congrats!

Have to agree, here. I can see some obvious wear to the corners of the box. It's certainly not "mint".

Not that this isn't an amazing haul. Because it is.

Amazing haul. If only the retro video game stores around me had that kind of stuff!

Jesus christ, I only glanced at the pictures because they took forever to load. I'd still say it is an 8, and obviously you can't rate CIBs and Sealeds on the same numerical scale. I would much rather have a MINTY unsealed game in my collection then the sealed equivalent with a torn seal and damages. Yet the sealed is usually worth more despite it being in worse condition.

Good haul - when I was a CIB guy I was tough on condition and that would have been right in there with mine. A pretty sweet copy!

Get a box protector NOW!!!! Lol

no one said anything about sealed.

I am talking about games like sawtooth homebum's that are genuinely minty looking cib's - look basically perfect and like they were just opened.    Now *those* are 9s... and realistically that makes most even nice games a 5.     Maybe that's not the way you're used to thinking of it, and its certainly meant as no disrespect to anyone - but its the way I see it and certainly the way it is in other hobbies anyways.    A really gorgeous copy is just *SO* much nicer that as nice as this copy is calling that an 8 and a sawtooth a 9 just doesn't wash because they are worlds apart.

yup, its a great find!!

And don't you come from comic book collecting?  Don't they do .1 grading like 9.6, 9.8, 9.9, etc?

We haven't gotten to that level yet (thank god) so rough rules of thumb are all we have to go by.  It is also much easier to subjectively grade an item in hand then one pictured on the net.

Considering the relative condition of most DK math's you've definitely found a diamond in the rough.

Bronty, so you think a perfect CIB is a 9. Sawtooths perfectly flawless CIBs were 9s. Not 9.9s or even dare I say, 10s. Sure, it's not sealed so it can't be a 10 as some would say. And I would agree, that most boxes are only a 5, considering 5 is the median of 10 making it average. So most average boxes are only 5. But this is well above average. Most collectors require 8.5 or better. This would just barely sneak in there, only because it's a DK jr. Math. Therefore, it's an 8. Possibly a 7.5 if you're very critical and looked at more of the pictures than I did and found more flaws than I did.

This is not a 5 and if you think it is, your grading is very skewed from 99% of other NES collectors grading. At least it's in the safer side, just be careful when buying any CIBs if you ever do

I recently traded this Turtles TF away and told the trader it's a 5/10. If a rental cut up is 0.5/10, ripped is a 2/10, this is a 5/10, the DK Jr. Math is an 8, and sawtooths boxes were 10s.

I agree.

This is exactly why I never use a X/10 grading scale for condition.

Sawtooth's boxes were probably Near-Mint+ to Mint for the most part, but I didn't hold any in my hands so I couldn't tell.

I've once unsealed a few very sharp looking Color Dreams games. These boxes were all Near-Mint+ to Mint or better.

I've sent a few case fresh sealed games to VGA which all received 90 and 90+ grades. These had boxes that were in Near-Mint+ to Mint condition as well, and perhaps some were Mint.

This DK Jr. Math box is at the very best in Excellent condition. Let's say Very Good to Excellent, and nowhere near of being Near-Mint. I would still love to own it though.

The TMNT copy tuxedocivic is showing is at the very best in Good condition, so let's say Fair to Good condition.

Most NES boxes you see in the wild are either in Poor, Fair or Good condition. Very Good is also very probable though. If a box has some severe damage on it, it will be either considered as Poor or Fair. This being said, most boxes that are still acceptable given their age will be either in Good or Very Good condition considering they have a good amount of minor and moderate flaws.

To be rated as Excellent, a box has to be in outstanding condition, and at this point every detail needs to be taken in consideration. Excellent means collection worthy. When you have an Excellent copy of a certain game, you're no longer actively looking for an upgrade copy. However, you would have no problem switching it for a Near-Mint or better copy if you get the chance.

Anything over Excellent are copies that are "virtually" perfect save a few details. Things are getting quite anal at this point, but this is where it counts because it's usually within this frame that one buyer's money and one seller's reliance are in play.

Okay, now let's translate these definitions into numbers :

1 = Trashed
2 = Poor
3 = Fair
4 = Good
5 = Very Good
6 = Excellent
7 = Near-Mint
8 = Near-Mint+
9 = Mint
10 = Gem Mint

Mmmmm, looks like Bronty isn't in the wrong, isn't it? Okay okay, I admit Near-Mint should be at least 8 so here's my corrected version :

1 = Trashed
2 = Poor
3 = Fair
4 = Good
5 = Very Good
6 = Excellent
7 = Excellent+
8 = Near-Mint
8.5 = Near-Mint+
9 = Mint
9.5 = Gem Mint
10 = Pristine

I'm going to go out on a limb here and grade it myself...

