So here's what I expect to happen - the system will be hacked in order to dump the Starfox 2 rom which will probably be the completely finished version Dylan Cuthbert referred to a couple years back. And if Nintendo can't (won't) make enough units to meet demand, it would serve them right.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/0 ... does_existAnyway, too bad Chrono Trigger isn't on there, but FFIII (really VI) is great; just wondering if it has the infamous evade bug patched. And it really should've been DKC2 instead of DKC. Otherwise there's nothing I'd change about the title selection.
I'd guess it would be the version with the Sketch bug fixed but the evade bug intact.
Oh yeah, that evade bug. I wondered why Terra and Celes were blocking everything those dinosaurs could throw their way while Sabin and Shadow kept getting pasted...
As for DKC2, it would be great to have it (plus four or nine more great games, maybe even including DKC3, to get back to a round number), but replacing DKC with it is dubious. You don't even play as Donkey Kong... it would be like having Yoshi's Island instead of Super Mario World.
I wonder if there will be a way to add new games to this one (probably not). Chrono Trigger is a pretty glaring omission; it's the first thing anyone says when they see that list...
...well, I guess I'm okay with these things not including every legendary game. Allows us original console owners to continue looking down our noses at the kiddies, y'know?
...
...just as soon as Star Fox 2 comes out on cartridge. If it's the fabled final version, that's big.
DKC2 is so polished and more elaborately designed as to make DKC look kinda bland (which doesn't mean DKC is a bad game so much as DKC2 was a great sequel). Just a few things it added:
-Team attacks
-Jumping out of water (this in particular makes DKC look more primitive)
-An actual objective for the bonus areas
-More varied backdrops and atmospherics
-Miscellaneous gameplay elements (big bouncy tires, hot-air balloons, wind)
-Upgraded Squawks
But yeah, it probably made more sense to keep DKC for name recognition. YI and SMW are too different to really say one is superior.
Oh, and I'm glad it has Megaman X instead of X2 or 3 because that game got it right the first time.
You're definitely right about DKC2 > DKC. Screw Donkey Kong, Diddy and Dixie is a far better duo. (Instead of using Diddy the whole game and switching for two seconds to take out a Krusha.) There's just so much more polish and creativity in the game; each level feels distinct and all the gimmicks work. (Well, maybe not Web Woods...) A harder comparison to me is DKC vs DKC3. DKC3 shares a lot of the great aspects of DKC2, but feels cheap in comparison to the first game, never mind the second.
Also, forget Chrono Trigger, where's R-Type III?
(I re-looked at the games list, and wtf is Super Punchout doing on a list of only 21 games to represent the SNES?)
You know what, this is an obvious conclusion, but internally, it's probably identical to the NES Classic.
...say, that's a good point. There are exactly zero 2D shmups on that list. At least the NES Classic had Gradius, and Galaga if that counts...
DKC3 is almost as good as 2 and it's interesting how it has a much lighter tone: There's nothing creepy or ethereal but if anything it does a better job of getting the adrenaline up like "Stampede Sprint" and "Kong-Fused Cliffs". Plus it breaks away almost completely from having blown-up regular bad guys as the bosses and even uses a mini-game mechanic for a boss fight. The trading system adds more variety than just getting another bonus coin from the bosses. But no, it's not a huge leap over the last game. They're more like peanut butter and jelly.
Oh, and it has the best partner system of the three games, for certain.
Starfox 1 and 2 don't really fill the shmup quotient, do they. Axelay or Space Megaforce would've been great. But if it had to be 20 games (plus Starfox 2) I'm not sure I'd cut any for a shmup because with the exception of maybe Super Punch-Out and Kirby's Dream Course they all represent the cream of the system's library. And Super Punch-Out was probably not going to be dropped for a third-party title.
I'm surprised OP doesn't link to it, but here's the official page with the game list:
http://www.nintendo.com/super-nes-classicIt's a fine collection, in my view. My two favourite games (ever) are on it. It's a nice box with nice controllers (
why not detachable this time?*). Maybe a decent value if you don't have to pay scalper prices.
Like anybody else, there are some SNES games I have some extreme love for that aren't on here (Actraiser II) but I don't think the list itself is the problem-- it's just that they made yet another
disposable console that can never get more games.
Yeah, I'm sure it'll be cracked, but I've already got plenty of nice ways to emulate games. I'd rather see some sort of permanent license arrangement like GoG / Steam instead of Nintendo's practice of dishonouring all your purchases with each new console. I've already bought several of those games on multiple platforms already, and I've kind of had enough of that.
The Disney Afternoon Collection on Steam is a much better deal than this in my view... but maybe it's because I don't care at all about the box it comes in.
Nice that Starfox 2 will get a release, though. A "gift" (unwilling) from Nintendo to the emulation community.
* Edit: not sure if the controllers are detachable. I may have been misinformed.
rainwarrior wrote:
Nice that Starfox 2 will get a release, though. A "gift" (unwilling) from Nintendo to the emulation community.
Maybe a "gift" to whoever sharing the proto ROMs by sending them a giant letter with giant letters "C" and "D" written on it thereafter. But yeah, the supposedly completed game eventually getting an official release is nice, no matter what.
Edit:rainwarrior wrote:
It's a nice box with nice controllers (why not detachable this time?).
Hmm? Is it mentioned anywhere they're not detachable?
From the official page:
Quote:
The Super NES Classic Edition is compatible with the Classic Controller™ and Classic Controller Pro™ accessories. Just plug it in and play!
From my understanding they're detachable, using the original connectors even (unless those "Classic" controllers are new products with "modern" connectors such as USB.)
Gilbert wrote:
From my understanding they're detachable, using the original connectors even (unless those "Classic" controllers are new products with "modern" connectors such as USB.)
I read something earlier where it was said they were not removable, but I don't remember who said it, and it's possible they were incorrectly interpreting it anyway, so maybe I should retract that statement.
I've just checked. Even the
NES Classic had detachable controller (note: no 's') but ONLY ONE controller was included, to rip you off in paying US$10 more for another controller. Seeing that the SNES Classic will give you two detachable controllers it seems to be a better deal.
It's unfortunate that though the Japanese
Famicom Mini included both controllers, for
authentic reasons, they're not detachable, and that PAD2 did not provide the Select and Start buttons. Seeing that it mentioned the MIC won't work anyway, how "authentic" the thing was is questionable. They should have identical detachable controllers on both ports like how they did in the later redesign of the Famicom. Seeing that the "expansion port" is probably just a decoration, it couldn't even use other controllers such as those, say, with autofire capability(without modding).
Never though SF2/SW2 would come out.
I think with DKC there might be 2 factors. Donkey Kong is Nintendo owned, while I think Diddy and Trixie and what ever the baby was called is Rare owned. So in the break-up Nintendo got DKC 100%(even though it does have Diddy) while Rare kept a solid piece of the pie for DKC2 and 3. So putting 1 might be easier for them than 2 or 3. Also when one speaks of a thing for collecting, people tend to go after the first one, as its the one that started it all, even when the first one is a mess and the 5th is the best.
Licensing problems aside, for the DKC case I think it would be odd to not include the 1st game but only the 2nd, unless both (or three if the 3rd game is also included) games are included.
While many games on the list are sequels to earlier games, the 1st games in their series released for this system will always be included, except maybe FF3/6/whatever, but that doesn't matter much as the FF games weren't that related anyway (TBH FF2/4 looked like a Famicom game and it probably wouldn't be that appealing).
Gilbert wrote:
(TBH FF2/4 looked like a Famicom game and it probably wouldn't be that appealing).
