If you want to skip everything, just look at the last 2 image links!
Now that I have a range of TVs from the same manufacturer I did some measurements of output lag (using a similar idea to
http://nintendoage.com/forum/mess... ) and comparisons of image quality. The numbers should be for relative comparison instead of absolute measurements. Anything that is +/-2ms should be considered equal. I need to film a high speed clock using the high speed camera for calibration. Overall it is what I expected with a few surprises!
The images are not edited to look better/worse, or even staged at all. Most TVs were on the floor and I didn't bother setting the input options except game modes. Colors will change with viewing angle, TV settings, background lighting, image compression, and quantity of hamsters. The "nestopia" pictures show the output from my laptop at the native panel resolution to get a baseline.
In the end the absolute worst AVS delay is better than the best NES delay. Analog loses badly in every case. If you don't notice lag with your NES then you certainly won't with the AVS. The image quality is awesome all around, and anything wrong is only visible when you are ridiculously close. On the 5000 series the 720p AVS and 1080p Nestopia both have the same sampling artifacts so I see no significant difference in running non native.
Samsung 4000 series 30" 720p
This is my oldest TV, from Jan 2013. I have been using it as a computer monitor since then. It is listed in displaylag.com as 26ms. The horrid composite handling is typical of all the TVs, where pixels become jaggy blurs. There were also obvious jailbars. It is a native 760 pixel panel so it doesn't match 720p or the common 1366x768. The upscaling is pretty good with some gradients between white and other colors. Once you get more than about 3' away they are too small to be seen.
Ideal CRT - 13ms
Composite NES - 52ms (2.4 frames behind CRT) -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
HDMI
AVS -
31ms (1.1 frames behind CRT) -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
Nestopia -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
Samsung 5000 series 40" 1080p
I got this one for expos so it was at PRGE last year. This winter it was used as my RacerMate display. It is a native 1080 pixel panel with 33ms at displaylag.com. Again composite NES looks terrible and is far slower than the AVS, but it is measurably faster than the 4000 series. The upscaling has more gradients, like its trying to do 3d shading. When you are within a few feet you can see some dark areas in the corner of diagonal white pixels. This effect is also covered below....
Ideal CRT - 13ms
Composite NES - 44ms (1.9 frames behind CRT) -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
HDMI
AVS -
33ms (1.3 frames behind CRT) -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
Nestopia -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
Samsung 6000 series 40" 4k 2160p
The newest one! My first 4k TV was initially the worst. On the same day, it happend to cost me as much my daughters knocked out tooth in a face plant on scooter. There is extreme blurring on the composite input, but there is also what looks like image compression artifacts inside areas of color. In the SMB zoom pict you can see the blue lines/dots inside the white 1985 letters. The analog inputs have little adapter cables, and if the component one is even plugged in then the composite input is ignored. That took me a long time to figure out! The HDMI input has the same dark areas at diagonals that the 5000 series has. It is also inserting color again, this time look at the top row of pixels for 1985 for the white horizontal lines. A few feet away and those are too small to be visible, but very annoying once you know they are there. Both the HDMI and composite input were so amazingly slow that I did the measurements twice. Fortunately I missed a setting, see the next section!
Ideal CRT - 13ms
Composite NES - 129ms (7.0 frames behind CRT) -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
HDMI AVS - 127ms (6.9 frames behind CRT) -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
Nestopia -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
Samsung 6000 series 40" 4k 2160p - PC MODE
The secret to success was setting the HDMI port to PC. Suddenly the image quality is amazing and the speed is back. As expected, 4k looks the best. Similar to my old Aquos the PC/game mode cuts off a massive amount of time. Composite game mode cuts off ~4.5 frames of lag, but it looks even worse! There are significant vertical bars, ringing around every color change, and the horizontal smearing is much longer.
Ideal CRT - 13ms
Composite NES - 55ms (2.5 frames behind CRT) -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict
HDMI
AVS -
41ms (1.7 frames behind CRT) -
full screen pict -
SMB zoom pict