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I have a dream... and other changes at retrousb for 2013

Oct 7, 2013 at 11:04:23 PM
xrgb (0)
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< Cherub >
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Drove down to Portland on Sunday to check out the HDMI NES and speak with bunnyboy. Thanks for putting up with my shenanigans. Here are some pictures from the Portland Retro Gaming Expo I'd like to share!

Photo Album: http://imgur.com/a/BmDIz...



Edited: 10/08/2013 at 12:27 PM by xrgb

Oct 7, 2013 at 11:45:34 PM
Tanooki (185)
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(The Wind Waker) < Bonk >
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Thanks for finally opening up a bit about it. Seems like a very interesting project and I am sure whoever all are on that test team are really putting in their dues and enjoying the ride. You seriously have piqued my interest due to how you went about constructing this as it totally isn't another one of your sorry chinese crap noac train wrecks at all. I can imagine people working with you on this taking a big set of steps probably using some official bug crunching database classifying, explaining, and documenting every little bit going backwards and forwards over it given the time for absolute quality. Even as a proto setup that shell looks pretty inviting considering how it wants to kind of, but not, look like the NES, and it takes care of anyones needs having all the ports you'll ever need for controllers and expansion devices. It may cost $150 or less, maybe not, but for most who can't figure out how to hack this or solder that, you kind of get an all in one safe device here that'll stand up to a NES, Famicom, or FDS(?) users needs.

Depending how this does price out I have to admit I've been tempted by this and the Retron 5, but all things considered I already have a GB Player, and don't care about Genesis anymore.  The Famicom and NES get me most and I have a new-ish old SNES that's well cared for so that's set.  I really have to wonder which way I'd go if I got one or the other.

You're not planning some interpolated audio or save/load states like that retron does right?


Edited: 10/07/2013 at 11:49 PM by Tanooki

Oct 7, 2013 at 11:49:50 PM
Elijah (161)
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(John (JD) Heins) < Wiz's Mom >
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Lookin good Brian, can't wait for this! The next 6 months will be torture for sure

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Oct 8, 2013 at 12:28:22 AM
Jordiway73 (20)
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I hope the final version is NES gray

Oct 8, 2013 at 12:46:29 AM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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(Alita Jean) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Originally posted by: 2A03

Is there a possibility of adding other video outputs aside from HDMI?
None at all, always was HDMI only.
 

R.I.P. Zapper Support...

Originally posted by: bunnyboy

It certainly isn't insulting to me if you pick the Retron 5, their system will do well and sell lots. This system just has a different mentality from the start.

Mine is a huge financial gamble for me that is still scary...

That said, I may still buy both a Retron5 and this...

-------------------------
~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...

Oct 8, 2013 at 12:55:17 AM
Benihana (154)
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(Don't Stop Believin!) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: Tanooki
 I am sure whoever all are on that test team are really putting in their dues and enjoying the ride.....
Your telling me! We found out just what excatly Qixmaster will do for an unreleased Homebrew game. But he has yet to go the distance to get a HDMI system to himself.
It is going to be interesting to see what he will do next.



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Oct 8, 2013 at 2:00:17 AM
bunnyboy (81)
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(Funktastic B) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: Tanooki

 or FDS(?) users needs.
One reason the cart door is so big is so the FDS RAM adapter will fit.  Also shows off xmas carts well  

Originally posted by: Tanooki

You're not planning some interpolated audio or save/load states like that retron does right?
No to both.  Interpolated audio is complete BS on the NES because the NES audio runs FAR faster than HDMI audio.  Samples need to be removed, not added.  Save states can't be done without knowledge of the cart mapper internals (and a storage medium) so they go on the PowerPak instead which has both of those.

Originally posted by: stardust4ever

R.I.P. Zapper Support...
Zapper is already killed by every TV for many years.  With the correct wiring and no frame buffer to add lag there is a chance an HDMI CRT would work but the number of those is very small.

Originally posted by: Jordiway73

I hope the final version is NES gray
Of course!  That proto is a 3d printed model and I couldn't paint it well.  It is nylon instead of ABS so even sanding it smooth was hard.

Oct 8, 2013 at 2:49:02 AM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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Happy birthday, Brian!

Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Originally posted by: stardust4ever

R.I.P. Zapper Support...
Zapper is already killed by every TV for many years.  With the correct wiring and no frame buffer to add lag there is a chance an HDMI CRT would work but the number of those is very small.
I remember back in 2003 when I started collecting NES, I had a hard time finding a zapper at my local used game shop. Now they have boat-loads of them. Hmmm... I guess the only way to enjoy zapper games is with a used system on a used (or old) TV. I've got a nice woodgrain TV that came out of my mom's old classroom. Beautiful picture btw. Hundreds of good CRTs die every day. Sad really.

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~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...


Edited: 10/08/2013 at 02:55 AM by Kosmic StarDust

Oct 8, 2013 at 6:55:51 AM
GibbyVA (32)
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(NESCAPADES ) < Meka Chicken >
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This looks awesome bunny.. It's great to see a pic of the proto. I'll be buying yours and the retron 5 as they both are fascinating to me. This for the Nintendo games and the R5 for my Master System ones.

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8-Bit Collection (no dupes) -  NES - 1,245 Famicom - 719  Master System - 255
Latest additions - AO, UXO, O-To-X, Rock Paper Scissors, Enigmacore, Cowlitz Gamers Adventure, Journey: The Game, Khan Games 4in1, Legends of Owlia

Oct 8, 2013 at 2:38:09 PM
robneal81 (0)

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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Zapper is already killed by every TV for many years.  With the correct wiring and no frame buffer to add lag there is a chance an HDMI CRT would work but the number of those is very small.
 

For Zapper support, you could always try an HDMI (via DVI) to VGA adapter like the HDFury:  http://www.hdfury.com/portfolio/hdfury/

I've never tested this myself, but it might work.

Oct 8, 2013 at 4:09:51 PM
eCockpit (12)
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

This is my dream project (no, the add on board was never the big one) and has been in active dev for a full year not including planning. It is the main reason why I shut down so much of the website and don't have time for other projects. The add on board could still happen using what I have developed but certainly not during 2014. It hit problems in Feb that made certain TV not work. It was essentially done, unless you had a Samsung. Rather than spending the time to fix that I moved onto the real project:

It is a clone that uses an FPGA to run the whole system, no software emulators or NOAC. Includes NES and Famicom slots, they are the same thing. Other cool stuff like Game Genie and Scoreboard built in.
It has 5 control ports with built in Four Score plus the Famicom expansion port.
It can run HDMI out for HD quality video, CD quality audio, and no frame buffers that add lag. Other than the expansion audio input from the cart there is no analog in the system.
It will be released some day at least 6 months from now. Fabrication and shipping takes 3 months alone!
It will cost money to buy, hopefully less than $150.
(thanks Mark!)

There will be the obvious comparisons to Retron 5 but I see them very different. I will never be able to compete on price against a large company with chinese factories and retail connections, so that alone makes the target market different. I am aiming for the smaller group that can tell when a clone has issues, instead of the mass who can't tell or don't notice and aren't thinking about quality. The people who want to use obscure controllers, original equipment, and play new homebrews. Even the styling is designed to remind you of the system you love. It certainly isn't insulting to me if you pick the Retron 5, their system will do well and sell lots. This system just has a different mentality from the start.

Mine is a huge financial gamble for me that is still scary...
Looks and sounds pretty legit!  It's like the Generation NEX done right!   WIll it be able to play CastleVania 3 and other problem carts?  And what will the scoreboard be, exactly? Other than that, I think I may have to save up some dough.



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Oct 8, 2013 at 4:14:48 PM
RetroDave (41)
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Looking good!

Will this hardware have the extra audio channel like a Famicom?

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Oct 8, 2013 at 5:17:57 PM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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Originally posted by: robneal81

Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Zapper is already killed by every TV for many years.  With the correct wiring and no frame buffer to add lag there is a chance an HDMI CRT would work but the number of those is very small.
 

For Zapper support, you could always try an HDMI (via DVI) to VGA adapter like the HDFury:  http://www.hdfury.com/portfolio/hdfury/

I've never tested this myself, but it might work.

DVI-VGA adapters will not work unless the DVI port supports analog DVI-A. Some PC video cards support this dual mode standard. DVI-D (digital) and HDMI share compatable video signals, but I can promist you attaching an HDMI/DVI-D adapter to a DVI-A/VGA will not work. And if you use a full-blown converter, it will likely employ a frame buffer, creating a delay of 16ms, which will render the zapper buggy or inoperable.


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~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...


