Some of those non-V Seam games are definitely legit... stuff like Earthworm Jim 2 and the Star Wars games I've seen in seam and non-seam variations.

But I've never seen a non-V-Seam Demon's Crest. I'm not necessarily an SNES expert though, so maybe someone else has?

Unfortunately, not sure if VGA would certify that as real. It's like autographs... sometimes people have a picture of the actual athlete signing an item, but a certification service cannot certify it as real due to inconsistencies with known samples. It doesn't matter if you intend to keep it forever, but it does hurt the resale value.

I believe your story but that I've never seen that seal on a Demon's Crest. Maybe if another turns up it adds some credibility, but right now no V-Seam will deter a lot of buyers.

Not only the missing sticker, the actual plastic of the wrap looks wrong on yours (with seams in different places) and it looks like there are scuffs all along the box edges under the plastic.

Here is what mine looks like and the wrap seems very similar to the wrap on a factory sealed SNES game

http://www.nesrepairshop.com/online_shopping/products_pictur...

Well, yours looks factory sealed, as does mine.
It's not missing a sticker as there was never one to begin with. Those stickers are much like price stickers, some have them, some don't.

The seal looks different on mine mostly because it's very dark and also because no two seals are exactly the same. I can definitely tell they are of similar manufacturing techniques though. Tight wrap with it bunched up in the corners.

Those aren't scuff marks on the bottom, they are bright spots where the the flash caught the plastic and reflected back. Look closer.

Anyway, like I said, I sold this years ago to someone who could be considered an expert on factory sealed games and accessories and he was very happy with it.

Please stay on topic. Thanks.




Yeah, understandable. To be honest I really haven't seen more than maybe 8 factory sealed Demon' s Crest games in the last bunch of years.

If I sent this to VGA and they sent it back as a "reseal" it would just prove they are not as knowledgeable as people seem to think.
I am 100% sure that this is factory sealed, direct from the factory, opened the shipping box myself. 

There has to be legitimate way of knowing for sure other than the "I haven't seen one like this so it probably doesn't exist" answer, which I've been getting in PMs.

Out of the thousands of new games I've bought over the last 30 years I would say 90% of them were purchased from reputable stores on or around their original release date. Most of them from '94 until 2000 were from the store I managed since we had a nice employee discount and I certainly took advantage of that when our store filed for chapter 11 and games/systems drool by as much as 75%.

So getting back to this factory sealed Demon' s Crest. What would VGA graders look for to determine if it's factory sealed?
I imagine they can't just rely on H-Seams since those are faked all the time on eBay.

This game has vent holes and they look like all the other factory sealed vent hole games I own. I guess those could be faked as well. So what else would they check?

Stress marks? There is no sign of my box being opened from either end. There are no white lines on the corners.

I would like to know if anyone has knowledge of what exactly VGA checks for. I would consider having some of my games graded to keep them safe and I imagine my insurance company would accept those as graded values (I guess I should make sure though).

I guess some people would consider this a rare seal variant then if proven legitimate, although you would have to go over the entire box in person to check for any under the wrap damage or signs of use like at the flaps. And it can't be ruled out that it was returned to capcom and resealed for whatever reason.

True.
I don't think Capcom was in the business of resealing returns and shipping them back to the retailers. Also, if that were the case, and it was an opened and returned game you would see a stress line on at least one of the side flaps from it being opened. They don't exist on this copy.

Someone also mentioned that it might have been a game that was opened by a Babbage's employee during the infamous "employee game take home privileges".
For those who haven't heard of this, Babbage's used to allow employees to borrow a game for a few days in order to familiarize themselves with it so they might answer questions or recommend the game to customers. That is also NOT the case here.
1. As I mentioned several times now, *I* managed the store at the time and unpacked this game myself. 
2. Babbage's shrinkwrapping machines did not produce this type of professional results, nor did they include the ability to add VENT HOLES. You would often see singe marks where the heated wire melted through the wrapping or a hazy film from where the heatgun was pointed. 

