Hi, I'm doing a write-up on the Top Gun video game for my retrogaming website. While comparing the NES and Famicom versions, I noticed a few differences, ranging from the absence of in-game music to missing graphics, even though the two carts seem to be the same size (129 KB). After reading about the changes between the Contra games on Wikipedia, I've been wondering if Top Gun might also be using the VRC2 chip or some other Konami custom chip that could explain the regional changes. Any idea?
They might be the same size since to fill an entire rom chip you usually have to padd the data a bit. I kinda doubt they have different mappers but I havnt seen the famicom version so I cant be sure.
When you say "comparing carts", with regards to 128KB, are you actually meaning to say "comparing ROMs?"
If so -- there have been tons of mask ROMs dumped for games which were dumped incorrectly (e.g. too large). I think the most famous fuck-up was Dragon Warrior 4, where the ROM was 1MByte in size, but in reality was only 512KB.
Otherwise, there's a bunch of games where the US releases are smaller than the Japanese releases, and have less content; Contra's such an example. However, just because there's less content doesn't mean the actual mask ROM has to be smaller.
People often forget that time constraints are a big deal in the working industry. This is speculative, but for example, Konami may have wanted to do with Top Gun what they did with Contra (US release is smaller, which additionally saved money due to use of a smaller mask ROM set), but ran out of time before the game had to be released in the states, so ended up using the same size mask ROMs in the US as they did in Japan -- yet the actual content may be smaller (e.g. wasted space).
Konami might have made a very large purchase (bulk) of mask ROMs as well. Without getting into CHR vs. PRG segregation, think of it this way: Konami buys a million 128KB mask ROMs for the US releases of games, regardless of actual game size. So, 64KB games end up getting written to 128KB ROMs and released as such. This can happen regardless of whatever else is going on -- they may have "pulled a Contra" with Top Gun (code/graphics-wise) to decrease the image, but then found out later that Konami had excess 128KB ROMs available in the states, so went with using those anyway.
We'll never "really" know, unless you yourself are actually dumping the carts themselves. :-)
If so -- there have been tons of mask ROMs dumped for games which were dumped incorrectly (e.g. too large). I think the most famous fuck-up was Dragon Warrior 4, where the ROM was 1MByte in size, but in reality was only 512KB.
Otherwise, there's a bunch of games where the US releases are smaller than the Japanese releases, and have less content; Contra's such an example. However, just because there's less content doesn't mean the actual mask ROM has to be smaller.
People often forget that time constraints are a big deal in the working industry. This is speculative, but for example, Konami may have wanted to do with Top Gun what they did with Contra (US release is smaller, which additionally saved money due to use of a smaller mask ROM set), but ran out of time before the game had to be released in the states, so ended up using the same size mask ROMs in the US as they did in Japan -- yet the actual content may be smaller (e.g. wasted space).
Konami might have made a very large purchase (bulk) of mask ROMs as well. Without getting into CHR vs. PRG segregation, think of it this way: Konami buys a million 128KB mask ROMs for the US releases of games, regardless of actual game size. So, 64KB games end up getting written to 128KB ROMs and released as such. This can happen regardless of whatever else is going on -- they may have "pulled a Contra" with Top Gun (code/graphics-wise) to decrease the image, but then found out later that Konami had excess 128KB ROMs available in the states, so went with using those anyway.
We'll never "really" know, unless you yourself are actually dumping the carts themselves. :-)
Top Gun is a UNROM game. Both US and Japanese versions are 128KB. The US version strangely lacks music in game where as the Japanese version has music. It's anyone's guess why that could be. But it's not related to any Konami VRC mapper at all.
koitsu wrote:
When you say "comparing carts", with regards to 128KB, are you actually meaning to say "comparing ROMs?"
If so -- there have been tons of mask ROMs dumped for games which were dumped incorrectly (e.g. too large). I think the most famous fuck-up was Dragon Warrior 4, where the ROM was 1MByte in size, but in reality was only 512KB.
Otherwise, there's a bunch of games where the US releases are smaller than the Japanese releases, and have less content; Contra's such an example. However, just because there's less content doesn't mean the actual mask ROM has to be smaller.
People often forget that time constraints are a big deal in the working industry. This is speculative, but for example, Konami may have wanted to do with Top Gun what they did with Contra (US release is smaller, which additionally saved money due to use of a smaller mask ROM set), but ran out of time before the game had to be released in the states, so ended up using the same size mask ROMs in the US as they did in Japan -- yet the actual content may be smaller (e.g. wasted space).
Konami might have made a very large purchase (bulk) of mask ROMs as well. Without getting into CHR vs. PRG segregation, think of it this way: Konami buys a million 128KB mask ROMs for the US releases of games, regardless of actual game size. So, 64KB games end up getting written to 128KB ROMs and released as such. This can happen regardless of whatever else is going on -- they may have "pulled a Contra" with Top Gun (code/graphics-wise) to decrease the image, but then found out later that Konami had excess 128KB ROMs available in the states, so went with using those anyway.