Edited: 10/08/2013 at 05:18 PM by Kosmic StarDust

Oct 8, 2013 at 5:22:46 PM
robneal81 (0)

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That's not a "DVI to VGA adapter". That converts DVI-D (or HDMI) to VGA and is HDCP compatible. They're mainly used by people who need to use displays that don't support HDMI-in, such as some projectors or CRT monitors. I've owned one and I know it'll work perfect for playing games...I'm just not sure if light guns will work.

Oct 8, 2013 at 5:39:48 PM
bunnyboy (81)
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(Funktastic B) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: eCockpit

WIll it be able to play CastleVania 3 and other problem carts?  
CV3 is not a problem cart when the PPU is implemented properly, unlike in NOACs  

Originally posted by: RetroDave

Will this hardware have the extra audio channel like a Famicom?
Yup theres analog to digital converter for the expansion audio from NES and Famicom carts.  Having the separate audio jack in the top loader mod was ugly so all audio runs thro HDMI.   




Edited: 10/08/2013 at 05:40 PM by bunnyboy

Oct 8, 2013 at 6:43:04 PM
bigmak (52)
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Would pre-orders make the money situation a little less scary ?

Oct 8, 2013 at 6:44:33 PM
m308gunner (63)
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My next tax return will result in money being heaved at you. HEAVED I SAY!

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Oct 8, 2013 at 6:50:49 PM
Elijah (161)
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Yeah Kickstarter or preorder would be a great way to eliminate the risk

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Oct 8, 2013 at 6:54:42 PM
qixmaster (129)
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Kickstarter takes $$$

i think bb will destroy w/o them.

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eBay listings here


Edited: 10/08/2013 at 06:55 PM by qixmaster

Oct 8, 2013 at 7:03:51 PM
KKEYSER4063 (0)

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I'd be down to preorder, if it was made available to so.

Oct 8, 2013 at 7:27:58 PM
Tanooki (185)
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Well thanks for that info bunny, makes sense completely on both. I have to say I'm interested for sure. I've been wanting to get a few Famicom games for years but never bumped into an adapter locally in the wild ever and didn't want the headache of foreign stuff with my tv. This would eliminate that and you get that added audio it appears so that would really be sweet stuff with those highball audio experiences like Castlevania III (JP) has.

Well good luck on the testing, hope to see this pop up within a year, but you know, BE NINTENDO about it. Test, test, and test again, ten over-analyze the data, get nervous, delay and test some more. Be right the first time, don't play it like the other big console(modern) fish who just patch junk with band-aids.

Oct 8, 2013 at 9:51:19 PM
eCockpit (12)
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Originally posted by: KKEYSER4063

I'd be down to preorder, if it was made available to so.
X2!

Originally posted by: Tanooki

Well good luck on the testing, hope to see this pop up within a year, but you know, BE NINTENDO about it. Test, test, and test again, ten over-analyze the data, get nervous, delay and test some more. Be right the first time, don't play it like the other big console(modern) fish who just patch junk with band-aids.
Yep, make sure it's Flawless, or at least 90% flawless.  


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 If all else fails, use Fire!

My WTB: http://nintendoage.com/forum/mess...


Oct 9, 2013 at 5:29:41 AM
Smashbro29 (0)

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So it all runs via HDMI to the TV? There's no point in having a game genie or expansion thing anymore and it's a NES and Famicom in one? Please do a Kickstarter or IndieGoGo like... right now. You will have my money immediately.

Provided it is 1:1 with an NES of course.


Edited: 10/09/2013 at 05:30 AM by Smashbro29

Oct 9, 2013 at 9:35:40 AM
RetroDave (41)
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These details are getting me excited. This sounds like exactly what everyone wants.

There are people lining up to throw money at you on this one.

I have been more that satisfied with bunnyboy's products in the past. I am sure the quality of this will be top notch.

Top notch, I say.

Of all the notches... his is the top one.

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For sale/trade.  Want to trade for.


Edited: 10/09/2013 at 09:36 AM by RetroDave

Oct 9, 2013 at 4:00:04 PM
xrgb (0)
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< Cherub >
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

It can run HDMI out for HD quality video, CD quality audio, and no frame buffers that add lag.  Other than the expansion audio input from the cart there is no analog in the system.

...
Interpolated audio is complete BS on the NES because the NES audio runs FAR faster than HDMI audio.  Samples need to be removed, not added.


I take it that FC expansion audio is captured at 16-bit/44.1kHz, and the audio output via HDMI is 16bit/44.1kHz as well?  Have you experimented with capturing and outputting at 24-bit/48kHz or higher sampling frequencies?