This will never happen to any successful extent, so I'd just forget about it and try to start from scratch.  Most of the coders these days want to work on their own projects, so coding a generic tool that would allow others to make games might work, but every game that would come out would look like an exact clone of the game the tool was designed to make.  There would be no room for any creativity.

Most people's problem is they start too big.  They decide they want to make "an rpg" or "a platformer" for their first game.  That's just ridiculous to consider.  Start small.  Make pong.  Then make a single screen puzzle game.  Then learn how to do simple scrolling.  Make a new project for every new idea you want to implement.

It is possible.  You just have to decide to take it seriously and read the lessons and ask questions.

Just to spur friendly argument, and get further off Khan's topic, a "program" designed for less original games isn't really going to help you learn to program.  Besides, if you really wanted to do this, my own tutorials offer this sort of primer.  And Roth has released his base code...one could start by modifying those. 

Anyway, I'm trying to think of stuff that was missing when I was starting.  I think that most of it has been covered thus far, either by bunny or myself.  X&Y integrated Loops, look up tables, pointers, all that fancy stuff took a while to figure out. 

There are really nice ways of getting into programming, including assembly language programming. See my earlier thread: http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/...; (I can't get this link to work, but the one I posted earlier in this same thread works...weird) and watch my video. If I never found that book, I may not be doing this today.

I don't think it'd do anybody any good to tell them this is easy. But the truth is, it is really fun. And if you're okay with it taking a long time, none of it will SEEM hard, because every step of the way will be a blast. That's really how you have to look at it.

Programming is fine. But never having made a game before is something else.

Most people don't know how games are supposed to be designed or organized. Things like game modes, level data, collision detection, and code structure in general. While the NN tutorials are great for getting a small game off the ground, anything much bigger would require much different structure, namely nmi.

Anything that has to be written a specific way for it to work is going to be frustrating when you don't figure it out right away.  You won't have to spend 80+ hours to stand a chance.  If you and I were in the same room, I could explain things to you in probably two hours for you to figure out how to do something simple, but of course creating an entire game is going to take 80+ hours if you want it to be any good.  It just takes that long to write the code.

It's a labor of love.  If you want to figure it out, you will figure it out.  It's all about dedicating yourself.  If you want to learn to program, it won't seem like work.  You'll be waking your girlfriend up saying LOOK AT THIS SHIT I DID!

Keep the discussion going guys.  This is great stuff.

I sorta just stumbled into the brewery today and got into this thread expressing interest because of what Khans thread encouraged. But should have known any ideas or inputs a newb suggests wouldnt be taken seriousely, or even considered. duh!

I think this thread is turning into a clear answer why more people dont try and do this. 

Lack of positive help or listening maybe

And on another note. Who said anything about wanting to learn to program? I said I wanted to make a game. If there was a easier way to make a game more people would do it. Regarless of how  "unoriginal" it is. I have seen some hacks of NES games that look completely different then what it originally was. So much that it looks like a homebrewed game, and more impressive then some complete original homebrews i have seen on the NET.

IMO just because you use a piece/inspiration, of something else, doesnt mean you cant put your creative touch on it and make it different and your own.

I remember reading an article where the guitar riff for "cat scratch fever" came from Nugent ripping off the guitar riff of "i cant get no satisfaction" by the stones. Put distortion with it, lyrics, change it up a bit and no one would have ever known that.... if Nugent didnt come out and say that. Sounds completely different!

Anyways im not encouraging "ripping off" others ideas, but im just speaking from a newbs point of view, and was just saying if it was easier .........more people would participate is all. Thats why i brought up how it would be cool if there was a program for dummies is all. 

Of course i would love to go bare bones and do it hardcore like they did back in the day, but im not getting paid to do it either, nor have a whole team of employees around me either, all set on a mission to create a BA game. Alot of the great games back in the day had a whole staff making them.

Thanks! finally a positive uplifting post

Out of curiosity, did you find my posts to be discouraging? All I want to do is encourage new folks in this scene. Maybe I'm too much of a battle hardened vet to be one of the guys to do it though. I just know for myself, after years of trying to make a game, the thing that made it possible was actually accepting how hard it is and not trying to pretend it wasn't---is that the wrong approach? I think it is a classic problem of being experienced and not quite remembering what it felt like to be a newb at something.

*edit* that's a bit off topic. PM me.

God I'd love to get together with a few people and make a Masters Of the Universe Game for NES. Thats been on my mind for like 2 years now. Or at least help fund it in some way. I'm just so busy with work and my band it'd be hard to find time.