I'm not sure which of these two games has more cultural cachet.
I've replayed FF4 many more times than FF6. I actually enjoy it more, even though FF6 does have much better art and sound, and a battle system that isn't quite as completely broken. A lot of things about it are just more "fun" to me.
FF4 even got a DS remake, and an official (bad) sequel.
Actually since I never owned a SFC I've never really played either of these FF games (and I'm never a fan of the series anyway), but personally after "checking" with emulators I liked FF5 the most (which won't be included in the list for obvious reasons). FF4 looked terrible even for an early title(and the lack of Kanji in the text just made it unplayable to me), FF6 looked "drab" with its dark graphics and FF5 looked just right with bright, colourful and not overly detailed visuals, and its opening was AWESOME, which I would occasionally fired the game up just to watch it.
The only FF game that I've ever managed to finish was the GBA version of FF4, which at least had updated visual that wasn't as primitive as the original and Kanji support, but this was the version that was broken...
Too bad none of the DQ games for the system were released in the west, otherwise I'd like to see them more than any of the Square games.
Yeah but that intro, and they march with mode 7 floor, while Terra's theme plays, and she is under mine control and it soo sad and its the flipping opening. The tune still haunts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGC_EzojK6EPersonally and I get that it has SDD-1 but I think adding Star Ocean would have been a really really nice option, I mean if we are going to SW2, why not? or even Tales...
Terranigma is my favourite SNES RPG, and I would prefer to see it over FF6 or CT. Given the USA never got it, it would be nice for them to finally get a "proper release" just as we are now getting a proper release of "SMRPG"
Japanese version. Interesting how some of the titles differ. It's a bit odd to not include a Dracula game though (whether it's good or not).
And from the photos we clearly see that the controllers are full sized, probably in every way identical to the original ones, which is a good thing.
Gilbert wrote:
Japanese version. Interesting how some of the titles differ. It's a bit odd to not include a Dracula game though (whether it's good or not).
And from the photos we clearly see that the controllers are full sized, probably in every way identical to the original ones, which is a good thing.
Yes, the controllers for the NES classic were like that too.
Here's the game lists:
Both:
- Contra 3: The Alien Wars
- Donkey Kong Country
- F-Zero
- Final Fantasy 6
- Kirby Super Star
- Mega Man X
- Secret of Mana
- Star Fox
- Star Fox 2
- Super Ghouls n Ghosts
- Super Mario Kart
- Super Mario RPG
- Super Mario World
- Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
- Super Metroid
- Street Fighter 2 (SFC: Super SF2, SNES: SF2 Turbo)
- The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
SFC:
- Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem
- Legend of the Mystical Ninja
- Panel de Pon
- Super Soccer
SNES:
- EarthBound
- Kirby’s Dream Course
- Super Castlevania IV
- Super Punch-Out!!
rainwarrior wrote:
Yes, the controllers for the NES classic were like that too.
It was not for the Japanese version, for authentic reasons, again, otherwise the controllers could not rest on the sides of the console like the original. Coupling with the fact that you couldn't even swap the controllers in that version it's a real bummer.
Edit:The list is actually different in *five* games. Note that the versions of Street Fighter II included in the two lists aren't even the same iteration.
Pretty good lineup, only lacking Harvest Moon, at least that I miss right now.
PANEL DE PON - WHAT GIVE ME...... well Tetris Attack, but yeah okay tetris license and lawsuit etc so I will take the Panel de pon version....
Fire Emblem would also be nice, but I agree very niche on the SNES
Am I the only one to prefer DKC to DKC2 ? Sure I prefer the music of DKC2 because it's amazing, but the game as a whole I prefer the original, it's less insanely hard and sadistic.
Gilbert wrote:
Actually since I never owned a SFC I've never really played either of these FF games [...], but personally after "checking" with emulators I liked FF5 the most
FF5 is definitely the best of the SNES trilogy, even though the other 2 are awesome too.
[url]The only FF game that I've ever managed to finish was the GBA version of FF4, which at least had updated visual that wasn't as primitive as the original and Kanji support, but this was the version that was broken...
[/url]
So as a chinese native, you can understand japanese just by looking at the kanjis ?
Quote:
Terranigma is my favourite SNES RPG, and I would prefer to see it over FF6 or CT.
Terranigma is a great game, but is being a A-RPG makes it not quite comparable to regular J-RPGs like FF6 and CT...
Quote:
Personally [...] I think adding Star Ocean would have been a really really nice option, [...] why not? or even Tales...
To be honest Star ocean, although it has the best graphics of any SNES/SFC game, is rather average as a game. The battle system is totally broken and the story super-confusing. Each dungeon is basically a super-annoying labyrinth where you'll have a hard time if you're a completionist like me and WANT to get each treasure. Even if you don't care about treasures you'll still have no idea where to go and be lost among lot of reused screens.
Tales of Phansia, almost by the same team of people although they were in a different company, is way better; better battle system and better story. The dungeons are still labyrinthic, but it doesn't get as ridiculous as Star Ocean (either that or I lost my patience between the playthrough of both games...)
Quote:
Too bad none of the DQ games for the system were released in the west, otherwise I'd like to see them more than any of the Square games.
They were released on the Nintendo DS rather recently - and the remakes are likely to not be so much of a grindfest as their original counterparts.
93143 wrote:
As for DKC2, it would be great to have it (plus four or nine more great games, maybe even including DKC3, to get back to a round number), but replacing DKC with it is dubious. You don't even play as Donkey Kong... it would be like having Yoshi's Island instead of Super Mario World.
....But DKC2 is the good one. DKC1 is, well, "overrated" at least. The improvements they made for the sequel is absolutely mindboggling and makes the original come across like an awkward prototype.
Gilbert wrote:
Licensing problems aside, for the DKC case I think it would be odd to not include the 1st game but only the 2nd, unless both (or three if the 3rd game is also included) games are included.
The NES Mini included Super Contra, but not Contra.
rainwarrior wrote:
I've replayed FF4 many more times than FF6. I actually enjoy it more, even though FF6 does have much better art and sound, and a battle system that isn't quite as completely broken. A lot of things about it are just more "fun" to me.
FF4 even got a DS remake, and an official (bad) sequel.
Funny. The battles is pretty much the one thing I like better in FF4 than FF6. They are generally a lot more tactical, where FF6 is more about building your characters as strong as possible. I love both games though. FF4 is maybe even a little underappreciated.
Bregalad wrote:
Am I the only one to prefer DKC to DKC2 ? Sure I prefer the music of DKC2 because it's amazing, but the game as a whole I prefer the original, it's less insanely hard and sadistic.
There's nothing insanely hard and sadistic about DKC2? It's a relatively easy (but challenging) game, and only the "Lost world" stages get really difficult - and even then, they do it extremely fairly and in a way that makes it fun to try again and again until you get it.
DKC1 on the other hand is extremely unfair in many places. It's not a hard game by any means, if anything it's probably a little too easy to really be entertaining, but you'll still die a lot due to unfair enemy placement and an unfair camera paired with absolutely huge sprites. Apart from generally just
much better level design in the sequel, one of the most important improvements was actually simply controlling the camera much better. Especially the underwater stages in DKC1 were just happy to kill you by spawning an enemy into the screen so fast that you were unable to react to it with your limited swimming controls if you were in an unfortunate position. That's just plain bad design, no matter how you look at it. I even recorded a video demonstrating it:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/41702875Fortunately Rare were obviously aware of these shortcomings and did a lot to fix it for the sequel.
DKC2 in general had a lot more meat to it. Much more fun secrets to go for, longer stages with a lot more variation and creative ideas all the way through. It's a big, solid game compared to DKC1's linear string of mostly forgettable stages.
