Why my famiclone have space to two xtal?.

Hi i have a nevir mastergames nvr-vi(in spain) also know as milmar top loader in brasil. I opened It to repare the lm chip and i take a look to motherboard.

I view the motherboard is diferent to other boards i view surfing the web.

-He have two diferent conectors to power/vídeo board. One in the upper part and other in left part.(there is another famiclone with that?).

-He have a led not fitted, and unkown ic not fitted.
-He have a site to other xtal, and some elements not fitted.And a select switch not fitted.

What other configuration can support this motherboard from Factory? Is any other know famiclone using this board?.

Without a picture of the underside of the board, it's very hard to guess what the other things are doing here.

XTAL2 connects to a variable capacitor ... and we have no idea what either end of that is doing.

U7 has no obvious connections to anything at all.

No problem

XTAL1 and XTAL2 are two different kinds of oscillator topologies, designed for a "parallel cut" vs "series cut" crystal.

U7 ... hard to say. Clearly involved with both the SELEC header and the VR1 potentiometer.

Pins 14, 13, 12 are +5V; pins 10 and 1 are shorted together (and go to the SELEC header); pin 9 goes to one side of the potentiometer; pins 8, 4, and 2 are shorted together (and go to the other side of the potentiometer); 7 is ground; 6 goes to the other side of the SELEC header; and pins 5 and 3 are shorted. Vaguely looks like a 4000 and 7400 series part (given no interesting power supply and location of power and ground) but nothing obvious, given how it's connected.

Yeah, is rarely constructed even the pads not match the typical famiclone pads pinout. I folow the wires from pad and all are located in the 5 pin of the upper db9 line. But i not sure Who is Who in pinout.

For the database these are pictures of the console. In spain are comercialized three models the red with turbografx clone pads as the Brasil versión(made in Taiwán) and the black with others big pads mande in china),the other is very rare and is black with infrared pads.

All are socketed as i know and all uses discrete ics. Never is released with noac. The motherboard is from the red.

First time I see that the symmetry between CPU and its peripherals and PPU and its peripherals shown even on the PCB

Tracing the pictures, it seems to match the variant that randomly made it to the wiki, at least for DE9 pins 2-4.

The missing R17, R18, C27 are also interesting; I think those are an interface for the microphone that was the HVC-001 player 2 controller.

When I look closer at the exact connectivity of U8 and U9 ... it appears to be exactly identical to the canonical leaked Famicom schematic ( http://nesdev.com/Ntd_8bit.jpg )

... OH. Right, you're in Brazil. U7 is something for doing PAL-M transcoding, like this thing that Fisher has shared. I assume "SELEC" would toggle between PAL-M and NTSC encoding ... so I bet I was wrong; the two crystal places are for a 21.477MHz crystal for NTSC and a 21.454MHz crystal for PAL-M.

Interesting guys thanks, no, i am in Spain, the nevir was released here in early 90/91/92 i think. The Brasil version was released in 1994 i read un brazilian pages.

If anyone can post the output pins of the db9. Can be very hepful,i need pads for de red console.

I view also the made in taiwán here have two sub variants un serial number, one begining in 000xxx and another begin with 280xxxx

Here is pal-B the nevir.

I think should be sold in taiwan probably with another variant. Nevir(today continues). Always rebrand , one day they made a portatil dvd with screen. Well the screen was the original screen of psone!. They put a adhesive in the PlayStation logo!.

This is the pad:

Wire colour(from right to left looking pad connector ).

Conector para db9 (left to right).

Rojo:pin 5 Up (ground)?.
Naranja:pin 1 up (VCC)?
Blanco:pin 3 Up (latch)?
Azul:pin 4 up ( data)?
Negro: pin 2 Up (clock)?

O.k so reverse 2,4

Tracing the photo, DE9 pins 2-4 are the same as the convention mentioned on this random page on the wiki

Can be some part no fitted related to infrarred pads?. I found a picture of another model in the web, It appear became with the box with double system write in inglish and without gun drawed in. The box is from begining 92 end 91.

Take a look at front photo they have a some time of infrarred led or is the led of the board?.

http://www.todocoleccion.net/videojuego ... ~x53078161

Interesting.
I found that the name of this clone in Brazil is (was) Top System, not Top Loader.
I have no idea of how it's guts are...

Yeah, my error top system, But i not have found picture of the board. .

I try found and buy here another with the led/infrarred in the front to take pictures of PCB, But they are very rare, i think was the first version released here. Normally all are the box with mame in spanish and the gun draw in box

An old friend of mine once had one of this.
I'll try to find and ask him.
Unfortunatelly, it was about 15 or 20 years ago, and I'm really not sure if he still has the console.
I'm very curious about these old NES clones!!

You're referring to this picture? http://cloud10.todocoleccion.online/tc/ ... 030731.jpg

I haven't the foggiest idea what that could be. I don't see anything on the PCB you've shared that would make sense to connect with an LED or photodiode.

