I have been wondering about the true accuracy of the AVS vs a normal unmodified NES.

This all started when I attempted what, from what I have learned from some folks at NESDEV, was a futile project to daisy chain 2 NES controllers to play both the NES & AVS at the same time using the same game on 1 controller to compare the two with 1 to 1 input. I took 2 cheap Tomee controllers, soldered their buttons together and connected just the +5V connector from one controller to the other to power it. The results were quite strange since all buttons worked but when I press up, right, or down it adds in an additional directional input on one of the two consoles.

On the plus side the setup works for playing player 1 & 2 at the same time but for some reason using 2 different systems results in that problem I mentioned.

Are there differences in the input ports that cause this issue or is it more complicated than that?

Based on what folks at NESDEV said the original NES actually runs at 60.0988 Hz while alternatives such as the AVS & Hi-Def NES run at 60 Hz due to an HDMI standard. Is this true for the AVS?

It was also stated that due to this small difference 1 hour of gameplay will result in the NES being 6 seconds ahead. If it is true 6 seconds is a long time when it comes to world record paced speed runs so I am not sure how that would effect the consoles viability as a speed running platform.

If this is being discussed at nesdev, why don't you ask these questions on nesdev?  

Primarily because I figured the creators of the AVS would have more visibility on this forum since it is directly associated with the AVS.  

Eat it up?!?!

Lol

Just a name I made a long time ago when I played Diablo 1 online for the first time. It was meant to be correlated to when you say Eat that! to someone when you beat them at something. I like to think of it as eating up knowledge now though. Sort of a meal for the brain.  

But this forum isn't about the AVS, this forum is about the scoreboard, so I'm confused as to why you posted this here.

The creator, singular, of the AVS is a regular at NESDEV, so I'm sure he would have seen the thread there.

Can a mod move this to the appropriate area, since this thread isn't scoreboard related.

The AVS may have the scoreboard but the AVS is not the scoreboard itself. 

 

Oh I did not know the creator is a regular at NESDEV. However the question could have something to do with scoreboard if it is adapted to use the timer on games for speed run statistics. I thought that would be a good way to implement it quickly with every game since the scoreboard app already runs a timer when you start any game. Of course the scoring system would still take quite a bit of work on a per game basis. :\

If the speed run times differ from the real NES it would be pretty difficult to convince the top speed runners to actually use the system and would make the times kind of odd unless an auto adjustment to what time the game would have taken for the real nes was implemented at the end of a run.

There was mention of using a frame counter instead of a timer. Is that something the AVS NES could actually have implemented into the scoreboard app?

Gotta do what Paul says. It's in the FAQ.

But really, I think this is the place for it. And bunnyboy is more likely to see it here.

Also, I think the AVS isn't really going to be a world record verifying machine. It's just for fun, so probably not concerned about convincing the top speed runners to adopt it. And Guinness and Twin Galaxies would never accept it.

Nice. I really wish there were a way to make the it 100% accurate while using HDMI though. That would be amazing but if the standard cannot support it I guess it may not be possible.  

Speaking of accuracy: can someone see if the dog barks once or three times in Duck Hunt? He only barks once on Hi-Def NES! The analog output still plays the PCM sample three times, but not the digital output.

Actually, I've only tested on my personal Hi-Def NES. No one has reported back on theirs. I'm still curious to know if the AVS does this since it also duplicates these functions in an FPGA.

Do people still actually play games for fun? I feel if i was concerned about 6 second differences in an hours worth of gameplay i probably wouldnt be having fun.

Fun is different for many folks. It is really fun for some to shave off those 6 seconds from their favorite game. Sort of an obsession since it is generally all they play when they are at that level. Really neat to watch those runs. At which point does the dog bark? Can it be tested w/o the zapper? I don't have a crt to hook up here unfortunately. If it is the start bark he does bark 3 times when I just tried it on the AVS.

Yes. That is the point where he only barks once on my Hi-Def NES. Thanks for testing! Now I just need to get another Hi-Def NES user to confirm that it isn't something with my NES.
 