The only visible damage on this copy was pointed out. A barely visible mark on Firebrand's wing. There are a few light scratches all on the plastic cellophane. Nothing underneath except some dust which is from the cardboard.

If anyone has the exact methods VGA uses to detect a factory seal versus a reseal it may help prove this is real once and for all. And by that I mean prove to curious skeptics since i already know it's 100% legit.

PS: it's still not for sale. I am still trying to get an accurate estimate on value. 

This picture looks like there are a few long razor blade marks under the plastic "seal", that run along the bottom of the box.

http://www.videogameobsession.com...

There is a long slice down the sideof the box, under the wrap in this pic too

http://www.videogameobsession.com/videogame/snes/zDemonsCres...

I know who bought it. Did VGA grade it for her?

I'm surprised with the heckling over this game so much. I'm not an expert as I don't touch sealed games in this market, but I had been in the past on the ball with the stuff and I do know that seals from third parties did vary at times on games, and really aside from vent holes up and missing, it was fairly easy to spot a repackage from some store versus real. Those lines in the box I've seen those before too in the past on new stuff straight out of a nintendo branded cardboard shipping box. Shit happens and QC isn't 100% from the manufacturers end and you can get razor cuts or other issues.

As far as the VGA question goes, if that game were in my possession knowing where it came from and if I were you who removed it from the box straight from the distributor I'd test them on it completely. VGA doesn't like putting all their standards out there for the public to see, they like to keep it a mystery for whatever reason (protect their business interests to cover up some bs, whatever it is.) If this went in and came back as a reseal you'd have your proof they're just taking suckers for cash giving them expensive false hope and promises. But, if it came back and had a nice grade on it clearing it of doubt then it would show they have some real clue on the variances of how things ended up being back then.

Before posting anymore VGA criticism, perhaps you should read NP4Ever's post. There is a clear razor line in pic 3 under the seal, yet the seal is not torn.

Reseal, VGA will not grade it as authentic.

/Thread

How are you suprised, Tanooki? The game clearly has all the classic markings of a reseal, as you know as well, minus Spoonman's claims. Nobody's busting his balls, we're just stating what we see. I believe he believes he is telling the truth, however, but when it comes to grading, rudimentary scientific method tactics must always be used. If grading waivered towards subjectivity (aside from 2 to 3 subjective eyes all trying to reach objectivity in the overall grade, which is the best method science can offer at the moment), then the entire foundation for a grading service would crumble.

Basically, you can't take people's subjective word on items, no offense to Spoonman. People can claim things all day, we see it in all walks of life, but an objective approach must be taken with sealed games in terms of past observations, current knowledge, and the history that exists for this title. To my knowledge and I dare say 99% of the sealed guys on here, there exists no legit Demon Crest like this. The 1% that does, much has to be taken into account and then history moves forward. There have been past exceptions that have changed the rules though, but for a Demon Crest, enough sealed copies exist where history is already pretty concrete, and most experts will just chalk it up to a variable missing from the equation, like how many people believe an alien visited them, or they've seen a ghost, despite 100% personal subjective sincerity. Believing you're telling the truth just doesn't cut it in the modern world when it comes to the scientific method. Doesn't mean people are lying, it's just we know nowadays humans are very poor personal historians, like the telephone game we all played as kids. Collective knowledge is what counts today.

So there is. Good eye, NP4Ever... Whelp, there you have it. The missing variable. Spoonman just must not have known where the shipments came from in the past, being only an employee at the time? Maybe his boss sent them out to be resealed by another company? Who knows?

I've seen enough from spoonman on here to take his word over people getting twitchy on here. So if it is a reseal Capcom did it, his company liked to mess with new stock, or he's a liar would be about it.

And I think people here know grading is subjective based on whoever hits it as we've seen before VGA has had games that get resubmitted by people on here thinking it deserved better and sometimes it does come back at a better rating.

I had a few Demon's Crest sealed passing through my hands, I saw a lot online, and never saw a seal like this one. There's WAY more chances this one is simply a resealed, and maybe a very early one if spoonman's story is true (or if he remember it correctly. 20+ years can trick your memory and you won't even realize it.) Let's not forget games were frequently resealed in stores for various reasons.