I wont tell you that you are "wrong" for preferring DKC1, I guess it has things some people will prefer, but I'm unable to see it myself. The only change for the worse I can think of is that the Diddy/Donkey buddy duo actually made more sense, since in DKC2 Diddy has absolutely no advantages that would make you want to use him over Dixie's propeller-float. He's more of a back-up armor. That's one thing they fixed for DKC3, despite all the hate Kiddy Kong is usually getting (and to be fair, I don't see why they couldn't use Donkey/Dixie).
Quote:
There's nothing insanely hard and sadistic about DKC2?
Well there's lost of wasps everywhere, there was this mine level with wasps all over the place, one wrong move and you're either dead or you fall from 12 floors and have to redo everything again, I was frustrated here. The lava levels were insane too, you are supposed to pass over pits with an air balloon WHILE avoiding wasps.
DKC1 can also get frustrating but at least the first half of the game is beatable, it's only in the industrie era that I was unable to progress anymore and had to resort to save states. DKC2 it's already on the 2nd world where I can't progress anymore. The only major problem I can see in DKC1 is that the newer stages are basically harder versions of earlier stages, re-using graphics a lot.
Quote:
It's a relatively easy (but challenging) game
This is like, not a contradiction at all
Quote:
It's a big, solid game compared to DKC1's linear string of mostly forgettable stages.
Both games are just as linear - stages are revisitable but beating one stage just gives access to the next one; I don't think DKC2 had multiple paths or anything like that (if it had them it's only in later stages then).
Oh, DKC2 is linearly structured (not counting the Lost World, which is accessed through minor branching routes throughout), but where DKC1 has you just complete one stage at a time never looking back, DKC2 will have you go back and forth more, buying hints from Cranky and retrying stages to find more secrets. Not as a grind, but because it's fun, and because once you've beaten a stage, doing it again is almost always a breeze.
If you gave up on DKC2 after the second world, you're missing out on pretty much the entire game, and I think you're making invalid assumptions about it. When you called the game hard, I actually thought you were talking about stuff like everyone's favourite insta-kill stage, Screech's Sprint, or the devilish Animal Antics.
The fact that you are even considering resorting to savestates and using them to play through either game will easily give you the wrong experience about the game's design. Especially minor unfair design elements such as the ones I talked about in my previous post will be a non-issue, but at the same time the stages that are actually challenging in a fair and fun way, will also be lost to someone relying on savestates.
DKC2 is, as I said, challenging, but it's NOT a hard game, and no, that's not a contradiction. I don't think you're this bad at video games, that's definitely not the impression I've been getting from you (even though we also disagreed on Castlevania)
I think you may just have been a bit too quick to give up on this game, maybe due to a more "casual" approach than the game really deserves?
Sit down, make sure you have the time to really get into it, and delve into DKC2 over a couple of sessions to play through all of it. Preferably on a real SNES, so savestates aren't even an option. It's a great game, I promise. And much easier than Castlevania.
As for what games should have been included, I'd say Chrono Trigger, Illusion of Gaia, and Turtles in Time.
Chrono Trigger is a huge omission, but it has FF6, so who can really complain. One out of two of Square's biggest classic titles of all time is pretty big.
strat wrote:
So here's what I expect to happen - the system will be hacked in order to dump the Starfox 2 rom which will probably be the completely finished version Dylan Cuthbert referred to a couple years back. And if Nintendo can't (won't) make enough units to meet demand, it would serve them right.
I hope they do release the ROM Cuthbert identified in his Nintendo Life 2015 interview. Then I hope someone would hack the SNES mini and dump it so it can be played on original hardware. But, before anyone pats themselves on the back for having the final release at last, they would have to pour through the game and restore any flashing effects Nintendo likes to remove from their re-releases to lessen the likelihood of triggering epileptic seizures.
Yeah, DKC2 isn't that hard and is far from "sadistic". Sadistic is F-Zero GX's story mode on very hard.
The Squaks section of Animal Antics made me want to snap my controller in half though...
When Sumez said DKC2 was less linear, I think he meant the stage design? The only non-linear stages in the original DKC are the water levels and Slip Slide Ride, whereas DKC2 has horizontal, vertical, and square shaped levels.
Bregalad wrote:
So as a chinese native, you can understand japanese just by looking at the kanjis ?
Why? That's just obvious. Kanji literally means Chinese characters.
Quote:
To be honest Star ocean, although it has the best graphics of any SNES/SFC game, is rather average as a game.
I remembered "testing" SO on an emulator and was close to completion but got side tracked by item crafting, which I actually meant... making food... a lot of them. See, it may not be a great game, but it's like those modern game with some collection aspect (whether collecting stuff IS the objective of the game like those mobile card collecting games, or as a side feature of the game just to lengthen it, doesn't really matter) which made players addicted in doing the same thing repeatedly again and again. I still haven't completed the game to this day...
Quote:
Quote:
Too bad none of the DQ games for the system were released in the west, otherwise I'd like to see them more than any of the Square games.
They were released on the Nintendo DS rather recently - and the remakes are likely to not be so much of a grindfest as their original counterparts.
So are the FF games, and even more terrible the FF games are remade to death on every single device under the sun. They probably will port the games to run on a refrigerator if they have the chance. The music in DQ also pwn FF in any way possible (though the DQ tunes are all best done with full real orchestration and the synthesized versions couldn't do them justice). I do like some tunes in FF5 though. The musics in the FF series just aren't my thing.
Gilbert wrote:
Bregalad wrote:
So as a chinese native, you can understand japanese just by looking at the kanjis ?
Why? That's just obvious. Kanji literally means Chinese characters.
That's like saying English speakers should be able to read Latin because we use Latin characters
(yes, yes, I know, Roman characters are not pictographic and Chinese ones are)
I suppose it's a little like reading
Uncleftish Beholding is for an English speaker...except even worse, because English didn't just borrow words from German, it's a close cousin of it, but Chinese and Japanese aren't at all part of the same language family or anything. So maybe more like if you tried to write English with only French and Latin words, like
these folks did:
Quote:
Aqua. Terra. Flame. Air.
Long passed, le quad-nation livet ensembled in harmony.
Subsequentmly, toutchose modifiet quand le Flame Nation attacket.
Solemly le avatar, master de tout quad-element, wera able at halt les,
mais quand le monde besoinet luy plus, illi disappearet.
Cent annos passet et my fratern et ego discoveret le nouveu avatar,
an air-manipulator named Aang.
Et bien ke lois air-manipulating abilities sont excellent,
illi have much at estudie prior illi is prepared at save quelcon-an.
Mais ego creed Aang is able at save le monde.
But I'd expect even
that to be easier, because English and the Romance languages are at least both Indo-European.
Gilbert wrote:
rainwarrior wrote:
Yes, the controllers for the NES classic were (full size).
It was not for the Japanese version, for authentic reasons, again, otherwise the controllers could not rest on the sides of the console like the original. Coupling with the fact that you couldn't even swap the controllers in that version it's a real bummer.
Oh wow, that's unfortunate. They are even hard wired like the Famicom too?
I can see why they'd do that, pursuing the goal of "mini Famicom" more than making the most functional device, ha ha. Though, maybe that's what someone would prefer if this was like a collectible display toy, rather than something they really want to play on. Depends on your priorities...
Gilbert wrote:
The list is actually different in *five* games. Note that the versions of Street Fighter II included in the two lists aren't even the same iteration.
Oh okay, I had assumed it was just the same game with a different name. I didn't know there was a separate Super Street Fighter II and Super Street Fighter II Turbo. Too many versions of this game!!!
