They use awful PCB layouts (bad contact points), nothing like the original nintendo controllers.  Diagonals never work right as a result, at the very least.  Usually you'll be dealing with dropped connections, increased lag, and other manufacturing problems.  The stories are a dime a dozen, because their products are shit.

Best option is a good ole original SNES controller, argueably the best controller ever made.

 

Or just hack the snes mini, ebay it for 200$, and buy one.  this thing is just as portable and does about 50x more at 10x the quality.

post was referring to me as pegboy, not that i know who that is.  i use hyperbole to great effect, it's a highly effective way to communicate but it does ruffle quite a few feathers.  much like our current president....

i absolutely meant it makes previous (and future) purchases obsolete.  in a previous post i outlined all the things I will be selling that will be replaced by this single device (about 1200 in hardware plus another 1k if this thing ends up doing the neo geo).

this will have quite an effect on people selling their real games as well once the general public realizes they can just stick an sd card in the thing.  even if i owned the originals why not just put the roms on the card for easy loading/switching?

it's like saying nobody sold all their originals when they bought an everdrive.  seriously think a lot of people didn't do that?  i sure did...

the only reason to champion anything other than this for 8-bit or 16-bit going forward is it's lack of analog outputs.  hardware, software & upscaler options are all strictly better with the super nt.

Do you have a source for this? I read a few news releases and I didn't see any information about the Super NT implementing the SNES Enhancement Chips:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...

Simply loading a SNES ROM on the Super NT is not sufficient if the game had one of the enhancement chips on the cartridge- thus the complexity of the SD2SNES. For the systems that the Anologue NT Mini implemented, just loading the ROM instead of reading the cartridge was sufficient, but the SNES poses a different challenge due to the aforementioned enhancement chips. I would be surprised to hear he was able to reverse engineer all those chips, especially the SuperFX variants and the SA-1 chip. 

I don't have to know anything about it, price trumps everything for me. I get it, it's like fancy caviar from a five star restaurant vs. store-bought sushi from Publix.

However, unless the dang box can shoot out a laser that cures blindness or aids or something, I personally can't justify paying that price for it. Some features are cool but... mmmmeeeehhhh?

it's on their twitter, it's 100% compatible with the carts.  but ya the question of whether itll run those specific roms off the card is still up in the air.  my moneys on kevtris though, he's a perfectionist and i doubt he'll settle for anything less than 100% compatibility.  but we'll see on that.  at the very worst i still own the 5 games that matter (starfox, smw2, kirby 1 & 2, smario rpg).

@bouncekdelomos for 190$?  maybe you're looking at the nt mini which i agree is expensive.

I'd like to take a stab at explaining the difference between an FPGA and emulation at a lower level than most of the attempts out there.

Logic chips typically have fixed functions, like RAM, ROM, CPU (in the I/O sense), timer, shift register, etc. Think of an FPGA as a blank slate for designing a custom logic chip. It comes with a lot of logic built-in along with memory and a CPU core. The engineer can tell the FPGA what logical functions to use or ignore and assign the functionality to various pins on the package.

Now, the original hardware is mostly a collection of logic chips, each with a specific function. An FPGA is like a blank slate logic chip waiting for an engineer to give it a similar/identical function.

Emulation is purely software that interprets other software and approximates the execution of it as best it can for whatever platform it runs natively on. In contrast, an FPGA is a logic chip (hardware) with code-configurable logic (Verilog). It can literally assign the same exact functions to certain pins as the pins on other chips in the original hardware it attempts to replicate. It can intentionally limit its own capabilities to replicate simpler logic, timing, I/O, etc.

Diving further, let's take an original ROM that we want to replicate in a flashcart. That ROM has pins for power, ground, Chip Enable, Chip Select, address pins, and data pins. An FPGA already has memory inside of it which also requires address and data lines to be accessed: RAM. We're halfway there!

An FPGA can take the data originally dumped from a ROM, put it in RAM, and make it available as read-only through its own address and data lines. The designated pins are mapped to the same exact data in the same exact way as the original ROM, though the EXTRA hardware is now flexible enough to obtain that data from an SD card and replace it with different data whenever the user wants (who wants a flash cart that can only play one game, right?). The engineer can pick and choose what pins of the FPGA package get assigned to each function of the original ROM. The FPGA can even slow itself down or replicate other timing quirks of the original ROM. External hardware has always been agnostic of this. It is, for all intents and purposes, functioning as a ROM.

But ROM chips often come in pairs (or more) that share the same address and data lines and are toggled on and off by a memory mapper connected to their discrete CS/CE pins. Well, the FPGA can also designate a set of pins on its own chip package that connect to this mapper's CS/CE control pins and continue returning the correct data over the same data lines while replicating ALL ROMs. It can even take it a step further by replicating the memory mapper chip itself that was toggling the enabled ROMs based on the system clock signal. Now it only needs to designate pins to interface with the hardware on the other side of the mapper... no discrete mapper chip required!

