How to Submit Game to Indie Publishers

I'm currently working on a project that will eventually make it way to cart form. In the late game design phase and starting coding and asset creation (fonts, tiles, etc..)

I'm wondering how people go about enticing an indie publisher to bite. Does one make a flyer as if I was selling an Arcade game? Hand over the game design document? Submit a small demo ROM?

I don't think things are very formal... The guys who make these carts are pretty much hobbyists, just like the guys who program the games. I'd just email a demo ROM and ask if they are interested. They most likely won't care much until the game is close to finished though, since a lot of people don't finish their games.

I was actually kind of surprised at how that works. Part of my risk assessment for a project is figuring out the cost of production and capability of cart makers. I just assumed everyone starts with "can it be done?" first

Of course it would be better if someone that has actually gone through the process of publishing a game replied, as I'm just guessing! =)

Try asking retrousb in #nesdev on EFnet IRC.

Retrousb is a pretty straightforward dude. Has a page up with terms and everything. I'm actually more worried about impressing people like Super Fighter Team and Magical Game Factory blokes. They seem a bit closer to traditional publishing outfits. If anything from the homebrew scene can seem so

The publishers you mentioned don't look particularly special to me. They don't look anymore professional than any of the other hobbyists involved in this retro business. I know that many of these so called "publishers" don't even manufacture their own PCSs and cartridge cases, and still resort to recycling used carts... unlike Retrozone, who makes everything new.

Anyway, why do you feel like you need to impress them? Good retro games aren't so easy to come by, so if your game is on par with their quality standards they'll publish it, otherwise they won't. There's not much you can do to "impress" them other than making a quality game. If the game isn't good, there's nothing else you can do to change their minds.

Why exactly you need a publisher, in the first place? And why be an indie while you want to be dependent?

That one is not hard to figure out... It's no surprise that NES game developers want to see their work available in actual carts, with nice labels and all. Making a few bucks in the process wouldn't hurt either.

This could be done in many ways, having a publisher is not a must.

For example, I didn't do anything at all to get all my NES games be available on carts.

I don't know what your expectations are, but it's not easy to make money in indie games. Well, same in pro games as well, but the stakes are different there. At least half of all professional software projects fail, and for indie stuff it's even higher. I'm gonna presume that the time/cost to make the game is something you're writing off anyway because you're doing it on your own time because you love it, etc. Targeting the NES platform is not exactly the best business decision, though a very select few people seem to have made a decent living at it these days.

For these reasons I'm going to say just finish the game first. If you don't have experience and/or finished games to show off, no publisher is going to care about your game that is currently just ideas and sketches. Once it's done, or at least finished enough to be fun and playable, it should be fairly easy to sell to somebody who is in a proper position to publish that kind of game.

When you do sell it, negotiate a proper contract. Hire a lawyer to look over your contract.

If you make a hit game, or you've been involved in successful game projects before, it'll be a lot easier to convince people to look at your work, but until you have that to show, honestly, I've met a thousand people with ideas and just-started game projects -- these things aren't worth anything unless they belong to somebody who has already proven their ability to finish something.

Though, there's also kickstarter. The rules are different there. Regular people who aren't in the publishing business will vote with their hearts, so a good pitch from an unproven developer can get a good reaction there, sometimes. It's also very low risk. You might consider this route first. Also consider self publishing with this method; if you just want to build a small run of carts and get them into the world, this might be a good way to raise the modest funds you need to do so.

I've been around the homebrew communities long enough to realise the money aspect and don't consider myself a wide-eyed doe. I've had my share of failed projects and half baked ideas. After awhile you know when something can be followed through and when to drop it.

My goal is to make this game physically available to enthusiasts without cutting into rent or groceries. Phat loot or finding an inroad to EA Games doesn't even begin to enter the picture. I don't need to explain the buzz you get from completing a game you developed. I can't explain the excitement of holding a copy of Battle Kid or Hangman SG. These are all things we know and need to share.

I guess the consensus so far ranges from a small information packet to a demo ROM. Perhaps doing both would suffice.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Truly!

I'll give you Battle Kid, but Hangman? Seriously? It's freaking hangman, any programmer can code that in a day, I see absolutely no merit in having that in a cartridge.

I don't want to be mean to anyone, I'm sure the programmers were proud of themselves, and if the thing did sell, that proves that there was a market for it, but IMO that's not the kind of game that deserves a cartridge release, and it saddens me to think that better commercial games might have been sacrificed (for boards and shells) in order for this to be produced.

