage to something a bit higher. Stun guns are known to be in the 500,000 to well over 1 Million volts. In which case, I'm quite confident that the 65c02 would not be surviving that much for that long. It's not like Nintendo was designing the NES to survive that extreme of conditions. Remember, the NES was designed around 5v. Typically, operating withing +0.3v above VDD. When VDD is 5v, it's typically design to be operating between -0.3v to VDD +0.3v but VDD can be up to 7.0v. But if you hit that with 1 Million VOLTS, it's probably not going to be doing so good after 10 seconds of that. Much like a human being wouldn't be doing so good after 10 seconds of that.

From what I was seeing and hearing in the video, it seems like the guy was basically making a 'stun gun' type circuit to zap the chip to death. As for the exact voltage and current, it's probably doesn't need to be that high. This type of stun gun zapper circuit that I am talking about is a bit more brutal than that of the lockout chip. I would think Nintendo would have the NES go into forced resetting. 



 

In short, it would be like hitting the console with a lightning bolt. 200v (+ or -) is way outside the +7.0V (+0.3v) tolerance. I suppose the chip could possibly survive a little beyond that provide you can heatsink away. I would argue that 50v and even 200v (regardless of polarity) is going to be hurting the chips way beyond it's intended tolerance level.

You just can't keep pulsing 9v or 50v or 200v for too long before the chip gives up the ghost UNLESS the current is so infintismally small that it's negligible.

You realize I'm a moderator and can read your comments regardless  
 

Yeah, I know that. Don't let moderator status get to your head though. On the other hand, if I edit something because I thought it was too harsh and tone it down, it should indicate to you that I had rethought about what I said. I still stand on the point that this kind of creative energy is better used on productive / creative things like creating games for the NES. There is so many easy ways to destroy an NES but why? We love the NES, don't we? Isn't that why we are here?

No need to specifically respond to the questions but hey, it's just a critical respond not a personal opinion of you. I don't know you enough to like or dislike or love or hate. 


 

"Don't let moderator status get to my head", you don't see me reversing your edit, do you? Which I could, but since you've been a good sport and the good discussion, I won't.. A post like that on anyone's thread typically warrants a spot in the mod squad discussion.
And a little quick to judge if you ask me though, I make NES games, K3VBOT's Homebrew Highlights. Have 6 games under my belt and continue to work on and release games. 
A little "because I can" project didn't hurt anyone, and I'm not coming over to your house to test your system  

On a side note, you're pretty close on the 5v in, charging, and sending a charge down the address lines. You know your electronics.

It's good that we're being good sports here. I look forward to seeing more good stuff from you for the NES. 

 

DIY schematic. I'm sure this would provide an impressive jolt if used on a 5V source...

http://www.electroschematics.com/...

Somebody should build a USB version of this NES device (secondary of the output transformer connects to data + and data -) and sell them on the black market. Lot of sinister uses I could envision for this...