I dont want to get off topic either, and never meant to start with my "NES program to make games an easier way" debate

I didnt find your posts to be discouragin. As i said i have NO experience in this, but defintely have the drive to want to learn. Ive collected for a very long time, and it just seems like the next step since i live and breathe this stuff so much. Has always been a dream of mine, and i have some local collector buddies too who i know would be interested in contributing. I just remember looking into it a couple years ago and was shot down by many vets. Pretty much they gave me the impression of "your not smart enough, go hack some games" mentaility. Especially some at NESdev, In fact i recently saw a trend at Nesdev where many have been saying "oh God your another Nintendoagee coming here for help" 

Its sad really. Dev snobs lol.

but anyways yes i would be interested in learning and wanna talk to some of my local friends together, and maybe assmble a game dev team

Some questions
Is it hard for someone to learn how to design sprites etc.? Even if thats all they know how to do, would it be a help in a project ?
How about music etc.? 

I never go to nesdev purely for that reason. Everyone there seems very elitist, and I don't think they'd take me seriously, so I steer clear.

Sprite artists are very much in demand. There are games I would like to make, but I am not talented enough to draw sprites that look good. Having more people with this talent would be great. Better graphics never hurt no one.

Having a specialty would be great. Same goes for music.

As I mentioned to you on FB Kevin, all I have to offer is no knowledge and a list of pet peeves about nes games that I play. I think that right there is a good start. At least I know what NOT to do in a game lol. I really would like to see a game kind of like Sonic the Hedgehog on the NES. My best example would be Kid Kool, without all the one hit death shit. I like the speed of the game, but it sucks balls to have essentially nothing as a weapon, and not being able to use your speed effectively. I hate games that would essentially brand that as being a "challenging" aspect of gameplay. At least give a life bar, some form of less than rudimentary attack, and when you die, allow the player to respawn where they died. Is that too much to ask?! lol

Glad im not the only one. ive been a longtime nesdev member, but was always afraid of posting questions there. 
I have patience and dedication for games, beating battletoads and adventure island taught me that LOL

So i think i would be OK with grasping the "time thing" And knowing the more you put into it the better, and i agree with the poster that said NES gaming is part of their life, and if it takes 2, 5, 10, years whatever its still something you created and did. Which to me, is just awesome to think about. Hey i made this game. If it was 30 years ago everyone in the world may have played it lol. 

Anyways i have a very open mind atm, hope i can run with the idea and inspiration this thread may create.

Please don't be scared to ask questions here. The more the better.

Mark, I didn't mean to insult you by calling you a newb. I was a newbie once too, and believe me, I asked more than my share of questions. I meant that most people don't want to put in the time and effort.

Honestly, though, creating the engine you're talking about would prove as difficult, if not more so, than making an actual game. It is a good idea though. Maybe someday.

Amen Khan. I strongly, strongly believe anyone who wishes to make a game, can. Like Khan said, it is all about dedication. The folks at nesdev are actually really nice as programming forums go. They may ignore some stuff, but if you have a sincere question and are clearly trying to learn something, they're usually very polite, and good with newbies. Just don't expect warm and fuzzy.

Speaking for myself, I sometimes like to find a friendly mentor type person to learn from. It's a little less scary than posting publicly on a forum if you're lucky enough to find somebody like that. That's just me though! It hearkens back to a pre-Google world, something a lot of these 20 somethings and younger probably don't even remember, heh.

I'm actually learning it, it's my first time in the programming.

MRN - its all good man, if i start to learn programming the idea i originally had would probably seem like a waste too. It seems like all you guys are willing to lend a hand and help others get their feet on the ground. Gives me hope, and is great to hear. ! 

What would you guys suggest the first move would be? Purchase the book that gradual games reccomended?

Ok first off the ultimate Newb question:
In a nutshell is writing a NES game basically learning specific codes, putting them in order, then the NES reads the code, and bam you have something on the screen?

Sorry im sure there is a TON more, but is that sorta how it works?

If you try out Assembly Language: Step by Step, be aware it is not NES specific nor does it show you how to make a game---it is just an intro to programming with assembly language as the first language. It's a great book and a lot of fun to read. Some folks may prefer to start with something higher level with a game specific context. Google for "Invent your own games with python," it is a free e-book. That'd be a fine way to start, too. Everyone will have a different path, you just have to find what works for you and makes you want to keep going. While I recommended that book I actually got my own start in QBasic, back in '96 or so. I think that book represents what may be the shortest path from total beginner to assembly language programmer---which is why I recommend it here.

Time to start a NA IRC channel so peeps can ask the most basic programming questions without worry? Probably would need specific hours/days that experienced people can be around.

Like Derek said, everyone works differently.  I didn't bother reading any books, and just used the Nerdy Nights tutorials and asked a lot of questions.

That would be awesome!!!! 

we all gotta start somewhere, i still have your hand numbered  #2 NWC Repro cart u first made bunnyboy from the NESdev days!

Yeah, an IRC channel would be awesome. Very encouraging to get help on the fly!

How about a live 1 hour class every weekend. My girlfriend is a musician and she had me back her up to take Pro Tools classes at Guitar Center. She said it helped a lot seeing it done and being able to ask questions in real time was very helpful.

I'd be interested for sure. I'd be there every weekend ready to go.

Having anything "scheduled" probably isn't a possibility. We want to help out, but once it starts feeling like a job, it will end quickly.