The PPU's Vblank NMI output appears goes to two places on the mystery IC (the upper pad on the SELEC header; pin 6 on the 14-pin footprint). I have absolutely no idea what a 50Hz signal would be useful for here...

Yeah exactly that picture. But do you have view the left down corner of the board in front? Is marked as "led" .

I know there is a another variant with ir:


https://goo.gl/images/PjvwzV


http://www.todocoleccion.net/videojuego ... ~x52398038

I suppose it's possible that the socket could hold a microcontroller or something? Or maybe a dedicated RC receiver...

But it just doesn't obviously connect to any of the player input pins; I don't really see how it could support wireless controllers.

Maybe the Wireless controller is internally the same as the Wi Vision:
http://img.olx.com.br/images/76/769710003097137.jpg

But there's way to know for sure, unless we found a good picture of it's internals or someone that owns one.
I think the Wi Vision should be a NoAC clone, while the Nevir is a discrete components one.
Not sure about this too, it's only a guess.

Mmm, a noac. Maybe, one interesting thing is the vir not have serial number. But in the other hand. View the picture, It appears have a Big motherboard un theory.

But we have very bad lucky. He take pictures from all angles execpt the controllers part!.

Interesting i found another famiclone in the web that appears share the box of nevir Styles.

Take a look: the stars are shared and the blue style.Even the photo in the side match the localization of side Photo in nevir. ¿Same manufacturer?.









And i found another with same box varíant, the interesting thing is in the side appears the exporter! .

I've seem a MicroGenius Famiclone back when I was a kid that had that same 15 pin connector, it was just like this one:

Unfortunatelly, I don't remember of it having that oriental symbols on one of the joysticks, both were the same.

How hard would be to build an infrared controller interface for the NES (and it's clones) using common of-the-shelf components?
I'm very interested in try this!
8Bitdo seems a good option, but unfortunatelly it's out of my reach.

Really pretty easy. The only real constraint is that the standard 38kHz receivers only support a bandwidth of about 1kHz, but that should still be enough to e.g. have a microcontroller continuously read the buttons, send then as 8n1 1200 baud asynchronous serial, and another microcontroller attached to the NES to decode that.

The problem is that the old IR-using controllers still sucked. They used a lot of power and were rather sensitive to being aimed correctly at the receiver.

You could probably get away with using something like the CC1100 series of RF-enabled microcontrollers. Zigbee or bluetooth would be better choices for this specific case.

Famiclone boards with two clock circuits are meant to drive a NTSC CPU along with a PAL PPU for "Dendy-ish" configurations which allow for use of NTSC bootlegs on PAL TVs.

After a while the companies making the chips just developed NTSC-ish CPU clones which can run from PAL clock for shaving some extra cost.

That has more to do with Taiwan than with Brazil, which uses 60Hz... The fact we use 60Hz PAL here, UMC and other companies developed PPU ICs capable of outputting PAL-M video directly (UA6548 or PM-02, for example).

One curiosity about nevir/ toploader is the 72 pin cartridge Is in reverse. Many sellers say, i sell this console as not works. But they have try the 72pin cartridge looking at joypads. Then when the console arrived works perfectly. Because the cartridge works looking to the tv not the joypads.

I buy one of these not working with the "72 pin fail" for 10e. Lol.

Interesting.
All the clones I know that have the (in)famous "Dual System" (both a 60 and a 72 pin connector) had the 72 pin slot facing the TV and the 60 pin facing the joysticks.
There were even some pirate games that had the label on the "back".
Maybe because it was easier to route the tracks on the board.

Exactly that. Look at all Nintendo official cart boards, the chips are facing the back of the console/TV. Including Famicom carts.

I know one exception the nasa/creation with two slots, But have slot loader in 72 pins.

Anyway these consoles are a crap. I have one of these and are the worst noac i never view. In the cool boy multicartridge fail to load all mmc3 games. For expample in might final fight after select player black screen.

The list of double slot consoles not are very high right?. I don't have view a lot in the web.

Double slot consoles with discrete chips are pretty good, actually.

The ones I know are:

Turbo Game

Originally come with two small rectangular joysticks, ressembling famicon ones and was known as "VG9000".
Later, came with these "Batrang" controllers and was called "VG9000T".
AFAIK the motherboard had some revisions too, basically they shifted from a single-sided board to a dual-sided one.
On the controllers of the non-T version, the start button was labeled "início" (Start, in portuguese), the select button was labeled "Seletor" (Selector, in portuguese), and in the console the reset button was labeled "início". There were blue and black buttons version of these controllers:


Dynavison 3

Originally shipped with two dildo-like controllers that had a headphone output on it with he volume setting on the console.
Later it was shipped with 2 controllers a little similar to MegaDrive ones, but with 6 colored buttons (as on picture).
The later revisions were made with a NOAC and dropped totally the headphone.

