But would it be unlicensed???

Dafuq happened in here

My English is poor, I wish to be wrong, however this to me sounds like:

"""  All these "recent" productions are just scams made by people without any sense of ethics and  morality, with the only purpose to fool poor collectors.  """

which sound a bit weird to me, since just few days ago you were seeking assistance to join the party.

 http://nintendoage.com/forum/mess...

No offense meant: are you invidious about other people skills and creativity, or just an hater?

After four days arguing about the "objective" misuse of the term "unlicensed", monopolizing the "brewery" section of this forum, you admit now that you are looking at the whole issue with discriminatory feelings towards the subject being discussed. :confused:

Sorry man, but I can't help laughing.

Edit: emoticons not working corretly.

BOOM!

I don't think the recent productions are scams; however, I do think that the things I mentioned above are all valid points.  IMO, when people start whining that their games are indie and aren't homebrew games, then they need to do something to show that their games are now in the major leagues.  Auctioning off a few artificially rare LE games and calling it a day doesnt show that though, at least in my humble opinion.

In addition, I am not sure how I was monopolizing the brewery section of this forum.  If you notice, someone else had started this thread, and furthermore, I had tried to end this argument several pages back, but arch_8ngel kept wanting me to make a biased statement about something that he knew I would be unable to view objectively  The reason for that, idk, maybe just for the lulz.

If you examine more carefully what I wrote, maybe you can learn and see that it is not the words of a hater, rather the words of someone that is just sick and tired of the hypocricy and bullshit that has entered into the Nintendo society.  I am interested in having a game develioped at some point, and LEs is not the way that I would go about doing it, nor is falsified rarity, etc.  I am not interested in the money or the glory, just interested in having it done so I can send it to my brother for him to enjoy, and so that others can also play and enjoy, while also learning.

Sometimes it is the methods that people use when doing things, which make or break something.  And that is how I feel here.  

Regarding the argument itself, the argument was pretty much over before it ever began, in my eyes. Just for posterity's sake, I will quote why in my next post. 

I saw the arguement as being over after arch said the above quote.  A personal stance based on a highly-subjective item such as "quality".  No matter how much objective information is thrown out there, when the other party admits that their stance is based on a subjective property, to argue is useless as their points are not objective.

Re-read my sentence: I meant the subject discussed was monopolizing the section of the forum, not you.
In my intention it was not an accuse to you, if it sounded like, it is because the sentence was wrongly set up English wise, because of my poor English language skills.

On the rest, I think you have really poor knowledge of the effort and risks which are behind these recent productions, here we say: "who knows, does; who doesn't know, criticizes".

I think you'd have to go back in time and start producing games in 1989 for a release today to be unlicensed.

Okay, I can accept that, fair enough.  With that said though, there are risks with everything in life.  As with this whole discussion itself, I think it is also fair to say that just because historically developers sell of LEs and often make runs extremely limited to make up for the initial costs, doesn't mean that this is the only (or the best) method to achieve that end goal.    But let's just leave it at that.

  As for the rest of this thread, you can see that while my opinion on the games fitting / not fitting into the unlicensed category hasn't changed, I've also tried to objectively think about this new situation with these new games.  It is unfortunate though, that some others only look subjectively during our debate.  With that said, enough time has been wasted here, and I have a movie to attend tomorrow, as well as a fish market to visit, so I think I'm done here.

- sarcasm alert!

Looking forwards for a "are LEs ethic?" thread.

- /sarcasm alert

Seriously now, I think that, no matter what, many honest and interesting opinions were shared in this thread, by all parties involved (I did not see all that hypocrisy, mostly the will to expose each his own logic), and for someone ignorant as myself about specific collectors terminologies, it was worth reading.

I can sound weird, but I didn't dislike the reading and the debate. Sure, nothing too important, but still, people arguing with at least some minimal "sectoral" competence, and about subjects that they care about, it is not so bad (this at least compared to the average for internet standards), even when such subjects being discussed ("unlicensed" or "not unlicensed") are kind of 99.9999999999999% meaningless to most.

In few words: I hope no bad feelings!

Cheers!

Edit: emoticons issues, again.

I wasn't going to post anything here. But on the constant mention of "indie" games--

Let it be known that the day *I* am considered "indie", is the day that I run screaming, back to my comfy desk job, programming hentai games!

I think you are reaching the level of absurdity if you are suggesting that a single opinion invalidates all other objective points that have been made.

That's just ridiculous, especially when you admit your own apparently deep seated bias against an entire class of games that you don't even actually own or play.

I *think* that any given "category label" should refers to the published product, not to the work of the game designer and/or the game development team; hence, I *think*, unless you (or your team) self-publish your work, that label relates more to your publisher/producer rather than to yourself. I, for instance, consider myself just a common freelancer, I'm perfectly fine with such role and "title", and I really don't care about the products "category labels".

That said, I wish ( <- it is my wish == biased ) the category of people rewarding me for my job being respected.

As I mentioned before, I would gladly give those games a go, but I was raked over the coals for wanting a repro so that the games would fit in with my region, so that I could play on Famicom.

The difference is the area in which hold a bias, I admit this bias and don't try to argue in that sector; on the contrary, you do try to argue in the sector in which you hold your bias, hence objectivity and logic flying out the window in the argument.

