Not sure if this is in the right place, mods feel free to move this if necessary.

In a recent CUPodcast (ran by Ian Ferguson and NA member Pat the NES Punk) about prototypes, specifically about a recent sale of an N64 prototype, Pat brought up NES prototypes and had this to say: "To see three or four guys buying up all the prototypes, that makes me sick in and of itself. Sort of cornering this already very niche market to begin with." The video can be viewed here:

It's around the 5 minute mark.

I know guys like DreamTR have amazing prototype collections, many times it's seen as rude and stupid to ask how they find these things, and these guys are really well respected. I specifically thought about Dream when I heard the podcast, and while Pat has a point, I almost couldn't believe he said that. Most people with prototype collections work really hard to amass their collections. What do you all think? Is it wrong that just a few people have prototype collections (setting the prices high on resale) or is Pat being small-minded?

It's amazing how many opinions a guy can have that I disagree with, without ever having watched one of his videos. Everything I hear about him just grates me the wrong way.

To this particular matter, does he think there should be a limit to game hunting like there is for deer hunting? I'm pretty sure he is well over any such limit himself. This just reeks of jealousy. Foochie just bought his first prototype from DreamTR so he clearly has no problem with more people getting into it.

Everyone is into collecting their own thing. Would be nice if all the protos get dumped thou.

The reason those few people have those protos is because they decided early on that they wanted to collect those. Now other's want them so they are harder to find. It's not like they had any advantage other than being interested in finding them early on.

Pat is just being a whiner. Both The Nolan brothers and dream have been recently selling off cosiderable parts of their Proto collections and they had some of the biggest collections. Pat needs off the virtual high horse he is on.

Man the guy just upsets me.

I don't listen to this podcast, because of the negative undertones.

What I do keeps him up at night?

Shit, I couldn't care less if Pat were alive or dead, but I'm flattered that's he obsesses over the plastic that I sell.

His tits are legit HUGE in this vid too. Thanks for sharing OP!

This video eerks me on several levels. Many of the biggest proto collectors stay underground to avoid the BS that comes with collecting them. It would be great if it went public but if it doesn't I have good faith in the buyer preserving the game. Talk about sitting on ones high horse...

I actually like Pat (and look forward to future butthurt that I'm sure he'll inspire).

Regardless, I don't entirely agree with him. From what I've seen, most prototypes aren't actually prohibitively expensive (and if ones that have sold recently have been, just wait because there will always be more), so if someone is deeply concerned about preserving them and already spends a good chunk of change on game collecting, it wouldn't be a huge feet to try to purchase and dump one or two from time to time. If not, I guess preserving them isn't that high on one's list of game-related priorities.

I like their podcast, among others. Doesn't mean I have to agree with everything they have to say. I will agree with his sentiment about preservation: having copies of these games preserved digitally for historical reasons is very important to me. But at the end of the day, it is up to the owner of the proto to decide what happens to it (aside from any legal issues).. if, to take the extreme example, someone bought an undumped/unreleased proto just to destroy it without releasing it, it'd bother me very much. But it's their property. Similarly, I wish protos were dumped/released upon purchase, but I understand some collectors' reasons for not doing so. And that's the extent of it: it's not mine to decide what happens to someone's property, regardless of how strongly I hold that opinion.

I think people should be able to collect what they want, and mostly it's a matter of collecting what you can afford. There will always be someone with a larger collection than you out there, so what, why whine over it? People can keep whining, or they can (heaven forbid) befriend other collectors, make contacts, and score deals. I wouldn't have had half the things in my collection if it weren't for connections, and I'm not talking about connections + paying out the nose either.

Prototypes are something I think a lot of collectors would like to own a few of, but don't need to go for hundreds or anything. For popular games, everyone wants to own those protos, but then for crappy games, there is less interest. I own some protos and quite enjoy having them, though that isn't my main focus either. I think there are a lot of other collectors in the same boat. They like protos, have a few, but it isn't their main focus. For Dream, the Nolans, etc, the protos were their main focus, hence why they amassed so many. There isn't a silly conspiracy here about hoarding to corner the market or anything

On another note, I absolutely hate the idea of VGA prototypes. Here is the problem with that, in a nutshell: it is common knowledge that dumped prototypes sell for less than undumped ones. Therefore a lot of people that sell, wouldn't be interested in dumping their games and distributing. So you don't dump it, and then also VGA it in a case? That data is likely lost forever, unless the new buyer manages to safely crack the VGA case, in which case what was the point of VGAing it anyways (aside from increasing prices)?