I haven't noticed any difference in the games that I've put in super high scores for. So I dunno.

Doing a test of the two side by side on Twitch atm. The NES is definitely running faster.

First of all, name is cool. 

Second. What's this "runs faster" The avs is six seconds behind after an hour? 
How can you tell? For instance, if I play SMB3 (I've probably got a years worth of time on this game) for an hour how/where an I going to notice something like this?

 

I was also wondering this.

Can you tell any diffference in speed playing SMB3 on the AVS? As in... Everything moves slower? Adding up to 6s/hour?

I think it's just an example of the math... I interpret it to mean that if you were playing an NES for an hour, you'd be able to accomplish 6s more of gameplay...?

I imagine, if true, the OP is saying that the AVS plays slower (adding up to 6s/hour). Whether any human being could notice that.... I dunno.

It's literally a second for every ten minutes, or a tenth of a second for every minute. I'm sure I wouldn't notice it, but those little bits add up. I'm guessing you could film the systems running the same game in demo mode then compare how long it takes one to catch up to the other after an hour.

Hey guys I have a question. Someone at Twin Galaxies is trying to submit a score for the NES platform on an AVS. The thing is, the folks over there want to know if the AVS is accurate enough to have scores preformed with the AVS being ranked with NES scores. Is there any data or hard evidence that can be shown that proves the AVS's accuracy compared with the NES?

See this topic below.

http://www.twingalaxies.com/showt...

It's 59.94Hz, not 60. Broadcast media still runs 59.94Hz through cable, OTA, and satellite, so recievers with HDMI ouput are synced to 59.94Hz. Otherwise every 999th frame gets duplicated if the HDMI sync were 60Hz instead.  


As for the controller dongles, sync, reset, and data need independent connections to each controller. I would recommend leaving the VCC signals separate between chips and use common ground if each console has it's own power. Or backdoor power both consoles through the controller port (power switch on the console side must be in off position and AC adapter disconnected) using an external 5V supply.
 

The plot thickens. If I had an AVS to test, I'd throw in the 2-in-1. Still waiting on my preorder due to "launch" games...

Weird that the HDMI and analog out are different on the HiDef. I wonder if the NT2 will be different?

 

Well, to have digital audio the Hi-Def NES has to create it. Kevtris implemented every kind of NES/Famicom audio in the FPGA, which is why expansion audio works on an NES even without mods. Going back to analog output is going to use whatever is in your system/cartridge, so no expansion audio and no Duck Hunt PCM audio glitch. There is no DAC to pipe Hi-Def NES audio out over the old analog audio outputs. I wish there were since I have a DVI 4:3 Sony Trinitron HDTV that I can use it with (DVI doesn't do digital audio), but I'll just use the same box I used to get optical out of my ChromeCast.

Normally the majority cannot, but there are people who are well in tuned to their own time percetption to the point where they know almost exactly how much time is going around and being used up.

I actually had a friend who I used to play basketball with, and when he would say "Hey, I got to leave in 5 mins." You look at your watch until it's time, and right when hits the five minute mark, he would say "Alright, I gotta go". He didn't have a watch, and this happened too many times to be a conicidence. Some people are just THAT in-tuned.

 

Lucky. If I'm playing a game and say, "just five more minutes..." four hours later, I'll still be playing it.  

 

Since the Hidef NES (and presumably the NT2) use analog audio, outputs, you could just use that. If you're using an NES toaster with the PowerPak resistor mod, it will mix any expansion audio for you right from the source, as the original A/V has not been disabled. IIRC, you can use the composite out by booting your NES with the HDMI disconnected, though the analog audio is avaialable at all times.

I am curious though, since the NT2 has a similar FPGA core as the HiDef mod, if it will exhibit the same bugs as the HiDef mod / NT1. Might want to alert Kebtris, as I am sure he can cook up an update to fix any emulation issues. I hate using that word though as FPGA is a hardware emu which can be 1000x more versatile and cycle accurate than soft emu.