The only one I ever had for SNES was the original Street Fighter II.
Quote:
Oh okay, I had assumed it was just the same game with a different name. I didn't know there was a separate Super Street Fighter II and Super Street Fighter II Turbo. Too many versions of this game!!!
Super Street Fighter II Turbo wasn't released on the SNES. The US Mini comes with Street Fighter II Turbo, not Super Street Fighter II Turbo. Confusing enough for you?
Three versions of
Street Fighter II were released for Super NES:
- Street Fighter II, with mirror matches accessible through a code
- Street Fighter II Turbo, with even greater speeds accessible through a code
- Super Street Fighter II, with a very minor Group Battle feature accessible through a code
Super Turbo never reached 16-bit mainstream consoles because at the time, Capcom couldn't squeeze the new features into the largest practical cartridge for Genesis and Super NES. But it was on the 32-bit CD systems.
adam_smasher wrote:
That's like saying English speakers should be able to read Latin because we use Latin characters
(yes, yes, I know, Roman characters are not pictographic and Chinese ones are)
Awww well. Though they're regarded as different systems, Japanese, when written in mostly Kanji,
is Chinese, at least 80% of the time (unlike Latin/Greek/whatever derivatives like Spanish/English/German/etc., which are not so "compatible"). So, Japanese passages with a lot of Kanji in them are relatively easy for Chinese to understand, just that we may not know how to
pronounce them. This was also the case for Korean, in which all the texts were 100% Chinese. Well... until they invented their own funny written characters that is.
Okay, came up with two more missed titles besides Harvest Moon. Lost Vikings 1 and 2.
Those are good games, but I wouldn't call either of them obvious choices for this product. Especially Lost Vikings would be the only games by western publishers (DKC is of course developed by Rare, but it's still a Nintendo property)
Gilbert wrote:
Why? That's just obvious. Kanji literally means Chinese characters.
Well, my native language is French, which is written using latin characters, and I can't understand most languages written with latin characters. (Not counting languages I learned or am learning, obviously !). The only expetion might be Spanish and Portugese which are sort-of understandable because they are similar enough to french in written form (but definitely not in oral form !).
Also I thought the Kanji used in japanese differed greatly since they use "only" about 2000 characters while Chinese seems to use 10 times more.
Bregalad wrote:
Also I thought the Kanji used in japanese differed greatly since they use "only" about 2000 characters while Chinese seems to use 10 times more.
No. They're mostly identical, and you need to know around 1000(maybe even fewer) only to write natively in Chinese. I think apart from professors specialised in language, not a single Chinese can write more than 5000 characters.
Anyway, to be more on topic. I think Mother 2 is also a cult classic in Japan, so it would be odd to leave that out while including Earthbound in the west, considering that the first (until recently) and the third (is it still so?) games were not even released in the west. Maybe by swapping it with a Fire Emblem game they think there are enough RPGs already. Maybe also because of the numerous cultural references they just avoid re-releasing it so many times to keep them away from lawyers (AFAIK the western version was edited to reduce the potential for copyright infringement).
The same could be said for Panel de Pon, that having the word "Tetris" in the title alone makes it impossible to be re-released (unless they edit this out or just release the original Japanese game) in the west. This is a bit unfortunate, that the western edition comes with no puzzle game then (the NES/Famicom Classic at least had Dr Mario).
Another thing is that this time the console comes with two controllers (as opposed to only one in NES Class, and though the Famicom Mini had two controllers there were many other disadvantages as discussed earlier) and being able to play 2-player games out of the box is a selling point of it, but I think the current lineup is a bit lacking in multi-player games. The Japanese list seems to be a bit better, by including Goemon, Panel de Pon and Formation Soccer(I'm not very sure but I think these games all support using a second controller?). Do Kirby Dream Course and Super Punch Out support two players? Personally I think a party game like Bomberman would be great(maybe even replacing Formation Soccer).
Dream Course is a very good 2 player game, I think better as that than its 1 player part. (I kinda want to make an NES game like Dream Course.)
Super Punch Out is 1 player only. (Though I think it is a fantastic game. ...but I absolutely hated NES Punch Out so maybe I have a weird opinion here.)
You definitely have the weird opinion here, Rainwarrior.
rainwarrior wrote:
Both:
- Contra 3: The Alien Wars
-
Donkey Kong Country -
F-Zero -
Final Fantasy 6 -
Kirby Super Star (…via remake, so kinda?) -
Secret of Mana -
Star Fox -
Super Mario Kart -
Super Mario RPG -
Super Mario World -
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island -
Super Metroid -
Street Fighter 2 (SFC: Super SF2, SNES: SF2 Turbo) -
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - Mega Man X
- Star Fox 2
- Super Ghouls n Ghosts
(eh, kinda?)
SFC:
- Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem
- Legend of the Mystical Ninja
- Panel de Pon
-
Super Soccer
(…maybe)
SNES:
- EarthBound
- Kirby’s Dream Course
- Super Castlevania IV
- Super Punch-Out!!
How irksome; the ones I want most (and don't have already) are nigh-all version exclusives.
I wonder who's getting the money on the StarFox 2 contract argonaut was allegedly screwed out of.
I also expect that someone will find a privilege escalation via Sketch Glitch.
Sketch in FF6 1.0 is already patched.
There are arbitrary code execution bugs in
Super Mario World that have been exploited to heck and back, to the point of being able to
load an approximation of Super Mario Maker through the controller port and hook it into the engine of a later revision of SMW. And I'm suspecting that the search for ACE bugs in the SA-1 based
Super Mario RPG may soon heat up, as a different Super NES emulator was exploited through a defect in its SA-1 DMA implementation.
tepples wrote:
Three versions of
Street Fighter II were released for Super NES:
- Street Fighter II, with mirror matches accessible through a code
- Street Fighter II Turbo, with even greater speeds accessible through a code
- Super Street Fighter II, with a very minor Group Battle feature accessible through a code
You left out the most important differences:
Regular SF2: Eight fighters + four non-playable bosses.
Turbo: All 12 fighters playable.
Super: The old 12 fighters + four new ones playable.
In SF2 the bosses were playable with a cheat code but not in a way that was balanced with the others; they were the set of controls that were set up for the AI to use, not intended to be used in competition. e.g. Sagat's fireballs were executed directly with a punch button.
(Edit: am I remembering this correctly? I can't seem to find evidence that you could do this, but I definitely played a Street Fighter II where this happened somehow...)
Not really. Maybe through game genie codes or pirated versions. The original game alowed mirror matches through a code at the capcom logo and that's it, no controlable bosses, ever.
Myask wrote:
I wonder who's getting the money on the StarFox 2 contract argonaut was allegedly screwed out of.
Argonaut probably got paid to make the game and all rights and royalties are nintendo's. So nintendo is the one that got "screwed" for paying someone to make a game for two years and then keep it secret and never release.
Hm. Maybe it was something I did in an emulator later, or even with the arcade version as a MAME cheat or something...? I'm really confused as to how I did this now, ha ha.
Oh, something else I remember from the Turbo vs original versions, they added in the wooden barrel bonus round that was in the arcade but the first SNES SF2 was missing.
DRW wrote:
tepples wrote:
Three versions of
Street Fighter II were released for Super NES:
- Street Fighter II, with mirror matches accessible through a code
- Street Fighter II Turbo, with even greater speeds accessible through a code
- Super Street Fighter II, with a very minor Group Battle feature accessible through a code
You left out the most important differences:
Regular SF2: Eight fighters + four non-playable bosses.