The FPGA can use some of the same memory that it uses for the ROM data to replicate save RAM, system memory, and much more. It can use other pins to replicate I/O logic to interface with keyboards and controllers and sound hardware. The more advanced FPGAs will let you designate pins and assign logic to replicate the functions of a particular CPU, and more. How far can you take this? The answer for many older systems is "all the way," (hence, AVS, Analogue NT Mini, etc).

Everdrive, Powerpak, or SD2SNES are not emulation. The AVS is not emulation. The Analogue NT/NT Mini are not emulation. The Analogue Super NT is not emulation. Even the Supaboy and crappy Retro Duo are not emulation. The RetroN5 is emulation. RetroPi is emulation. Virtual Console is emulation.
  Even Nintendo botched diagonals with the NES Classic Edition controllers. Actually, it's because the nub on the bottom of the D-pad is too small. Switching D-pads with an original controller and widening the hole in the rubber completely fixes this. Not sure if I should blame Nintendo or blame whoever made it in Germany but it seems they also made the Switch Pro controller that gets a lot of praise.
  That's only possible up to a point. For example, the NES PPU has no accessible RGB or digital video. The only way the Hi-Def NES and NES RGB can work is by replicating the functionality of the PPU. They can disable themselves and revert to the old PPU when you aren't using RGB or HDMI but when being used as intended the original PPU is pretty much just there to get timings and check results (my understanding at least).
  You have a point, but consider that the "jailbreak" is a "jailbreak" in name-only. The hardware creator designed it for this purpose. It has an SD card for this purpose. The manufacturer went along with it for this purpose (whether they admit it or not). Also, that has no bearing on whether or not its suitable for its primary function (as an SNES console). All that is just a bonus. None of that convinced me to buy an NT Mini, but a Hi-Def SNES that isn't emulation totally does.
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I understand that, but for those who want to use the original chips, they accept the limitations in favor of "real hardware," whatever that may mean to them.

Yes. You're basically describing me. I'm a huge proponent of the Hi-Def NES, UltraHDMI, GCVideo, etc. I install them for myself and others and encourage people to use the original hardware wherever possible. I get asked about similar hardware solutions for SNES *all the time.* The problem here is that there is no similar solution for SNES. To add insult to injury, the OSSC doesn't even work properly with SNES. This is as close as it gets and that's why this is so badly needed.

Right, but again, they accept those limitations on the SNES and use original hardware. Why else are CRTs still sought after? This device, while nice, is still not going to cause everyone to abandon everything else in favor of it.

How many other devices have come along that people have claimed that would render everything before it obsolete? Tusecsy says he gave up his carts when he got a flashdrive. Good for him. Some did, a lot didn't.

Mr. Wunderful's main point is that thinking this will sell to every idiot who decides to play Super Metroid again is ludicrous, because the casuals will still play on their PC, Wii, Raspberry Pi, SNES Classic, or whatever, and are not shelling out $190 (or more with shipping.) I saw the same brushback from casuals in regards to the AVS. "$185 JUST TO PLAY MY OLD CARTS WHEN I CAN PLAY IT ON (insert something else) FOR (insert cheaper price)!!!!1!11" This thing won't fly off the shelves. It'll sell decent, to be sure, but this is a niche product, through and through.

 

Exactly, but there is still reason for demand to be high. I accept the limitations and I play on the original hardware... but I also want one of these. They aren't mutually exclusive. Streamers, videophiles, casuals with no decent way to use analog video, etc may find this appealing (especially with the added value of jailbreaking). Considering the state of availability for similar alternatives on other platforms, demand could be higher than anticipated and could outstrip supply (just like OSSC, UltraHDMI, Hi-Def NES, etc).
 

Except for the complexity of pairing their Bluetooth controllers, I haven't had any complaints. They feel solid. The company supports their products that are many years old with firmware updates. For example, adding Nintendo Switch support to controllers that were many years old when the Switch launched.

I have:

2x SNES Retro Receivers
2x NES Retro Receivers
2x NES Classic Edition Retro Receivers
NES30 Bluetooth controller
FC30 Bluetooth controller
FC30 "Player II" Bluetooth controller
NES30 Pro Bluetooth controller (acquired yesterday)

All designed and built with care and quality you wouldn't expect from a Chinese company. The firmware updates and new features tell me they really want the product to be as good as it can be.

I would easily agree with you if you were talking about Retrobit, Hyperkin, Tomee, etc.

Hooray someone mentioned me! lol. But yeah I always prefer original hardware over FPGA based solutions. I completely understand the way that FPGA's work and know that it is not emulation in the sense that people think of emulation. Now that being said, I was genuinely excited by this console and yes I, the disliker of FPGA consoles, have preordered a transparent one (I am a sucker for transparent electronics).

Now why would I do such a thing? Well I own multiple SNES consoles, so I can always play on the original hardware if I want. However it is extremely unlikely that we will ever see a Hi-Def SNES kit.(Please let me be wrong on this.) If we did ever see anything like that it would almost have to be a kit that only worked on one specific revision of the console. The reasoning behind this is solely because there are just too many differences between revisions. Trying to make a one size fits all application is basically out of the question and making multiple kits is too costly.