Box: 8.0 -- One small tear on left spine, two small creases on left hand corners(front and back), light scuffing, worn corners.
Cart: 8.0 -- Normal light label scuffs, small rut in label under the brim on the right side of the 'Education Series' hat.
Manual: 8.0 -- Scuffs on the back cover, very small creases on cover corners.

I agree with everything for the most part, other than this. Regardless of what a game is, it still is graded the same. Unless you were saying in the case of DK math that you might be hard pressed to find better so you would have to lower your standards and get a lower grade.

I totally agree this isn't a 9 it would have to be a bit lower, but it is a damn nice copy compared to what you usually see.

 I hadn't kept up with it for a while,  but didn't two recent ones in significantly worse shape sell around the $250+ mark?

Oh, and the rating scale is more like this guillavoie

1= trashed
2 = trashed
3= trashed
4= trashed
5= poor
6= fair
7= fair
8= good
9= near mint
10= mint

^ What I meant was you would lower your standards for Dk math and accept a 7.5 or 8, just because it's so hard to find. Otherwise if this was say, Contra, no way you would accept this into a collection (unless it's my collection we're talking about).

@ quillavoie - so if 5/10 is average, then average is very good??? I don't think you can't just translate descriptions into numbers like that. 5/10 is average. Nothing more. Very good is "hmm I think this is very good and belongs in my collection, I would call this an 8 and put it on the shelf". And that Turtles TF in the picture is only a 3? That might be a bit harsh for that one.

Again, this is just how I think most people rate stuff. I'd be ok with a grading scale that called most average boxes a 2 or 3, but that isn't how 99% of the nes community rates boxes...

EDIT - I just asked a Star Wars collector sitting next to me to rate it outta 10. He has no idea what this thread is discussing. He just called it a 7.5 or 8. He's a freakin' MOC star wars collector and is extremely picky.

Hahaha, now that's picky sir! I agree that anything between 1-4 is rather trashed. Just to be clear, I've added notes beside every grade :

1 = Trashed (What is this exactly?)
2 = Poor (What game is this actually?)
3 = Fair (Rather handy when there's no toilet paper around)
4 = Good (Much more sturdy, perfect to start a wood fire!)
5 = Very Good (Still good as note paper once flipped over)
6 = Excellent (Nice enough for shipping stuff inside)
7 = Excellent+ (What most eBay sellers describe as Mint or Brand New)
8 = Near-Mint (Average collector's Mint copy)
8.5 = Near-Mint+ (Frisbee's filler copy)
9 = Mint (Frisbee's collection copy)
9.5 = Gem Mint (Frisbee's heaven)
10 = Pristine (Frisbee's expectations)

I've just said earlier that "I never use a X/10 grading scale for condition".

In fact, most terms used in a grading scale are euphemisms. A "Very Good" box isn't very good looking actually. Sure, people can't start calling everything a 2 or a 3, and this is why that DK Jr. Math will receive an 8 by most people.

However, when you think of it, most Nintendo game boxes are badly worn. Obviously, these weren't considered as collectibles by their original owners. This being said, when you compare a VGA 90 and up copy with the average collection worthy copy, there's definitely a world of difference between those twos.

I believe my grading scale is designed like a collector's scale should be. Anything below 7 is rather worn, and the fun starts after that point. You will agree with me that the distinction between 8 and 8.5 or 8.5 and 9 is way more important than the distinction between 4 and 5.

its absolutely a 5.    and yes my grading is skewed from my others... which is my whole point.   Y'all grade like its a 15 point scale, not a 10 pt scale     because as guillavoie's post points out there are lots of gradations from simply a very good box to a flawless box.

normally I never say anything because I know it just ends up in a discussion that goes nowhere.   But when we're calling that dk math box a 9 its time to take a step back.

Nice Find

Ok fair enough. Difference of opinion.

I do feel that using the 10 point scale serves a purpose. Example: Price check on 5/10 CIB DK Jr. Math, answer - $100. But if you had used a scale most collectors used, answer $200+.

Also, I see what you mean about the gradation of mintyness, and agree that this can't be called a 9 or "mintyfresh". But I think you're missing out on the bottom of the scale. The difference between an 8 and a 8.5 can be a lot.

I just think we see so many 7s and 8s on NA that we start to believe that's average (5/10) because we're the above average type people on these boards. What you get in the wild or ebay as average is much less than this DK Jr. Math. Take this for example http://cgi.ebay.ca/TURTLES-TOURNA...

What is that a 2? Look at the tear on the front. You don't get that here. That's for ebay.

A basic agreeable 10 point scale can make life easier if we're all on the same page. 9/10 CIB Sqoon $250. Wow, that sounds like something I want, can I see pictures. Ok. Looks at pics, hmm, looks like a 9.25 I'll buy it. Or hmm, looks more like an 8.5, will you take $200.

Anyways, just wanted to add to the discussion that goes nowhere I just think it can be usefull.

Oh boy where to begin.  Ah the old Mint, Gem Mint, Near Mint, Excellent discussion.  Reminds me of baseball cards and comic books. 