Turbo: All 12 fighters playable.
Super: The old 12 fighters + four new ones playable.
One category of differences is that Super has a lot of animations cut down, even more so than the first two home releases. For this reason first-generation ports of Turbo and even Champion Edition are often preferred over ports of Super to the same console.
rainwarrior wrote:
In SF2 the bosses were playable with a cheat code [...]
(Edit: am I remembering this correctly? [...])
This was just a Game Genie code, not something that you can accomplish with the game regularly.
(There are also at least two ROM hacks where this was done.)
OK this post is going to be similar to my Famicom World post, so sorry about that.
Gilbert wrote:
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Too bad none of the DQ games for the system were released in the west, otherwise I'd like to see them more than any of the Square games.
They were released on the Nintendo DS rather recently - and the remakes are likely to not be so much of a grindfest as their original counterparts.
So are the FF games, and even more terrible the FF games are remade to death on every single device under the sun. They probably will port the games to run on a refrigerator if they have the chance. The music in DQ also pwn FF in any way possible (though the DQ tunes are all best done with full real orchestration and the synthesized versions couldn't do them justice). I do like some tunes in FF5 though. The musics in the FF series just aren't my thing.
I love the FF series and especially the music, but: DQ > FF
I really think DQ V should be on any top 10 Super Famicom list, although I understand they don't want to split up the DQ IV, V and VI trilogy and DQ IV has no Super Famicom version.
Chrono Trigger also qualify for representing the Sufami but I guess that would be too many RPGs.
Although Panel de Pon and Fire Emblem are welcome additions I think the Japanese version seems to me to be the inferior one this time around (unlike the Famicom mini):
Panel de Pon instead of Kirby's Dreamcourse (±0)
Fire Emblem instead of Earthbound (±0)
Goemon instead of Castlevania IV (-1)
Formation Soccer instead of Super Punch-Out (-1)
Super Street Fighter II instead of Street Fighter II Turbo (-1)
So I give -3 points to the Japanese version compared to the English ones. And the American gets -5 for being ugly so the PAL version comes out on top (the emulated SNES is supposedly NTSC and the ROMs are identical to the US version).
I'm not really planning to get it for the games though (except Star Fox 2), as I already have most of them and can easily get the other ones and play them on real hardware, so I might as well just get the Japanese version anyway.
Bregalad wrote:
Gilbert wrote:
Why? That's just obvious. Kanji literally means Chinese characters.
Well, my native language is French, which is written using latin characters, and I can't understand most languages written with latin characters. (Not counting languages I learned or am learning, obviously !). The only expetion might be Spanish and Portugese which are sort-of understandable because they are similar enough to french in written form (but definitely not in oral form !).
Don't think latin letters they only contain sounds, think of ideograms like number characters, they have meaning. The character "5" has the same meaning in all written languages that uses it AFAIK, but it's pronounced differently in different languages.
Japanese and Chinese grammar are very different though, so I guess a Chinese reading a Japanese text requires lots of guesswork.
Pokun wrote:
Japanese and Chinese grammar are very different though, so I guess a Chinese reading a Japanese text requires lots of guesswork.
Actually given enough Kanjis appearing in the sentence, not that much of guessworks are needed. Grammar isn't
that important in Chinese and Japanese and most of them just differ in the order of the phrases, which is nothing as in many cases the positions of phrases of either language can be exchanged without altering the meaning. Bonus point for Japanese sentences actually arranged more like ancient written Chinese, so maybe this is where some kids nowadays would have problems.
Edit:I didn't notice that the Japanese version lacks Super Akumajo Dracula earlier, but I can understand that. Goemon is probably more popular there so this is a logical choice. I think both Dracula games were considered black sheep in Japan, that the first game had too many things altered (like the control scheme for example) to make it recognisable as an Akumajo game and Dracula XX was terribly trimmed down from the original, much superior PCE game. Neither of them are bad games but they'd exchange them for other more popular choice if sacrifice must be made.
tepples wrote:
And I'm suspecting that the search for ACE bugs in the SA-1 based Super Mario RPG may soon heat up, as a different Super NES emulator was exploited through a defect in its SA-1 DMA implementation.
It would be amazing if someome managed to hack the SNES Classic using only button inputs via the controller
Gilbert wrote:
I didn't notice that the Japanese version lacks Super Akumajo Dracula earlier, but I can understand that. Goemon is probably more popular there so this is a logical choice. I think both Dracula games were considered black sheep in Japan, that the first game had too many things altered (like the control scheme for example) to make it recognisable as an Akumajo game and Dracula XX was terribly trimmed down from the original, much superior PCE game. Neither of them are bad games but they'd exchange them for other more popular choice if sacrifice must be made.
It's an unpopular opinion, but as a huge fan of the Castlevania series, I think CV4 is massively overrated. Most other classicvanias are better games, and I vastly prefer Dracula XX to it as well. The changes are exactly as you said, they made it feel less like a Castlevania game. Not that it makes it bad, I still like the game, but it has some minor annoyances most of the way throughout the game, lacking the amazing sleek design of the first and third games. The general consensus seems to be that it's the easiest of the series, but if you're going for a 1CC (as you should), I'd say it's much harder than CV3 if only due to random bs that will gladly kill you unexpectedly.
Dracula XX however is underrated. It definitely seems awfully trimmed down if you compare it to Dracula X on the PCE, but they are two completely different games with hardly anything in common apart from the graphics and story/themes. Its biggest issue is really that the controls aren't quite as snappy as the PCE game it's "based on", but it plays like a good classic Castlevania game, and is immensely enjoyable.
Looks like I won't get a SNES Classic either. I preordered immediately, like within the hour. Got a reply today that my order was cancelled because they won't be getting enough in Sweden and only the very first people who ordered will get one.
Here we go again... WTF Nintendo! WHY!?!?
It
sounds like the history won't repeat itself but who knows. I hope to get one this time.
Sumez wrote:
Gilbert wrote:
I didn't notice that the Japanese version lacks Super Akumajo Dracula earlier, but I can understand that. Goemon is probably more popular there so this is a logical choice. I think both Dracula games were considered black sheep in Japan, that the first game had too many things altered (like the control scheme for example) to make it recognisable as an Akumajo game and Dracula XX was terribly trimmed down from the original, much superior PCE game. Neither of them are bad games but they'd exchange them for other more popular choice if sacrifice must be made.
It's an unpopular opinion, but as a huge fan of the Castlevania series, I think CV4 is massively overrated. Most other classicvanias are better games, and I vastly prefer Dracula XX to it as well. The changes are exactly as you said, they made it feel less like a Castlevania game. Not that it makes it bad, I still like the game, but it has some minor annoyances most of the way throughout the game, lacking the amazing sleek design of the first and third games. The general consensus seems to be that it's the easiest of the series, but if you're going for a 1CC (as you should), I'd say it's much harder than CV3 if only due to random bs that will gladly kill you unexpectedly.
Dracula XX however is underrated. It definitely seems awfully trimmed down if you compare it to Dracula X on the PCE, but they are two completely different games with hardly anything in common apart from the graphics and story/themes. Its biggest issue is really that the controls aren't quite as snappy as the PCE game it's "based on", but it plays like a good classic Castlevania game, and is immensely enjoyable.
I know someone that prefers XX over the PC Engine version (which is crazy of course). I don't see how IV is a black cheap though. When I was a kid I was amazed by the music and atmosphere, and the dancing ghosts scared the heck out of me. The controls are also great, you can finally attack upwards! And brandishing the whip is a staple technique since this game (except in X for some reason) I still considers it one of the best in the series together with Akumajou Densetsu, PCE version of Dracula X and its Playstation/Saturn sequel, Bloodlines and Aria of Sorrow.