The other one, is the TopSystem I've already talked about.

Totally agree with that. I still have my old Dynavision 3. It don't works, but I plan to try to take it back to "life" as soon as I can.
I have a friend who has a "VG9000T" still working fine up to today!!

There are some type of incompatibility with this cartridge in the nevir.

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http://s.aliexpress.com/nMr2UryI
(from AliExpress Android)


It show a small horizontal lines ascross the screen. It loads the cartridge. But with these graphics errors all the time. It appear not happend in the modern chinese noac.

The coolboy 198 in 1 not working without diode mod. But 400 in 1 works without add the diode.

The 500 in 1 400 in 1(the other versión not cool boy). 100 best games(153 in 1) 150 in 1 and 30 in 1 . Appears work o.k

Picture or short video of the horizontal lines?

Is the bug similar to this one?
It was fixed with a diode + capacitor on M2, as explained here.

These type they moving to diferent sites in the screen in a pattern like if they have a on/off switch. Sometimes they have more or less. Appears in all sites cartridge menu included.

Not appear in the noac.

Those lines imply that the CHR ROM is just barely too slow. Perhaps they wired /CE and /OE backwards...

Really is a little strange because the game smoke gun sound horrorous. The music is corrupted in the nevir and even in the modern noac

If you want i can open the cartridge and make a picture of internals.

I have try these cart in four different nevir mastergames and all have the issues.

But today someone gift me another absolute yellowed. Very early console buyed in january 92. And he not have issues with the cartridge, nothing.

Interesting.
Maybe you can compare the boards and find the differences.

I can make a pictures to compare,but in the beginnig is the same motherboard layout what mistery.

I view a big difference, this early verssion use two yundai HY6116AP—10 as ram instead the umc. Also the secondary chips change brand.

Using "modern" bootlegs from China made out of 3.3v flash may have that kind of problem (lines and flashing dots) on original Nintendo hardware (or clones using discrete chips).

Very interesting that this clone has the positions to make a second separated clock oscillator for the PPU. Very early board.

Interesting...
I've been "reviving" some dead cartridge boards using PLCC chips found on older motherboards.
I thing I should take a look if the chips are 5v tolerant or else I may have problems in the future!!

Those will be 5V unless they're "29Lxxxx" or have an "L" somewhere on the code number. Usually PCs using parallel NOR flash did stick to 5V parts. Serial ones (FWHUB or SPI) will likely be using 3.3v instead.

Of course FWHUB and SPI will be kind of useless for the NES, as they're serial memories... Right?

Sure!
I was thinking in using it somehow on the NES, but unfortunatelly I couldn't think about a nice and easy solution.
They're becoming more common on the thrashed parts.
But I think new motherboards are using something like I2C protocol, aren't they?

With this, my "raise from your graves" party are coming to an end soon...
Not that I have much more boards to "ressurect", but I would like to try some SNES games too.

SPI, not I2c, which also happen to be a industry standard on serial bus communication. SPI is that four wire protocol which is used for example in programming of AVR MCUs

Variants of SPI are used for NES, Super NES, and PlayStation controllers and for Game Link on Game Boy and Game Boy Color. The difference is that MOSI (master out slave in) and chip select are intertwined on the Nintendo systems.

Voltage in this case or is the umc ram speed?. Its not only litte lines,it depend of the console, but the lines can be massive in all screen. And in super mario bros i view a slowdown and a ghost images of the screen elements tubes etc etc that go with you until are redrawed with new ghost images.

I can't found anything about the umc ram specification anyway. But in the console with hyundai chips (100ns) works perfect.

I mean, both.

Basically, the little 8x1 glitches come from the PPU fetch pattern. Every 8x1 chunk of pixels in the background comes from the following sequence by the PPU:
* Fetch which tile should be drawn from PPU RAM
* Fetch what color that tile should be drawn from PPU RAM
* Fetch one bitplane of the tile from CHR
* Fetch the other bitplane of the tile from CHR

If any one of those steps go wrong, you'll get one of those 8x1 glitches.

There's a bunch of ways that adding an unprotected 3V ROM could screw things up.

* Because of the PPU's multiplexed data bus, a 3V ROM could drag the data bus too low to be reliably and correctly latched by the 74'373. In turn, that'd cause a fetch from the wrong address and thus the wrong tile.

* Because the CHR ROM is only driving its output up to ≈3.3V, the output won't necessarily have risen high enough fast enough to be received by the PPU correctly. And then, bad value → glitch.

Intestingly, the console that has no glitch has an AHCT latch, while the other has an LS.
I think this may comprove the low voltage theory, aren't the AHCT more tolerant to these kind of voltage differences??

That happens with the powerpak too. People replace the PPU latch IC to attain better powerpak compatibility. It boils down to the timing, different reasons for the same problem.