If you're willing to go the distance to have a prototype backed up, and not give a shit about the case, it's not nearly an impossible thing to do. The hardest part is paying out the wazoo to get the VGA'd prototype, knowing you're going to destroy a big part of what you spent so much on. Getting the proto out of the acrylic case safely is much easier than most people realize, so there isn't that much to worry about the data.

If you listen to the full versions of the podcast, Pat and Ian say every episode that they know there will be haters and people who disagree so shut up, let them express what they think freely.obviously many people like what he has to say about things, otherwise why would they be watching his videos and listening to his podcasts? Just leave him alone, he gets enough hate in the youtube comments already. It could have even been an under informed mistake. Happens to everyone.

Putting a disclaimer like that at the beginning of a podcast as sort of a "get out of jail free card" is (to me) sort of like when someone begins a conversation like this:  "I'm not racist, but...".  Of course people should be allowed to freely speak as they choose, but at the same time, it helps to do some research first before going in on a topic uninformed, and making generalizations and contraversial comments.

You guys get bent out of shape way too easy, who gives a shit what someone says on the internet.

Who cares what his opinions are? People who collect prototypes are still going to continue doing so regardless of what is being said. If anything else it's exposure to a somewhat niche' type of collecting.

While I think that Pat is wrong about the 3-4 guys buying up all the protos, I do agree with his immediate following disdain of buying them as an investment, in that buying it as an investment is a bad idea, since it will lead to a decline in supply while not satisfying the demand that exists for them, such that it will inflate its price and nobody wins except for the people that bought the protos to make a profit rather than dump the ROMs. I like what Mark and Dream do, as they don't just buy a prototype to sit on it until the time is right to make huge money by reselling the damn thing, they actively release it into the wild and (what some do) try to make their money back through repros since protos lose value when dumped, that's a well-established fact. And I'm fully okay with that, I support it, and if I had the money, I'd buy a few of Mark's protos to support him and I'd also buy a repro of the NES Robocop vs. Terminator cart because I like that game and want it on my NES. But don't just buy a proto and put it up on your shelf, hiding it from everyone, and wait 5 years to resell the fucking thing. That's not cool.

EDIT: Fixed a few issues.

By now, I am so bored with the whole prototype culture, moreso with incomplete games, because of all this drama. I mean, I believe in preservation, but unless Dragon Hopper or Twelve Tales surfaces, I'm not really going to be jumping out of my skin for a prototype release. And even if they show up and a dump never happens, I'll just live life as usual enjoying the games I do have and move on.

Actual hoarding is different from simply asking for compensation. The latter is more agreeable.

From my knowledge no one has ever made any profit from releasing a Rom via a community dump. The owners aren't greedy for just asking a little back for giving to the community. I've never done one but I am looking into it to release all of my alpha/ betas one day. If people aren't willing to pony up the dough they don't have to, but if people could get off their high horse with this "holding it for ransom shit that would be great. Holding for ransom would be buyinging for $3k and asking for $6k or something along those lines.

I've sold over 1,000 cart prototypes and moved mostly to pinball in the past 4-5 years. I know I am not the one buying them up anymore lol. I think I have 250 left over all platforms.

I don't give a shit who has prototypes or what they do with them. I'm just amazed that they are able to find these relics 20 years later. Simply amazing. That being said.....find that Police Academy DreamTR / Nolan Bros!

Hm, OK, then let me express what I want freely. Why does the big podcaster need your defense against a little forum poster?

Knowing you're a jerk (a reasonable extrapolation from "I know there will be haters") doesn't mean nobody can call you one.

Leave him alone, lol. If it's so burdensome why does he keep doing it?

As for being an unedited show, I really give no pass for that. There is no reason to not edit yourself except that you a) are good enough to make mistakes so rarely or b) don't feel like taking the time to present something of quality. Rambling on is one of many reasons I avoid podcasts. And being under informed is no excuse. He has plenty of time to learn what he is talking about. I'm not saying he has to, especially given that his fans clearly don't care... just saying it does not explain away saying untrue things.