Super CV 4 is good, but good god did they overpower the whip. You can reach anything on the screen and it's so long you never need to touch your subweapons. I think that is a gross balance problem, and i firmly believe it had been better with a shorter whip. I think the graphics are also kind of smeary compared to the more classic and distinct look of Akumajou Dracula X: Chi no Rondo or Akumajou Dracula XX.
Pokun wrote:
I know someone that prefers XX over the PC Engine version (which is crazy of course).
I don't like much either - they are both major step back from SCV4. The PC Engine game is majorly overrated because it wasn't available outside of Japan, so it was perceived as a "must have gem" for this reason.
SCV4 however, is the best of the series and one of my favourite games of all time. Countrary to the first 3 NES games it doesn't have horrible controls, it's responsive. I agree it's a bit easy, but there's a hard mode for a reason. Also it's one of the only non-RPG Castlevania games I could beat legitimately without cheating. Both CV1 and CV3 I never beat Death legitimately so hard it is. Don't even get me started on X or XX, they're even worse, and I think going back to deprecated awful controls is unacceptable. Thanks god this was fixed in SOTN which again control well.
Using up for subweapons makes no sense, especially when it is also used for stairs. SCV4 made the right decision by moving it to trigger button. I'm however sad they went back to this decision.
Bregalad wrote:
they are both major step back from SCV4. The PC Engine game is majorly overrated because it wasn't available outside of Japan, so it was perceived as a "must have gem" for this reason.
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Looks like I won't get a SNES Classic either. I preordered immediately, like within the hour. Got a reply today that my order was cancelled because they won't be getting enough in Sweden
Bregalad wrote:
Using up for subweapons makes no sense, especially when it is also used for stairs. SCV4 made the right decision by moving it to trigger button. I'm however sad they went back to this decision.
Well, you had one button left in CV1: select. It's nearer the D-pad than the buttons, so it's hard to hit regularly with RH, and LH is constantly busy with moving.
(This is almost certainly why Batman: TVG used Start to cycle punch/subweapons and Select to pause, which is one of the other workable schemes…and it's a right pain given how much one needs switch weapons in the fastest routings.)
Of course, CV3 used Select for partner-swap, which meant you were really out of buttons.
This is what I'm interested in.
- The SNES controllers themselves. Because hopefully someone out there will make an adapter for them to connect to a real SNES. I would just like to have brand new SNES controllers as long as they are of the same quality of the original SNES controllers from long ago. Does anyone know if there was an adapter made to play the NES mini controllers on the original NES console?
- The hacked console. I really enjoy playing games on my TV rather than on an emulator on my computer. That being said, even though there is an emulator inside the SNES classic at least it will connect to the TV. Also it plays SA-1 games. I've been wanting to play SA-1 games on my TV for a long time and even the almighty powerful SD2SNES cannot do this (yet). So I want the SNES mini because I could load other SA-1 games on it (after it gets hacked) and then I can enjoy those games on my TV.
Also what emulator are they using for these NES classic and SNES classic consoles? It is their own personal in house emulator? Has anyone reversed engineered the emulator so that you can use it on your computer just like the other NES and SNES emulators that we already have?
Erockbrox wrote:
Does anyone know if there was an adapter made to play the NES mini controllers on the original NES console?
Google shows a bunch of the adapters the other way around.
Erockbrox wrote:
- The hacked console. I really enjoy playing games on my TV rather than on an emulator on my computer.
Then buy a second computer and plug that into your TV. If a full-size PC is too big, ugly, or noisy, try a Raspberry Pi computer.
Erockbrox wrote:
Also what emulator are they using for these NES classic and SNES classic consoles? It is their own personal in house emulator?
As far as anyone's aware, the emulators used in
Animal Crossing, Virtual Console, and the NES Classic aren't one of the major fan-made emulators. They're either internal or developed under contract. (Which of these doesn't especially matter, as Nintendo is known for outsourcing some of its game programming to studios under "white label" terms where the studio isn't credited visibly, such as Ikegami and Tose.)
Erockbrox wrote:
Has anyone reversed engineered the emulator so that you can use it on your computer just like the other NES and SNES emulators that we already have?
The NES Classic uses an ARM processor. Your home PC probably uses an x86-64 processor. And the accuracy of the official stuff is probably bs compared to bsnes, as it only has to be good enough to run a couple dozen games.
"Official" emulators tend to be much more like Nesticle or ZSNES (or early emulators in general) in the sense that their main goal is to get games running correctly, rather than precisely replicate the workings of the original hardware.
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The PC Engine game is majorly overrated because it wasn't available outside of Japan, so it was perceived as a "must have gem" for this reason.
I feel the same way about Seiken Densetsu 3 ~ when I first discovered emulation (well, got a PC that could run it) that game was the first one I played. After playing through it six times, I started to realize it's not as much fun as Secret of Mana (Seiken Densetsu 2). Yeah, it's more polished and whatnot, but it just added more complication to an already elegant design that didn't need more features. Make no mistake, it still deserves an international release. And it doesn't make sense for Square-Enix to keep the Mana Collection Japanese-only.
Seiken Densetsu 3 is great. I don't know if it's better than 2, but it's a lot better than anything else made in the series since. I think it's a very memorable game, and a great example of the lengths developers would go to put together a solid JRPG in the 16 bit generation.
And Dracula X on PC Engine? It's downright one of my favourite games of all time. People are entitled to their opinions, but calling it overrated is crazy. While I do think it did receive extra hype for being less easily available for a long time, is IS an exceptionally good game.
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And Dracula X on PC Engine? It's downright one of my favourite games of all time. People are entitled to their opinions, but calling it overrated is crazy. While I do think it did receive extra hype for being less easily available for a long time, is IS an exceptionally good game.
This.
The boss fights are sometimes very tough, but i also feel it's because of me when i lose. I'd say the same about beating death in CV3. You need to compromise between taking it cool and predict incoming projectiles and landing enough hits before time runs out. Mashing attacks will lead to defeat (unless you exploit an unfortunate mechanism).
The artistic style of PCE Dracula X is immaculate and the balance between player abilities vs environment and enemies feels just and sharp.
Hit boxes and platform placements are always done right. That's something you can't say about CV4 (which still is good in its own right).
To me Dracula X is probably the best of the series(haven't played most of the later games I couldn't say much). It is very polished with excellent presentation, and contains lots of fun references to the other games of the series to satisfy the fans, while not lacking in gameplay and real contents. It also, as mentioned, poses a reasonable challenge, but for those who find it too hard, just use Maria(especially for those who prefer more free control of the player like Super Akumajo Dracula). It greatly reduces the difficulty, while still keeping the game fun. Plus, Maria's animal companions are cute and for someone, could consider being mocked for playing with the easy difficulty (those cutscenes, and special mention to the hilarious ending, too). It's indeed quite well thought out, to suit the need of a wider range of audience.
I'd say its direct sequel, Symphony of the Night, is probably a bit overrated though. It is still a very fun game but is also a *very easy* grindfest, falling into the trap of being a "collection" game, in which you just repeatedly do the same stuff over and over, trying to get 200+% completion, getting all the items, or finding rare enemies, etc. After you complete (or nearly complete) the collection you may just ask yourself, "What was I really doing here?" It also reuses A LOT of stuff (specifically the enemy sprites and animations) from its predecessor, but yeah, I agree with many, that Alucard's walk cycle animation is VERY AWESOME, probably the best 2D walk cycle EVER.