Comparing this to the SNES Classic, I would literally only buy a SNES Classic to say I own one, just like my still boxed NES Classic. I genuinely hope this console lives up to the expectations that many of us have for it. I for one really look forward to comparing it to my SNES Mini with my Framemeister. For my PVM play, I still have my Mini or my Fat launch day SNES to play. If this turns out to not be what I hoped for, then I have a cool looking device for my shelf and I go right back to my Mini. At least it's not $500 like the Nt Mini. I can't justify that price when I have multiple Hi-Def NES and NESRGB consoles already.

If we eventually do see a Hi-Def SNES kit come out by some sort of miracle or selling of souls, I will happily switch back to pure hardware goodness and know that I had fun in the meantime.

Demand being high is fine. This replacing everything out there is ridiculous.
 

doesn't change the fact that the pcb's are wrong to begin with.  fix your pcb's copying the exact same nintendo design and i'm a buyer.

@czroe that's funny you mention the switch pro controller.  i find it has some of the problems you describe, especially the d-pad.  now it's all making sense.  the pro controller is overrated and i feel it's only getting the hype it does cuz the joy cons are complete ass for anyone with normal size hands.

would kill for a wii u pro controller with the analog sticks in the right place, that would be the be all end all imo.
 

Exactly! By the time you've made a kit with various adapter boards that works with every version of the SNES including the 1chip, you've already made one that functions as an Analogue Super NT (the sad truth). Even then, installing an interposer for various QFP chips isn't remotely the same as socketing thru-hole chips or soldering an FFC to a QFP. The risk to someone's console is much higher so it would be very difficult to commercialize such a thing. A lot more DIY hobbyists and even many professional modders would be excluded because it requires a hot-air rework station and various PCB adapters to support all the SNES revisions.

It's more doable if limited to a particular revision, but that would further limit marketability since it will never work with most SNES consoles and the mod still carries high risk (even with proper equipment). If you don't have your own hot air rework station to DIY then you will likely pay an arm and a leg for this kind of service. Doubt anyone would develop such a thing but with Kevtris or jwdonal's legwork all the hard work to make it possible is done.

Kevtris demonstrably doesn't think he can market it that way like he did with Hi-Def NES, which speaks volumes about the marketability of an SNES retrofit kit.

Good news: Wii U Pro Controller works with the 8bitdo RetroReceivers.  


You can even use them with a other modern consoles by plugging the RetroReceiver into the modern console through USB instead of the target retro console's controller port.

You might have had a dud but you may still want to give 8bitdo another chance!  

I didn't read this whole thread because to be honest, it's too long and I just don't have that kind of time right now, but I don't think this will be an end all be all. Now if Kevtris releases more cores for it, awesome! I will totally play with them. Ultimately though if it just let's me play snes games and they look and perform well, I will be happy.

Yeah. For a single SNES console? Pretty expensive for a HDMI clone... for me anyway. I don't make easy stacks just to blow it all on a HDMI clone. Now if there's a FPGA console with multiple slots for around that price, I'd be down for that.

If it only replaced the snes you'd have a point.


 

receiver is laggy/dropped connect garbage as well.  i have plenty of experience with both their snes and nes adapters, its just cheaply made trash.  company has no quality control for anything beyond the outside shell of the actual controller.

wii u pro controller is unusable with both sticks up high (so frustrating they almost had the perfect wireless controller).

 

There are slot adapters for the NT Mini ("multiple slots"). No reason to think Kevtris won't do the same for this.

 

I tried to buy it but it was $50 for shipping. Is there an option for a shipping price that's not completely retarded?

Were you trying their Switch controller support? That was added surprisingly fast to old controllers back when the Switch first launched. It seems they didn't have time to optimize and they've since updated to lower latency across the range.

I've had intermittent connections with my official Nintendo Wavebirds: try holding a shell in Mario Kart 64 on Wii VC while someone in the room runs BitTorrent over 2.4GHz Wifi. The game will fire the shell, even when all players are on different channels. I made a conscious effort to limit simultaneous use of 2.4GHz devices within my home but it's probably a bigger problem than ever these days. My connections have been rock-solid but I don't doubt you've had your issues. Was someone streaming Netflix to a first-gen Chromecast or listening to music on their AirPods or Bluetooth speaker or something?  

True, got a point there. Don't know how much more that it'd drive the cost to though.

 

Well... yeah. A multiple console would replace a SNES and more. Like Genesis, NES, Famicom, PC Engine, what ever you have. More bang for the buck. 

Like a Retro Freak or Retron 5, but with FPGA and all the wooshy stuff people get hard over when relating to HDMI simulation clones. At the cost of one HDMI Super NT. Crazy to dream, yeah... but I'd like something like that for 200 bones.

That all would probably not fit anyone else's lifestyle and convenience, but it fits mine.