(20:47:09) AH: Hey.
(20:47:13) Me: hello
(20:48:47) AH: By chance, are you familiar with any of the following?
Kevin & Kell
GPF
Metal Gear Solid 2's "Snake Tales" addon
(20:49:03) Me: GPF comics? Heard of the name.
(20:49:09) Me: Kevin and Kell? Do you mean Kenan?
(20:49:14) AH: Nope.
(20:49:23) Me: MGS2: Never played it. I didn't like MGS1 that much.
(20:49:53) AH: Kevin and Kell. Webcomic by the same guy who draws Safe Havens (and if you get it, On the Fasttrack).
(20:49:56) Me: The only snake game I ever got into was nibbles in QBasic.
(20:50:03) AH: Hehe, nibbles
(20:50:22) AH: Nibbles and Gorilla (2D ballistics for the win)
(20:50:55) Me: Gorillas has been ported to the NES, and it is called Solar Wars.
(20:51:19) AH: I'm more of a Scorched Earth man myself.
(20:51:32) AH: Or Gunbound when I can get to it.
(20:51:37) Me: Same thing. Sometime you should grab a friend and try Solar Wars.
(20:52:02) AH: Actually, this was this one fun low-gravity space-based one, whose name escapes me.
(20:52:26) Me: Solar Wars has about eight or nine skins, each with its own gravity.
(20:52:31) AH: Instead of one landscape at the bottom, the playfield was a bunch of planets of sorts.
(20:53:15) AH: And the gravity centered around any land masses, rather than leading down.
(20:53:28) Me: Interesting. But anyway:
http://www.zyx.com/chrisc/solarwars.html
(20:53:36) AH: It was the only SE/SW/Gorillas "clone" I ever got to work online.
(20:54:30) Me: Some NES emulators have netplay.
(21:03:11) AH: Okay, these controls make no sense.
(21:03:30) Me: How not?
(21:03:48) AH: I have the player on the left using 0 vertical power and maximum right horizontal power and he can't shoot right?
(21:04:09) Me: Try a bit more vertical power.
(21:04:46) Me: Shoot a cannon straight out in front of you and of course the shell will hit the ground quickly.
(21:05:11) AH: It's not a matter of how quickly it hits.
(21:05:34) AH: It's a matter of where. Why can't I aim right?
(21:05:54) Me: I don't know.
(21:06:05) Me: You may be missing something simple.
(21:06:26) AH: ...oh, I think I was confused by the fact that you can't see both players on the same screen.
(21:07:20) AH: Also, who aims with vertical and horizontal power?
(21:07:45) Me: What you're seeing is rectangular aiming. Some other games use polar aiming.
(21:08:21) AH: I think this is the only game that USES rectangular aiming.
(21:08:59) Me: And Super Mario 64 was the only 3D platformer at the time that used an analog joystick.
(21:09:19) AH: Apples and oranges.
(21:09:50) AH: That'd be like saying such and such was the only ballistics clone that used fractional units of measure.
(21:10:02) Me: What is your underlying implication about the game?
(21:10:21) Me: Just because something isn't an exact clone of something else doesn't mean that the difference is unacceptable.
(21:10:40) AH: A better comparison woulud be SM64 to SM64 DS, since (as far as I understand it) all the controls for the character are through the touch screen.
(21:11:23) Me: ok
(21:11:48) AH: Or, say, someone graduating to Pop'n Stage based solely on Beatmania/Pop'n experience.
(21:12:00) AH: Entirely different control scheme.
(21:13:15) AH: If I'm throwing something to you, I don't choose a point in space where you are (or where the arc passes through, I don't know what the rectangular coordinates in SW point to) and have at it.
(21:13:30) AH: I aim (angle) and hope I throw hard enough (power) to get it to you.
(21:14:21) Me: Actually, you use your pec (one component) and your tricep (another).
(21:14:48) Me: Elevation/power is just an abstraction that your brain uses.
(21:15:27) AH: That's like saying high-level languages are just abstractions for assembly.
(21:15:34) Me: Well they are
(21:15:38) AH: True.
(21:16:19) AH: But (please tell me this isn't a bad example) how are you programming Luminesweeper?
(21:16:54) AH: On how low a level are you coding?
(21:17:04) Me: It's in C, using libraries that I wrote myself (except for the boot code and the GSM audio decoder). It's not in Python like Pydance.
(21:17:13) Me: C is much closer to assembly than Python.
(21:17:31) AH: But it's still an abstraction.
(21:18:00) Me: Yes. Everything is an abstraction. But does that make the X/Y velocity control method worse for a ballistics game?
(21:18:32) AH: Your nervous system may throw in rectangular, but your rational mind must determine the coordinates for your legs (to turn you) and your arms/chest (to get it far enough).
(21:19:29) AH: Given the abstractions we use, yes, I have to say it does.
(21:20:20) Me: "Solar Wars sucks because rectangular aiming sucks because that's not what I'm used to." Is this your argument?
(21:21:09) AH: Solar Wars sucks because rectangular aiming sucks because that's not what I'm used to _in_real_life._ That's my argument.
(21:21:49) Me: Can I post this on the nesdev board?
(21:22:34) AH: I suppose.
So is there a specific reason why Solar Wars uses rectangular coordinates for velocity rather than the more familiar polar coordinates?