Some time before the turn of the century, a university classmate of mine went to Japan and I asked him to grab a bunch of PCE CD games for me (I'm more or less a collector of PCE CD games, with 200+ titles on hand and during this trip of his he bought me around 80 titles), mostly heavily marked down in price. One day he phoned back and asked me whether I wanted to grab a mint copy of Dracula X, but at the original retail price. As all the other titles were at much lower prices I eventually declined the offer. I didn't know the game was really that good at the time. I still regret that decision to this day.
Ouch that was really too bad! While I don't think it's overrated it is probably overpriced, simply because the hype has led people to believe that it's more rare than it probably is.
I agree about Maria Renard, she really lifts the game and one of the most disappointing facts about XX is that she is not playable in that version. And for people that thinks it's too easy with her or wants a challenge you can play the whole game as Belmond.
Seiken Densetsu 1, 2 and 3 are all great games on their own with 3 being the most polished IMHO. They all have their own style though so they are not directly comparable. For example 3 doesn't use weapons as tools to progress and 1 have more switch puzzles and the like. 2 has the weapons and magic leveling thing going on (and annoying ring menus) etc.
I don't think Symphony is overrated either. I love how much it refers to the prequel and even some of the secrets are in the same place. It's maybe a grindfest but it's more of an RPG than any earlier Castlevania except Dracula II so those things are expected.
Also I really agree with Bergalad about having a separate button for sub-weapons are the way to go if possible. In the NES and PC Engine (and possibly GBA) games it really can't be helped due to the lack of buttons, but any console with more than two face buttons should use a separate button. Pressing up not only is in the way when climbing stairs but also makes it harder to move and use sub-weapons at the same time.
Give up jumping at the foot of stairs, and you free up A and B for two weapons.
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Hit boxes and platform placements are always done right. That's something you can't say about CV4 (which still is good in its own right).
Sorry but I'll say it. In SCV4, hit boxes and platform placements are always done right.
To me, Dracula X is basically feels like huge return to CV1, ignoring all the improvement that CV2, CV3 and SCV4 did inbetween. The only reason I can see why people are so fond of it is because they were (rightfully) frustrated not being able to play it for years.
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I feel the same way about Seiken Densetsu 3 ~ when I first discovered emulation (well, got a PC that could run it) that game was the first one I played. After playing through it six times, I started to realize it's not as much fun as Secret of Mana (Seiken Densetsu 2). Yeah, it's more polished and whatnot, but it just added more complication to an already elegant design that didn't need more features.
Well I guess you're right... I still like SD3 but it's not objectively "better" than SD2/SOM, both are great in their own way. The fact it was less accessible gives us the "feel" that SD3 is better. It still have less glitches, better graphics and twice as much playable characters (although you're still limited to 3 per playthrough), and they added day/night cycles which is nice. So I guess it's still a bit better, but not all that much.
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hit boxes and platform placements are always done right.
Case: In some frames, Slogra's damaging hit box is litteraly a fingerwidth outside its artwork measured on screen.. I believe that's one of the worst possible ways you could make a boss tough.
There's also a bunch of platforms placed so that you'll bump your head into them in a rather furiating fashion. That's not really a test of skill because there's no element of timing or tactics, it's just a slowdown to pass safely.
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To me, Dracula X is basically feels like huge return to CV1, ignoring all the improvement that CV2, CV3 and SCV4 did inbetween.
A huge return doesn't equal bad. There were improvements in some fields, and there were sacrifices/deteriorations in order to make those improvements.
For me, konami struck gold with cv 1 (as opposed to vampire hunter for msx, etc where they hadn't quite mastered how to make tight controls). Cv1 on the other hand, is a beautiful mix of capabilities and restrictions. They're iconic and present a unique platforming challenge. Cv 2 had its merits but dropped the action theme alltogether (+ the challenge) and most time is spent just walking around collecting stuff in an atmospheric setting. CV 3 came up with some features that did improve on CV 1 but still respects the core design ideas very minutely. Very few sacrifices were made.
With cv4 (again, for me), they plastered a lot of cool stuff on to show what the snes could do, and while it is a good game on its own, it's just not what i like about the "original" series. The subweapons have been demoted to a mostly cosmetic option; 99% percent of the time you never really need them and you end up with an overabundance of hearts if you're not using them just because it's fun to throw some weapons about. Most enemies don't stand a chance against the multidirectional whip, you can cheese out all you want which also lessens the need for learning tactical placement and rythm, to great things with cv1 and 3. You can move while jumping. It may seem like a no-nonsense upgrade, but... while convenient, it does at the same time take away some core experiences from CV 1, where the name of the game is timing jumps and being precise and measure with your eyes a split second before committing. In that game, it's even common to intentionally jump into an enemy, take dame, and be shoved in a direction to make a longer jump or skip a long part of a room altogether. That sort of combos feel
awesome. SCV4, then, lacks that call for preciseness present in cv1, 3, X and XX, for the sake of convenient control. It's a compromise; making an improvement (fluid, easy control), and at the same time a sacrifice (preciseness, rythm and tactical decisionmaking).
Rondo of Blood is a return to the tested and true core concept, but with sharpened stylism, and should be cherished by virtue of those merits.
Super Castlevania IV dares to do something different while staying thematically consistent, all while succeeding at deliviring a good game experience, and should be cherished for that.
Levels 4 and 6 are the only good levels in the game. Everything else is just one boring long hallway.
Bregalad wrote:
Well I guess you're right... I still like SD3 but it's not objectively "better" than SD2/SOM, both are great in their own way. The fact it was less accessible gives us the "feel" that SD3 is better. It still have less glitches, better graphics and twice as much playable characters (although you're still limited to 3 per playthrough), and they added day/night cycles which is nice. So I guess it's still a bit better, but not all that much.
These are my major problems with SD3:
-Class change system pads out what's basically a short game with grinding and farming (for the "???" seeds required for second class-change), though that said it's not absolutely required to class change and the game's probably winnable without the second one.
-A common complaint I've seen over the years, the basic combat system is reduced to jab x 4-supermove-repeat while in SD2/SoM there was some strategy involved in charging your melee attacks. Also, it was tolerable in SoM to have the spells interrupt the action but it's really kind of annoying here because they have more fancy graphics/animations.
-Unbalanced difficulty - You're pretty much screwed in a party without stat-ups/stat-downs (iirc Lise is the only one with stat-ups) because melee attacks do little damage on bosses. And of course I relied almost exclusively on melee attacks only casting support magic.
Now SoM could be accused of being a grindfest as well but if you know which elementals are most useful it's not that time-consuming to become sufficiently powerful. If you level everyone's weapon skill and elemental to the max out of OCD then yeah, it sucks. I do wish they found a way to refine the combat system instead of junking it for SD3.
SD3 is still a fun game but the style beats out the substance by quite a bit.
FrankenGraphics wrote:
CV 3 came up with some features that did improve on CV 1 but still respects the core design ideas very minutely. Very few sacrifices were made.
I do not think any sacrifice was made. CV3 is basically CV1 with better gameplay, more enemies, more levels, multiple paths and multiple playable characters. I do not think anything from CV1 was removed in CV3.
Stuff from CV3 was removed into SCV4 (which is also a return back to CV1 in those aspects) but it's compensated with better gameplay, better controls, longer game, better music.
Rondo of Blood is basically a return to between CV1 and CV3, there is multiple paths, but not multiple characters (simultaenously), and none of the major improvements of SCV4 are here, except the graphics.
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You can move while jumping. It may seem like a no-nonsense upgrade, but... while convenient, it does at the same time take away some core experiences from CV 1 [...] It's a compromise; making an improvement (fluid, easy control), and at the same time a sacrifice (preciseness, rythm and tactical decisionmaking).
