NESDev Compo THEME poll

NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170087)
This is to gauge how many people want a theme. Please vote and give your suggestions below.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170088)
My previous suggestions: I'm a bee (full size) and Water (size limited to 7K)
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170092)
I believe that a theme might result in fewer submissions, and the final lineup may feel a bit repetitive if certain elements are present in several games. Both of these issues might hurt the quality of the compilation cartridge. For a cartridge, the more varied the games are, the better.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170093)
I agree with everything tokumaru said. In addition, several of us have already started work on our entries.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170107)
For all previous volumes the theme came about naturally with the lineup of games in hand from what I recall.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170108)
Judging by the poll so far, we have a resounding NO.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170122)
Perhaps a theme might be better for off-year competitions.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170137)
Aw, man. If there's no theme, I have no ideas then. I'm gonna have a really hard time limiting myself to something realistic and not a seven level beat-em-up platformer that's way out of my scope.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170138)
Guilty wrote:
Aw, man. If there's no theme, I have no ideas then.

Why do your ideas depend on whether other people are using the same theme? Can't you just get your own theme?
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170139)
I missed about everything about the compo because it went way too fast and I missed loads of posts, however what about having a theme only in one of the cathegories?
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170142)
Guilty wrote:
Aw, man. If there's no theme, I have no ideas then.

You could go looking at past compos that have taken place, not limited to NES ones, and see if they give you any ideas.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170146)
For what it's worth, I don't think an optional theme would hurt at all, if the concern is not getting enough entries.

I actually think "water" and "bees" are both nice theme ideas, but a severe technical restriction like 7 kilobytes is not. Having an NROM and non-NROM category distinction is okay in my view, but I don't see the point in applying a theme differently to categories.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170148)
I'm not particularly crazy about the idea of even having an optional theme because it encourages a lack of variety. I don't feel that we're at the point of it being a viable option to have a "Christmas Compilation Cart", "Halloween Compilation Cart", "Arbor Day Compilation Cart", etc. I feel like at this point we should be encouraging as many different and unique experiences as somebody is willing and able to provide, not a limit in the possibilities of those experiences.

I'd say if ideas aren't someone's strong point and they feel that they need community assistance in that department, start a thread, talking about the games and gameplay elements you like and get feedback from the community, bouncing ideas and brainstorming, until it adds up to an idea you want to make.

Is 64KB or 8KB and basic mappers not enough of a limit?
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170158)
rainwarrior wrote:
I actually think "water" and "bees" are both nice theme ideas, but a severe technical restriction like 7 kilobytes is not.


A groaner
?
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170161)
We get it, the "water" kanji looks like "7K", but that doesn't make the restriction any more fun.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170162)
Guilty wrote:
Aw, man. If there's no theme, I have no ideas then.

Ideas are never scarce: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14117
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170163)
Quote:
Ideas are never scarce


I've been watching a lot of Let's Play videos on YouTube, looking for ideas. I also think it's useful to watch critics like AVGN, to get ideas about what NOT to do.

Also, I liked the original bee theme. If I make a submission, I was going to subtly put a bee in the background.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170199)
Again from a newcomers' perspective, i prefer either no themes or a 100% optional theme without any actual impact on the compo. I'm not even sure i can pull off a contribution, but i'd like to try. 'Still learning asm basics' is enough of a restriction for me, and i think this is more or less representative of the position of any newbie looking for a good opportunity to get into the scene.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170202)
WheelInventor wrote:
I'm not even sure i can pull off a contribution, but i'd like to try.

I wouldn't be surprised if some coders needed help with art for their entries. That often becomes a limiting factor in homebrew projects.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170204)
I don't care if there's a proposed theme as long as it is optional and not directly associated to a category.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170208)
@tepples

What's the point in a 7k/8k restriction, when a CHR page alone takes 8kb (and neslib takes 4kb)?

You can't really make a fun game with any art in 3kb, including a decompressor / procedural generator for the art. At that point it's more about asm wanking than making a game, IMHO ("look at what I could do" - that's fine, you're skilled, but 99% chance I won't want to play that).
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170209)
Definitely, a category or theme with such a restriction is directly aimed to skilled ASM coders. Being a C coder, it is not really an option to me.

Of course you can always trim neslib and only include what you need (I do it all the time to make lots of stuff fit in 32K!), but I guess that wouldn't be enough.

Unless the 7Kb category means "7Kb of PRG-ROM" with a separate CHR-ROM.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170212)
darryl.revok wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if some coders needed help with art for their entries. That often becomes a limiting factor in homebrew projects.

If there are any creative types looking for a coder, I'm game. I'm pretty sure I still count as a NES newbie, but I know my way around ASM at least.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170217)
Quote:
7Kb category


I'm pretty sure there WON'T be a 7k category.