I wouldn't put my stamp of approval on this, and wouldn't change my stance on it just because of one man's words.

Well spooner I and everyone else Im sure believes your story but there is one thing I don't believe you are accounting for. Games were sometimes rescaled at the distributor level. Didnt happen that often but it happened. ive seen distributor overstock that was as much as 15-20% reseals. usually its much lower say 2% but there were disributors that did this more than others. It's entirely possible for a game to have arrived at the store already resealed and unfortunately that's what you're looking at here.

As for the other non h seam games you posted, Im on my phone, but even on my phone I can see most of those are majescos. You wouldn't expect an h seam on those, but they are a slightly later reissue. Kinda like greatest hits in a way. Open those up and they will have black and white instead of color manuals.

Sorry guys I don't know what to tell you other than it's not a most definitely not a re-sealed game.

Show me how vent holes are faked. (there must be tell tale signs when this is done).
Show me how an opened game shows no stress marks on either flap
Show me how a resealed game was shipped from Capcom to our store.

It comes down to is that I removed this exact game out of the shipment box in our store in 1995 and it left with me that night.
It had no chance of becoming a "reseal". It only touched my hands and I couldn't fake a re-seal this good and can honestly say I've never tried.

Those of you who actually know me, know that I'm an honest person and have no reason to lie.
I have been collecting, contributing, and dedicating my life to this hobby for more years than I wish to recall... more years than some of you have been on this planet.

In addition, some of you, claiming this is fake are trying to buy it from me, so what does that say? Maybe you are trying to drive the price down in an attempt to have it for a steal, but as I've said several times, It's not for sale and never has been.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue to take abuse on a thread in which I started - asking for your help.
I could possibly understand some of these questions about the game if I were selling it, but even then some of you were completely out of line.

I don't really need this trouble. I have nothing to prove here.

Well, you ask for our help, here is our help: That game does not have a legit seal on it. It is your choice to take our help or not, but if you ask, we answer.

Just like you have no reason to consider our help, we have no reason to consider your 'story'. I base my judgement on the fact shown, and the fact shown is your picture, not your story.

And for transparency, I personally never pm'd spoonman to buy this Demon's Crest, I'm giving my opinion publicly for all.

Giving your opinion on a factory sealed game and calling me a liar are two completely different things though.

1. I have absolutely no reason to lie since as I stated this game was never a sale option.
2. Not once has anyone explained how it can have the correct vent holes, no stress marks on the flaps, I.E. it's never been opened.

I actually didn't notice the thin lines until they were pointed out and checked the pictures. When you look at it in person you don't see it as clearly.
It's obviously something the camera's flash and extreme macro mode makes more obvious.

It's probably about the same width as a human hair and I don't think it was done with a razor. If I had to think of what may have caused this I would say probably the hot melted plastic cooling against the boxe's glossy surface. I don't know. I'm not going to pretend to know how factory's seal a game.
Looking at it though, it's not a straight line. My experience of opening boxes includes a single cut between two joining cardboard panels resulting in a single straight line.

Anyway, perhaps it was a razor cut. Do the stacks of boxes to be assembled in (Mexico?) not arrive in a container that needs to be opened?
It certainly makes sense to open these boxes with a box cutter, does it not? Sure it's unlikely that they cut it. I am the first to admit that, but what's even more unlikely is that somehow between the time that I unpacked the box of Demon's Crest SNES games and purchased it that someone stole it from my bag, quietly opened it, and then resealed it with perfect vent holes in place.

With the exception of a few friendly people here, you guys have shown nothing but negativity towards me from the start of this post.
You could have simply said "if the box is indeed factory sealed it's probably worth so and so..." and that would have been perfect.
But I get treated like I am trying to pull off a heist on something that was not for sale. I don't know if it's jealously or what.

Kind of funny that the pictures are all titled "Demon's Crest CIB" on the Video Game Obsession website
Edited: 10/23/2013 at 03:51 PM by nintendopower_4_ever

Then saying my other items are not what they appear to be because of a missing sticker and trying to claim the light reflecting off the bottom is box wear... Really??