I'm sure it is possible to make a cool hangman game that probably will worth to put on a cartridge.

Right. This is doable. Personally, I've been making cartridges of my first NES project (with retrousb parts) and selling them at a price where I can make enough back on each cart to justify the labour involved. As Shiru was saying, you don't really need a publisher to accomplish this. It requires an initial investment of a few hundred dollars on tools and parts, but you can probably recover that on the sales of the first 30 carts or so. If you can get someone like retrousb to do the manufacturing/distribution work for you, they'll have lower overhead and can probably sell it for a lower price than you would doing it yourself.

What I don't quite understand is what you're seeking a publisher for at this stage, though. If your game isn't ready to sell, and you're going to finish it on your own anyway, what do you want from a publisher? Anyone could give you a no-commitment standing offer to publish your game "if it's good", but that would be no different than if you finished it anyway.

I was part of a startup game studio for about two years, and we pitched game ideas to publishers constantly, but we were asking them to pay us to make a game for them. If you don't need that, what is the publisher for at this stage?

"Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal suicide"
-- Billy Joel, "We Didn't Start the Fire"


GameTek disagreed, hiring Rare to develop an NES adaptation of a Hangman-based game show.


One way to get a game produced might be to get it into one of the bundles that infiniteneslives plans to produce. Streemerz is on the first bundle.


I guess to confirm that the cartridge board chosen for the game can be reproduced at a reasonable cost. For example, I discontinued Concentration Room at 0.02 when it turned out that boards with save support were a bit out of the price range I was considering.

I guess I may be giving off the wrong impression. I want to know how to approach a publisher. Not go after one at the beginning of the dev cycle.

I personally found Hangman SG cool. Not for the gameplay but the fact that it was possible in the first place. One man, one keyboard and one soldering gun. That's quite an achievement. I could give a fig if a Shove It! cart was scrapped for it.

No disrespect intended. Just my opinion. Everyone that has responded to this topic is a homebrew god in my eye.

I think so too, but have you checked the one he mentioned? There's absolutely nothing special about it other than a slightly charismatic stick figure. No animations, no cool interface... just a plain old beginner QBASIC looking game. I mean, if you're gonna use a beaten to death idea, at least add some twists and polishing to it in order to make it interesting.

In general, come up with a business proposition that makes sense, and then contact them in an appropriate way.

1. A big publisher will have a listed phone number, and a small hierarchy of people to work through before you'd reach somebody who could make a deal. Generally starts with leaving a message briefly explaining your proposal, and getting a call back later. When you've gotten far enough that they're interested, they'll begin a "due dilligence" process where they will want to see some of the insides of your operation, kick the tires, make sure it'll run before they'll negotiate a contract with you.

2. A small publisher might respond to e-mail or other contact methods. What they want to see or know will depend on who they are, but again, you should have a business plan to offer that you think would work for them.

3. There are self-publishing facilitators that will distribute for you for a small overhead fee (e.g. CDBaby). These places generally have an automated process, since in this case your own business model is usually irrelevant to them. This works best with digital distribution, but there are some that work with physical products.

4. Do it yourself. Make and distribute your own product, or pay someone to do part of all of it for you. This is sort of the same as 3, but it requires you to take all the risk yourself.

I made a Famicom Hangman game, but not all phrases are in so I asked for help to add more words/phrases, and then hopefully to eliminate the parts with trademark issues, so that it can put on cartridge. Maybe there are other hangman games for NES/Famicom but I make one of my own too, and is public domain so is free for help. I don't think can be submitted to Indie Publishers, but if I get a board, and Famicom keyboard and Famicom, I may be able to make the cartridge (currently I can only test on emulator).

Sorry, zzo38, but I really can't label that version as 'cool'. A cool one has to have a twist in the rules, good graphics, sound, music. An extremely large dictionary isn't actually needed to make a nice game of this kind.

I appreciate all the info rainwarrior! Trying to avoid the third option. Not handy with the soldering iron and don't have the eprom programmer. CDBaby sounds interesting but may be strictly music? I'd have to change platform to SegaCD too. That's probably a pretty niche market

I'm curious what the difference was in price point you found between "light" and "deluxe". Is there anything more than battery(50c?) + PRG RAM($2?) + MMC1($5 from retrousb?) ... Not that $7.50 in manufacturing cost is anything less than gargantuan....

Oh, CDBaby doesn't do video games. It was just an example of the turnkey publishing business model where they make a little money even if you don't sell anything.