Quote:
I think for now you can base it off the existing rules from the past compo with 2 categories. NROM and Anything Goes


Quote:
64k


It sounds like you can make a game with NROM sized ($8000) PRG, and another $8000 with whatever you want (CHR)...personally, I would fill the extra space with compressed graphics, or perhaps the music data, if for some reason it doesn't fit on the other bank (DMC files, for example).

And a second category for...Anything Goes.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170652)
Hmm, missed the time to say No. but it seems everyone else did, so.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170672)
A couple thoughts.

How about an award for "best use of ROM space"?

The award could be judged in two categories, objectively by total ROM space used, and subjectively on quality by judging. Then there would be a formula to decide how much each score valued to decide the winner.

Also, how about labeling the compo winners and their categories on the cart? This would be a prize which wouldn't cost anything, and a nice little incentive. Plus I feel like players would like it.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170676)
darryl.revok wrote:
A couple thoughts.
How about an award for "best use of ROM space"?

The award could be judged in two categories, objectively by total ROM space used, and subjectively on quality by judging. Then there would be a formula to decide how much each score valued to decide the winner.

I don't know if this would be best. We haven't ironed out the judging of the competition this year. The first year had a panel, and the second time was judged by the entrants. Depending on the number of entries, it would be difficult to judge, and it would take longer to judge. Obviously optimization is great, but in the spirit of this competition, we would rather see a complete entry, then a completely optimized entry.
darryl.revok wrote:
A couple thoughts.
Also, how about labeling the compo winners and their categories on the cart? This would be a prize which wouldn't cost anything, and a nice little incentive. Plus I feel like players would like it.

Great idea!
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170685)
darryl.revok wrote:
A couple thoughts.

How about an award for "best use of ROM space"?

So, figure out how to write an algorithm encoded by Tepples's CHR compression that, when run, will then transform another entryTepples's CHR decompression code into one's own final desired code?

Beat the compression ratio by figuring out where one can snip from everywhere else. So, kinda Cheetahmen/Action Game Master it up? ;)
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170688)
darryl.revok wrote:
Also, how about labeling the compo winners and their categories on the cart? This would be a prize which wouldn't cost anything, and a nice little incentive. Plus I feel like players would like it.


This is, in fact, an excellent idea!
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170691)
NESHomebrew wrote:
I don't know if this would be best. We haven't ironed out the judging of the competition this year. The first year had a panel, and the second time was judged by the entrants. Depending on the number of entries, it would be difficult to judge, and it would take longer to judge. Obviously optimization is great, but in the spirit of this competition, we would rather see a complete entry, then a completely optimized entry.

Hmm... this one took a different direction from what I was originally thinking. My thought was that some people wanted categories smaller than NROM, and I didn't know if there were any hold-outs for people who still wanted something like that. The thought was that the best of the little games could have it's own award, even if that's just a label on the cart.

Really, I'd rather see my second suggestion implemented than this one. This isn't even a category that I personally would try for. Just for clarification though, my thought was more of a focus on "best" rather than "use of space". Also to encourage more releases on the cart by having a judging category that would inspire people to make short entries over the course of a weekend or so.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170693)
That was the theory behind the "app" category last time. People can submit small games if they want, there is no restriction, but based on the submissions last time, I think most people are in agreement that keeping it to the 2 categories is good enough.

I think the 7k size restriction was just a bit of a joke based on the kanji symbol for water looking like 7K.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170695)
darryl.revok wrote:
Also, how about labeling the compo winners and their categories on the cart?

I already do this.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170696)
tepples wrote:
darryl.revok wrote:
Also, how about labeling the compo winners and their categories on the cart?

I already do this.

I see. I checked before posting but this is the first time I noticed the secondary menu. Sorry for the mistake.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170701)
I thought it meant on the physical cart (label)?

edit: Pic

Image
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170706)
There's only so much space on the Game Pak label, especially when there are two themes in one multicart. The first volume had two themes: the 2011 compo and relatively high-production-value reimaginings of Action 52 games (STREEMERZ was the only one), but there was no overlap. The second also had two: the 2014 compo and simultaneous multiplayer (which was emphasized down the middle).

Making a full listing of all games might make it look like a pirate multicart, Maxi 15 (Australia), 4-in-1 by Sachen, or the single game Palamedes (U), whose label looks like a manual page. My inspiration is more from the box art of Super Smash Bros. Melee, as well as other legit multicarts such as Donkey Kong Classics, Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt/World Class Track Meet, Super Mario Bros./Tetris/Nintendo World Cup, and Quattro Adventure.

The back of the box of a CIB edition would have more room to describe the included games, just as songs are credited on the back cover of an album.
Re: NESDev Compo THEME poll
by on (#170744)
Kandroock, my pal at the Mojon Twins who draws our cover art would be able to draw a picture representing *all* the games which could be user for cover art. I haven't reached him yet, but he's good at doing such mash ups or collages.