Anyway, I stand by my word, because *I* was there and there was no "telephone game" being played. One person was involved and that person was me.

When did I said you lied or anything? I just said I don't consider anything related to your narration about how you bought it like 20 years ago. I'm not reconsidering my own knowledge on the subject because of a story that took place 20 years from now. Am I crazy to do so? Certainly not. That you lie or not, I don't really care, cause I don't base my opinion on your story. And by doing so, I'm actually not starting a 'telephone game' with a lag of 20 years between now and the event.

Also, I don't want to extend on the subject, but you are the one over-reacting. You answer like all your credibility stand on this argument. Relax, it is just a sealed-resealed debate. There's no reason to be offended really by anything regarding your Demon's Crest.

Your game might be brand new inside, but it was most certainly resealed somewhere before it ended in your hands, that's all, there's no big deal here. And if you want a price estimation on THIS copy, it won't be an estimation that consider it 100% sealed legit and the value will probably be alike the price of a near-mint+ CIB + a premium for the possibility of it being brand new inside.

If the vent holes are correct and it's tight, one plausible explanation would be an internal reseal by Capcom. Let's say between Japan and the US, the local boys got a bit aggressive with a box cutter and sliced the game box enough to cause the white line and shred the wrap. In that case I could see Capcom just resealing it before shipping it on to a distributor. Another less likely would be a printing error/defect from the point of where the boxes are mass printed on large sheets before or after they're cut and not quality controlled into the nearest trash can. In any of those cases you could get a legit seal and from the factory.

Matt, please don't be defensive. No one is calling you a liar and I'm sure every single person on this thread believes your story 100%. You seem to think that either we believe you OR it's a reseal. No - as I pointed out I believe you AND I think it's a reseal.

You're right that you came for a price check and not an authenticity check so let me be the first to throw out a guess. I'd say 300-350 for your copy.

And although Im not personally interested in it I don't think there is anything nefarious about people telling you it's reseed and wanting to buy it. It's still minty mint and the fact they DO believe your story is one reason why they'd want it. Your story is absolutely 100% believable and I 100% believe you. But that ain't a factory sealed game. Unopened perhaps , but not factory sealed. Please don't be hostile - were just trying to point out to you the truth.

Amen to Dan, and the price estimate is solid!

Exactly. It could have been resealed before it ever hit Matt's hands and his story be 100% completely true!
Tons of games were resealed like that.

Yeah, and that goes for people who bought at retail too. Most of the games I bought off the shelf ten years ago were resealed because to prevent theft the store would remove the discs and only keep empty boxes out. The. When you went to pay they'd join the two back up and seal it right in front of you

Now that store was an exception but it did happen. And it probably happened to some scale at every single store that accepted returns.

Thanks Dan,
I'm defensive because it has to be one or the other. Either it's factory sealed or I am a liar.

If it's in fact a reseal then it happened before being put into the 6pc box (which also had it's own branded tape seal "if tape is broken..." and it wasn't by the way.)

I may have over-reacted, but it did feel very much like a witchhunt for a while there.
I acted as if my name was at stake because it was, my website as well.


This could be a possbility too.
The vent holes look real. If there is a method of finding out I'd like to know.

You guys asked me to take it out of the plastic and take more pictures, which I have done.
If there is anything else that would help prove that I received it from the company this way I'd be happy to try it.

Working at the game store for 7 years I have seen some pretty strange stuff, including an upside down stickers, game manuals with blank pages where there should have been print, off-center cut inserts, and so on. There is definitely room for error.


Offset insert Tekken 3                                                              Upside down pages in Final Fantasy VII


Typos


Blank insert in factory sealed MGS2


Anyway, going back to the vent holes. If someone has info on what to look for please let me know and I'll check into it.
It also brings up the question, if someone knew how to fake vent holes wouldn't they have made it an "H-Seam" seal as well?

This is getting old. Believe what you want to believe then.