Baseball cards have one purpose, being a collectible.  There is no real "use" for them, other than displaying or sticking in your bicycle wheel spokes Comic books could be argued as having a "use" of being read, but I think those days are long behind us and the older issues are now strictly collectibles.

It makes sense to grade sealed games in this fashion because they serve one purpose as well... being a collectible.  You can't play them (yes I know that you theoretically can by opening them, but very few people do so... and if they do, they usually open a duplicate), so you can give them the strictest grading requirements imaginable.  It has to be this way; a flaw a minuscule as one tiny corner poke needs to be quantified in some fashion.  Makes sense.

And then there's CIB games.  I am a CIB collector, so I'm going to make some generalizations about most CIB collectors since we usually think alike.  However, if any of these are wrong, please correct me.

Most CIB collectors view games as games first and collectibles second.  What I mean by this is that most CIB collectors are willing to play any game in their collection, I know I am.  I had no problems playing my 9.5 Secret of Mana and using the map.  Maybe my map isn't "Gem Mint" unfolded anymore, but it is still "Mint" and the 30-40 hours of enjoyment I got by beating the game far outweighs the enjoyment of letting it gather dust on a shelf. 

Some people may want to store boxes separately from carts so they don't damage the box when playing them, but I think this is a minority of CIB collectors.  Removing a game to play it is no different then opening the game for pictures when you go to sell it.  If you can do one, you can do the other.  For games that I may play frequently and am truly concerned about condition, guess what I do?  Buy a sealed copy for collecting and a CIB to play.

So since CIB collectors are viewing their games as games and not collectibles, why would we use a scale that applies to collectibles only?  We would rather use a grading scale that comes naturally, such as one presented in schools.  An A is 90% or better while a C is average at 70%.  Thus our 7/10 is average and 5/10 is poor.  When you get above 9, I quantify with 9.25 / 9.5 / 9.75 and I never give an item a 10 unless it is still in the cello and there are no noticeable flaws.  "No noticeable flaws" as in the perspective of a CIB guy, not a sealed perspective where a tiny corner poke already eliminates it from VGA 90 discussion.

So far we have 3 people in this thread talking about the crazy scale where 5/10 is average:

Bronty - Sealed collector.  No offense bud, but a sealed collector has no business establishing any sort of grading scale on CIBs.  You can't tell us how to do our jobs.

Guillavoie - Don't know what you collect but you also have sold / touched a lot of sealed.  Your opinion seems to be skewed since you are assuming CIBs are collectibles only and that CIB collectors don't play their games.

Frisbee - Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you fall into the "minority" that I discussed who actually would not play any of their games, or would store their boxes / carts separately.  There's no way you could have a 10 game and actually play it, I know you'd be paranoid that you'd damage it.  So my next question becomes, would you be collecting sealed Black Boxes if the prices were cheaper or if you got into the hobby several years back when they were still cheap?  If you would then you are a sealed guy hiding in a CIB collector's body, so your opinion makes more sense.

Allow me to conclude with this.  Of people that play video games, the average person views them as games while a select few view them as collectibles.  Of people that drive cars, the average person views them as transportation, while a select few view them as collectibles.  Those that view the items as collectibles have their own scales (sealed games / antique cars) while the majority will have a more reasonable grading scale because they understand that the items will be used (games will be played / cars will be driven).  KBB.com gives 4 classifications for cars, Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor.  There's no discussion of Mint or Gem Mint or any attempt to quantify those levels.  Similarly, there's no reason for us to discuss those levels with CIB games when we know that most people that anal will hop over to Sealed at some point anyway.

Oh yeah, games are meant to be played

Problem is the box isn't involved in the actual process of play.

I like your point since carts were meant to be used. Similar to guns and swords -- when they've been battle-worn and have a patina (think Acti-plaque) those signs of age can add to the value.

Equating relics like those to mass-produced video games is a little strange, but I'm just saying you have a good point about what the intent for the collectible was. But I think the box winds up being more of a collectible piece of related marketing, like a sign or poster. And to my knowledge, signs and posters with signs of use/wear are always diminished in value. In fact, restoration is acceptable for such items and commonly increases value.

^ I agree to an extent as well. Cart only guys tend to be gamers first and collectors second. Sealed guys tend to be collectors first and gamers second. CIB represents a unique combination of the two. We want to preserve our games in original form but want to be able to play them as well.

The collectors of the items themselves should be responsible for establishing the grading criteria. I've met many more people that agree with my grading criteria than ones who oppose it, and those who oppose usually have a strong interest in sealed games as well.

You can't take a sealed scale and apply it uniformly to CIBs and carts, as the average collector in those markets is not nearly as anal. Otherwise someone like PSerge would never exist, his games would probably be negative numbers on Bronty's scale, yet PSerge still is willing to pay something for them. You have to have a scale that caters to the collectors of the items, and some cart guys are considered with functionality more than appearance.