(20:47:13) Me: hello
(20:48:47) AH: By chance, are you familiar with any of the following?
Kevin & Kell
GPF
Metal Gear Solid 2's "Snake Tales" addon
(20:49:03) Me: GPF comics? Heard of the name.
(20:49:09) Me: Kevin and Kell? Do you mean Kenan?
(20:49:14) AH: Nope.
(20:49:23) Me: MGS2: Never played it. I didn't like MGS1 that much.
(20:49:53) AH: Kevin and Kell. Webcomic by the same guy who draws Safe Havens (and if you get it, On the Fasttrack).
(20:49:56) Me: The only snake game I ever got into was nibbles in QBasic.
(20:50:03) AH: Hehe, nibbles
(20:50:22) AH: Nibbles and Gorilla (2D ballistics for the win)
(20:50:55) Me: Gorillas has been ported to the NES, and it is called Solar Wars.
(20:51:19) AH: I'm more of a Scorched Earth man myself.
(20:51:32) AH: Or Gunbound when I can get to it.
(20:51:37) Me: Same thing. Sometime you should grab a friend and try Solar Wars.
(20:52:02) AH: Actually, this was this one fun low-gravity space-based one, whose name escapes me.
(20:52:26) Me: Solar Wars has about eight or nine skins, each with its own gravity.
(20:52:31) AH: Instead of one landscape at the bottom, the playfield was a bunch of planets of sorts.
(20:53:15) AH: And the gravity centered around any land masses, rather than leading down.
(20:53:28) Me: Interesting. But anyway:
http://www.zyx.com/chrisc/solarwars.html
(20:53:36) AH: It was the only SE/SW/Gorillas "clone" I ever got to work online.
(20:54:30) Me: Some NES emulators have netplay.
(21:03:11) AH: Okay, these controls make no sense.
(21:03:30) Me: How not?
(21:03:48) AH: I have the player on the left using 0 vertical power and maximum right horizontal power and he can't shoot right?
(21:04:09) Me: Try a bit more vertical power.
(21:04:46) Me: Shoot a cannon straight out in front of you and of course the shell will hit the ground quickly.
(21:05:11) AH: It's not a matter of how quickly it hits.
(21:05:34) AH: It's a matter of where. Why can't I aim right?
(21:05:54) Me: I don't know.
(21:06:05) Me: You may be missing something simple.
(21:06:26) AH: ...oh, I think I was confused by the fact that you can't see both players on the same screen.
(21:07:20) AH: Also, who aims with vertical and horizontal power?
(21:07:45) Me: What you're seeing is rectangular aiming. Some other games use polar aiming.
(21:08:21) AH: I think this is the only game that USES rectangular aiming.
(21:08:59) Me: And Super Mario 64 was the only 3D platformer at the time that used an analog joystick.
(21:09:19) AH: Apples and oranges.
(21:09:50) AH: That'd be like saying such and such was the only ballistics clone that used fractional units of measure.
(21:10:02) Me: What is your underlying implication about the game?
(21:10:21) Me: Just because something isn't an exact clone of something else doesn't mean that the difference is unacceptable.
(21:10:40) AH: A better comparison woulud be SM64 to SM64 DS, since (as far as I understand it) all the controls for the character are through the touch screen.
(21:11:23) Me: ok
(21:11:48) AH: Or, say, someone graduating to Pop'n Stage based solely on Beatmania/Pop'n experience.
(21:12:00) AH: Entirely different control scheme.
(21:13:15) AH: If I'm throwing something to you, I don't choose a point in space where you are (or where the arc passes through, I don't know what the rectangular coordinates in SW point to) and have at it.
(21:13:30) AH: I aim (angle) and hope I throw hard enough (power) to get it to you.
(21:14:21) Me: Actually, you use your pec (one component) and your tricep (another).
(21:14:48) Me: Elevation/power is just an abstraction that your brain uses.
(21:15:27) AH: That's like saying high-level languages are just abstractions for assembly.
(21:15:34) Me: Well they are
(21:15:38) AH: True.
(21:16:19) AH: But (please tell me this isn't a bad example) how are you programming Luminesweeper?
(21:16:54) AH: On how low a level are you coding?
(21:17:04) Me: It's in C, using libraries that I wrote myself (except for the boot code and the GSM audio decoder). It's not in Python like Pydance.
(21:17:13) Me: C is much closer to assembly than Python.
(21:17:31) AH: But it's still an abstraction.
(21:18:00) Me: Yes. Everything is an abstraction. But does that make the X/Y velocity control method worse for a ballistics game?
(21:18:32) AH: Your nervous system may throw in rectangular, but your rational mind must determine the coordinates for your legs (to turn you) and your arms/chest (to get it far enough).
(21:19:29) AH: Given the abstractions we use, yes, I have to say it does.
(21:20:20) Me: "Solar Wars sucks because rectangular aiming sucks because that's not what I'm used to." Is this your argument?
(21:21:09) AH: Solar Wars sucks because rectangular aiming sucks because that's not what I'm used to _in_real_life._ That's my argument.
(21:21:49) Me: Can I post this on the nesdev board?
(21:22:34) AH: I suppose.
So is there a specific reason why Solar Wars uses rectangular coordinates for velocity rather than the more familiar polar coordinates?