We'll never "really" know, unless you yourself are actually dumping the carts themselves.
If so -- there have been tons of mask ROMs dumped for games which were dumped incorrectly (e.g. too large). I think the most famous fuck-up was Dragon Warrior 4, where the ROM was 1MByte in size, but in reality was only 512KB.
Otherwise, there's a bunch of games where the US releases are smaller than the Japanese releases, and have less content; Contra's such an example. However, just because there's less content doesn't mean the actual mask ROM has to be smaller.
People often forget that time constraints are a big deal in the working industry. This is speculative, but for example, Konami may have wanted to do with Top Gun what they did with Contra (US release is smaller, which additionally saved money due to use of a smaller mask ROM set), but ran out of time before the game had to be released in the states, so ended up using the same size mask ROMs in the US as they did in Japan -- yet the actual content may be smaller (e.g. wasted space).
Konami might have made a very large purchase (bulk) of mask ROMs as well. Without getting into CHR vs. PRG segregation, think of it this way: Konami buys a million 128KB mask ROMs for the US releases of games, regardless of actual game size. So, 64KB games end up getting written to 128KB ROMs and released as such. This can happen regardless of whatever else is going on -- they may have "pulled a Contra" with Top Gun (code/graphics-wise) to decrease the image, but then found out later that Konami had excess 128KB ROMs available in the states, so went with using those anyway.
We'll never "really" know, unless you yourself are actually dumping the carts themselves.
contra is a bad example since it actually HAD a different mapper though.
Sorry it took me so long to reply. I've published the review and Famicom comparison. Well, first off I'm not a techie so bear with me if I make mistakes (I should have known better with the 128KB tho), I just came to this forum from Wikipedia.
@koitsu Yes, I meant I just compared the size of the ROMs.
The music isn't the only difference between the two versions, besides, removing it could be rather easily justified, the FX sounds doing a good job on their own. What puzzles me if that there are three graphical elements missing. The first one is an intermediary screen between each mission where destroyed targets are pictured as stars, the two others are graphics on the aircraft carrier: a control tower and the tip of the runway. Why would Konami want its game to look less attractive by removing those ? This is what I can't figure. I can only imagine this was done because it could not be helped, so the fault of technical constraints. Anyway thanks for the answers !
@koitsu Yes, I meant I just compared the size of the ROMs.
The music isn't the only difference between the two versions, besides, removing it could be rather easily justified, the FX sounds doing a good job on their own. What puzzles me if that there are three graphical elements missing. The first one is an intermediary screen between each mission where destroyed targets are pictured as stars, the two others are graphics on the aircraft carrier: a control tower and the tip of the runway. Why would Konami want its game to look less attractive by removing those ? This is what I can't figure. I can only imagine this was done because it could not be helped, so the fault of technical constraints. Anyway thanks for the answers !
Did the Japanese version come out after the US version?
IGN says that the US version came out in November 1987, while Gamefaqs says that the Japanese version came out in December 1987. Of course, any sources of this kind of information are extremely unreliable.
Perhaps this might be the simplest explanation. The J version had more development time into it than the US version.
Edit:
Also, the US version, when looked at in a tile editor, has more empty space inside than the Japanese version. Both use compressed graphics. There's about 24K of blank space in the US version, while the Japanese version has about 16k of empty space.
IGN says that the US version came out in November 1987, while Gamefaqs says that the Japanese version came out in December 1987. Of course, any sources of this kind of information are extremely unreliable.
Perhaps this might be the simplest explanation. The J version had more development time into it than the US version.
Edit:
Also, the US version, when looked at in a tile editor, has more empty space inside than the Japanese version. Both use compressed graphics. There's about 24K of blank space in the US version, while the Japanese version has about 16k of empty space.
You're right, the US version did come out in November and the Japanese one on December 11. That could be the explanation now that you mention it. But that's such a short time, would it really make a difference, isn't it just the normal delay of an almost simultaneous continental release ?
The European version is identical to the US one although it was released the year afterward, I guess this isn't much surprise.
The European version is identical to the US one although it was released the year afterward, I guess this isn't much surprise.
sanjuro wrote:
You're right, the US version did come out in November and the Japanese one on December 11. That could be the explanation now that you mention it. But that's such a short time, would it really make a difference, isn't it just the normal delay of an almost simultaneous continental release ?
The European version is identical to the US one although it was released the year afterward, I guess this isn't much surprise.
The European version is identical to the US one although it was released the year afterward, I guess this isn't much surprise.
I think at this point, you'd have to get in contact with the folks who worked on the game and ask them why the Japanese release has slightly improved graphics and other differences.
The rest of us can only speculate. :-)