Also, to clarify what I meant by a business proposition, I mean that you should answer these questions for them:

1. What are you offering to them?
2. Who much will it cost you and them?
3. Why and how is it profitable to you and them?
4. Why should they trust you?

That might be oversimplifying it, but that's more or less what I'd prepare, off the top of my head. Also don't forget that you need a reason to trust them as well.

I think that some people can't tell the difference between personal achievements and quality products. I can understand someone getting excited about being able to program for a system, but there's no reason to make a fuss over a program that prints "hello world" and changes the background color when a button is pressed. Similarly, it makes little sense to make a big fuss over a game as simple as hangman, specially if that involves sacrificing other games. Even if the games being sacrificed are total crap, they could be sacrificed for better things, so I see the sacrifice as a waste either way. I have nothing against people making carts for themselves, but things aimed at the general public (which isn't even that general in our case) must comply to higher standards, IMO.

Sorry for not explaining myself better. Two different concepts were meant to be conveyed: Pride in your own development and wonder of hand craftsmanship. I should have used a more popular homebrew as an example. I kind of forced you to go off-topic. Could we hear more about your opinion on approaching publishers?

To me, it boils down to "Make a great game. Who would want to publish a great game?". =)

Unless publishers assume that your game is not great simply because it's your first attempt at a commercial release, or because it was made in your home as opposed to a dedicated secure office.

There are several games that were made from home that have had commercial console releases (e.g. Super Meat Boy, Cave Story, Spelunky, etc.. The "office" thing is just an arbitrary excuse. The real reason is "we don't trust you". That said, somebody who can't afford to rent an office may be percieved as someone who has very little to lose, and a financial risk.

Though, if you ever really did get rejected from Nintendo's developer program for "not having an office", I'd bet money that if you actually got an office and nothing else had changed, they'd find another reason to reject you.

Super Fighter Team wanted to outright buy the Project MD copyright (not license, but outright take it). That much I can tell you. Needless to say, the response was a flatout "no". Also if I recall correctly they threatened somebody for posting a checksum of the ROM of one of their games. Not the ROM itself, but the checksum, which is completely worthless on its own.


That one was your average hangman game though =/ Moreover, if I recall correctly, it was more of a warm-up project to get accustomed to the system.


Actually, publishers want mostly complete games, but not finished. If it's too early then it's too risky to finance, if it's finished then they can't put any influence over it that can give them a legal advantage later.

That's big publishers though, homebrew publishers are different... though they generally want exclusivity licenses or something like that =P

My game does have sound effects and time limit though (but not much else, it is true). It is also public domain so if someone else want to make their own modification to this program and publish it that is OK with me.

What if you want self publishing, is it better in some ways?

Another possibility is even if no publishers will do it on NES/Famicom cartridge, it may be possible to publish it for use with emulators and include an emulator with it (for example, on Wii Virtual Console, on Windows PC, or whatever, with the proper emulator for each one; you can still sell cartridges too if you want to, I suppose).

Of course, self publishing gives you the most control but requires:
* Soldering/PCB making skill (or the price goes up)
* Substantial outlay of cash (especially if you do not personally make the boards + cart)
* Personally handling sales, shipping and support

All reasons why I was interested in advice approaching publishers

Just FYI I got a response back from CDBaby and they DO allow sales of CD based games. The only requirement is that I make it explicitly clear that my CD is a video game.

Can they make it a multisession CD with the soundtrack on the first session and the game on the second, so that it's also playable in a CD player?

I'm still researching how all this works, but, I think YOU master your own CD. I guess you ship off 5 copies of your master CD to them. So, whatever your target platform can put up with. I guess that'd be SegaCD if one can get Mairtrus's conversion code to work. DreamCast could include an emulator for the game so much easier. Whether you can order the tracks right for an average CD player.. Hmmmn..

Maybe I can answer this-


Both of those publishers do manufacture everything new, and both take everything quite seriously.
I had a pretty good experience working with Super Fighter Team on Zaku.
I've only chatted with Fonzie at WaterMelon a few times, but they seem to be a nice group.


This, this, a thousand times this. Especially the latter statement.

If you don't want to manufacture the carts yourself, just email all of them and pick whichever gives you the best deal.
But I cannot emphasize enough, if you have a character-based game only sell the distribution / publishing rights and make sure you keep the character licenses under your control.

With CD stuff, the Mysterious Song guys (on the PC Engine) got new CDs pressed. Maybe you could contact them and find out what manufacturer they used?

That's good to know. Thanks for the info.