There are many fully playable demos released which you can try on emulator. Moreover, these could help maybe:

  http://www.stoneagegamer.com/nes-...

  http://www.ebay.com/bhp/famicom-t...

(disclaimer: I don't know if/how they work, I never used a Famicom, and I never used such adapters).

Also, if there is some recent NES product that you like and it is not available for Famicom, and you think there is potential market for it, you could ask the owner of the copyright on such game to sell you the right to distribute some Famicom carts of it, or seek to find another form of agreement, hence investing some time and/or risking some money on that project yourself: if that is something you care about for idealistic reasons, even going even economically (or even ending with a little economic loss) and spend lots of time should satisfy you anyways. To blame a "small producer"* of NES games located in the US for not providing a Famicom version of such games released, seems not extremely intelectually fair to me. Decide on other people time and other people money with words, is always easy and extremely likely brings nothing; invest your own time yourself and risk your own money with facts, will way more likely produce that "difference" or "change" that you are seeking for. Just my two cents.

* (pick another "label" or "title" if you prefer).

That response completely ignores the fact that numerous objective criteria have been brought into the discussion.

You continuing to lean on one opinion that I stated in the face of everything else that has been discussed is just bizarre.

Just to respond to you, I did inquire from some people about having Famicom carts made, but the responses were not overly promising.  And for a means of cutting costs, I even recommended some specific cartridge cases, and offered to help obtain said cases in big enough quantities for a resonable price.  Likewise, I was also more than willing to distribute over in the Asia regions, with my contacts, ultimately no dice though.

But that issue is just a smaller part of a bigger issue.  Without getting into too much detail (there was a large debate about this a few weeks back), the general consenus on NA has been that it is okay to "repro" games that didn't make it to North America (i.e. mostly Famicom games), and that included stuff such as independent / unlicensed / homebrew / whatever  games being developed and manufactured in China to this day, for the Famicom.  When asked wh it was okay to steal these works and reproduce them, and it wasn't okay to steal and reproduce Battle Kid (since it never had a Famicom release / i.e. wasn't available in that region), suddenly a shit storm arose, and everyone tried saying that the two situations were entirely different, yet in reality, it was the exact same situation.  That is a double standard, and I don't feel it right that only the western homebrewers receive this special treatment / protection with their products, yet it is okay for western gamers to take and steal and repro anything else from the eastern markets, just for their own personal enjoyment.

Thanks to the links for the adapters.  I actually already own a NES to Famicom adapter, but I refuse to play those games on NES format with an adapter.  It may be my loss, but I can accept that, especially when there are thousands of other games I can play, and my free time is limited as is.  Those that find no harm in reproing Japanese / Chinese (i.e. Famicom-exclusive) games, homebrew or unlicensed or games still being developed today, one of the reasons is because people who collect NES don't want to have the game on Famicom format, it doesn't really fit in with their collection.  I feel the same way, in reverse, and thus that is why I don't play those games. 

Thank you tracker for the nice word, and you know as well that I enjoy discussing such topic with you, whatever if we are on the same page, partially on the same page or in opposition

Now, i just read your last post replying to user, and I must admit that I'm personally quite surprised at a certain stubborness you maintain regarding which games are ported to NES and Famicom and etc.. I mean, is this antagonism really justified to the point that you think it is a better idea to restrict yourself over games not yet ported to Famicom, just by principle?

Okay, those NESentrist guys you're pointing at do exist somehow, but this isn't an unwritten rule followed by everyone over here either. There are also the people that own both NES and Famicom and recognized both consoles as equally worthy, not counting the many that will vouch for Famicom, be it for pertinent reasons or some sort of dandyism.

Maybe I'm asking cause I would never restrict my own access to the eastern Famicom scene because of ideological reasons of the like. I mean, since I discovered emulation in my teen years, I always considered that all NES and Famicom games were, in the end, part of the same group, even to the point that when I first joined NA and became familiar with the NES collecting scene, I was stunned by how owning the US set was pretty much everybody was talking about, while I always thought that all the NES/Famicom (and euro exclusives) games were equally significant.

In the defense of Nathan though, while he clearly expressed an argument based on subjective appreciation, he's still hinting at a sign that can be informative about the current state of these newly produced NES games.

Just like we can see a progression and a complexification in the video game language used by NES/Famicom games over the span of their heydays, we could potentially see that homebrew games began to be more and more elaborated, purely in a technical point of view, over those last 15 years. This can only be viewed as a general observation, and it would never take in account correctly  the specificity of all those games produced, but if we can see a line of progression, it somehow exists.

This said, and I already stated it before, these categories we are talking about can't be defined by said 'quality' of those games, but, I would be ready to recognize that the shift from one movement to another could be observed by some vairous factors, which one 'could be' a variability in the general complexity of games developped (even if it isn't mandatory in the first place, and that 'complexification' doesn't always equal 'better quality' ).

Wow, that was quite a read! Unfortunately, a reasonable answer was provided on the first page of the thread, and the rest was just arguing about semantics, and perhaps just argument for argument's sake.

Maybe some sub-thread (forum?) could be created for arch_8ngel and tracker465 to resolve their obvious differences?

That thread has some good info, but is also tainted by Polarbear's trolling.

Every time a post begins this way, I read it in Rob Reiner's voice