It seems more like you're masochistic and hate games with good, fluid control. I do not see how not being able to move while jumping makes any advantages. The only "advantage" is that it makes the game much harder. Your claim it improves rythm or preciseness is complete bullshit. If you really hate to move while jumping
you don't have to in SCV4. But the ability to do so will save your life countless time.
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The subweapons [in SCV4] have been demoted to a mostly cosmetic option;
Wrong, I use subweapons in SCV4 regularly, even more than in earlier CV games because you can use them while moving thanks to the fact there is enough butons on the SNES controller so that they didn't have to use this extremely awkard UP+B combination to use them, making them usable during action.
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99% percent of the time you never really need them and you end up with an overabundance of hearts
In my experience, this is the case in any Castlevania game, not just SCV4. CV2 being the only exeption as hearths are used as currency.
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-A common complaint I've seen over the years, the basic combat system is reduced to jab x 4-supermove-repeat while in SD2/SoM there was some strategy involved in charging your melee attacks. Also, it was tolerable in SoM to have the spells interrupt the action but it's really kind of annoying here because they have more fancy graphics/animations.
Personally I never cared about charged attacks in SOM, the time it takes to load them is way to long compared to their extra strength. The spells not interupting action was great but source of many bugs, for example if you do a weak attack and a strong spell simultaneously the spell can effctively go wasted as the game only accounts for the weak attack.
I liked how SD3 plays more like a beat'em up, it really changes the rythm of the game (but don't get me wrong I still like how SOM does it with the % of loaded attack).
I'm not a fan of the way SD2 prevents button mashing and I think SD3 have more entertaining battles in general. They work as a better bridge between action- and turn-based RPGs. You can even hold the attack button in SD3 and it will auto-battle. The collision detection is also worse in SD2, and the damage feedback is often delayed long after you made an attack.
Regarding grinding I think both games are typical for RPGs, it will become a grindfest if you want every weapon orb and power but it's also possible to rush through the game. The SD3 ???-seeds are much faster to grind for and more useful than the SD2 weapon orbs are. The later are more of a perfectionist thing.
The worst thing about SD3 IMHO is the large amounts of choices in characters and classes for each playthrough. Lots of different classes and strategies is one thing that makes RPGs fun, but this can also really screw a newbie over as he is most likely to have no idea what characters and classes he picks on his first playthrough, and just grabs the ones he finds to be cool or cute. Also you have to complete the game at least three times to see all story scenarios, with most of the main story being the same all three times. This of course is great for replayability though.
I don't agree about buffs and debuffs to be necessary though. I play mainly melee and usually have a mage and/or priest/healer as support, and I never had problems whacking bosses without Lise. Maybe a bad combination of characters and classes will result in hard bosses however, which comes back to the above mentioned problem.
tepples wrote:
Give up jumping at the foot of stairs, and you free up A and B for two weapons.
That is certainly an option, but I think limiting the player's ability to jump is even worse than limiting sub-weapon use. Also I'm not sure how this would work with jumping off stairs.
FrankenGraphics is on point on Dracula X
I don't see how it "ignores" improvements made in the sequels to CV1. On the other hand it takes elements from both CV2 and 3 (the exploration, branching paths, multiple characters, etc.) and uses it in its own way, while retaining what made the first Castlevania game such a masterpiece. It feels like a true sequel to CV3, and while it definitely ignores every change made in CV4 I think I already explained why I think that is for the better.
While I absolutely love SotN, it's true that it completely lacks challenge and sort of ended the classic straight forward CV action game. Dracula X manages to NAIL that formula, while still pulling off a lot of the world building, exploration and absurdly detailed presentation that SotN would build on.
I would have like to see a true sequel to CV4 though, moving further in the direction it was trying to go.
It's not even overpriced either. When I first bought it, it was the first time I would ever buy an "expensive" game, and it would remain the most expensive game I'd bought for years. But nowadays, with the recent inflations in the retro game market, it hasn't really gone much up in price since I bought it, and would almost be considered cheap cmopared to most CIB SNES prices, or other PC Engine games.
That's the reason I think Dracula X has been overpriced. It isn't affected by the inflations because the supply still meets the demands consistently. I think that either the hype around the game led people to think it was more rare than it was, driving up the price, or the hype around it has simply died down a bit (especially now when there are Virtual Console versions and remakes of it). I guess it's a combination of the two.
I was certainly disappointed that XX (which I played years before I got my hands on a PC Engine) didn't have any of the fantastic whip techniques of Castlevania IV: Multidirectional whipping, swinging over gaps and my favourite, brandishing the whip. At the time, it felt like the series had taken a step back.
The Sub-weapon Crash moves are cool though, and in at least the PC Engine version both Belmond and Maria have tons of new moves, some that are hidden though.
Maybe brandishing the whip would have wasteful to do on the PC Engine due to the large sprites (PC Engine only allows 16x16 sprites at minimum)? I'm not sure how the brandishing physics is done though.
I would have hated Dracula X if it had that. Bloodlines has a nice compromise where you can still do some minor multidirectional stuff, but the game still manages to play like a Castlevania game.
I'm upset that they didn't include Hong Kong 97. What's a Super Nintendo collection without Hong Kong 97! Only one of the greatest games of all time! On a serious note though, why don't these classic console run of say a SNES on a chip, most of the famiclones run off of an NES on a chip. Ah, what am I doing talking about the hardware specs, it looks like a great console that I'd love to pick up when it comes out, I might even pre-order it.
I guess it's about cost and accuracy.
I think making an emulator on existing hardware architecture is probably easier and cheaper for Nintendo than remaking the hardware with HD support (although it would be very cool if they did). And why not use the existing Famiclone hardware like NES-on-a-chip? Those clones are not very good compared to good emulators when it comes to running the game with approximately correct sound and other behaviour.
DementedPurple wrote:
On a serious note though, why don't these classic console run of say a SNES on a chip, most of the famiclones run off of an NES on a chip.
Custom silicon is risky. And they can't just duplicate the original layout. They still need HDMI conversion, save state management, and something beefier CPU and GPU wise for displaying menus and scaling the display etc. In the end, it wouldn't make much sense to go that route.
DementedPurple wrote:
why don't these classic console run of say a SNES on a chip
"Why support someone who made a knock-off version of our product?"
"Why support emulators?"
And I guess we are at time where computers are more advanced then they used to, because with the Apple IIgs, I believe that to maintain backwards compatibility with older Apple II programs, they had an Apple II on a chip, because the main CPU was too slow to run the system bios but also read the code for the Apple II bios and run basic, so that system on a chip was deemed necessary. However, now that ARM SOCs are fast enough to run game code, and can output hdmi and are priced reasonably, the seem practical for the SNES classic. but because of this, we're probably going to have the same problem we did with the NES classic. Pirates are going to be dumping the ROMs and we're going to have scalpers. Since it uses an emulator, it will be super easy to dump the ROMs because they will already be emulator ready. It will be a large target for ROM dumpers because it has StarFox 2.
DementedPurple wrote:
And I guess we are at time where computers are more advanced then they used to, because with the Apple IIgs, I believe that to maintain backwards compatibility with older Apple II programs, they had an Apple II on a chip, because the main CPU was too slow to run the system bios but also read the code for the Apple II bios and run basic, so that system on a chip was deemed necessary.
I'm pretty sure this was done entirely for cost reasons, not for performance. The Mega II SOC didn't actually contain a second processor; any original Apple II software just used the main CPU in emulation mode.