My own quoted parts (cutting down the quote tree, but you know which) are specifically due to your FFVII thread last year. You asked if anyone had played the FFVII bootleg, and instead you got fifty posts about anything except people actually playing it.

If we want to talk about apples, and a couple people post about oranges, that is fine. However, when every post becomes about oranges, we're off track. When certain people show up only to make sure that the conversation always becomes about oranges, then we have a real problem.

Then again, if every time we have to ask that the conversation stay on apples, our whole conversation turns to grapes (usually sour ones), we have another issue.

The tone of the OP is fine, it solicited many great responses, Once the conversation was turned to oranges, then everything kind of went off as one person persisted in making sure it was about oranges. That seems to happen every time we try to talk about subjects in a certain way. I want to avoid a "pissing match" by asking those who only seem to see the world in that light to please not contribute in this one conversation. That's it, one conversation here and there where we can stay on track and meaningfully discuss something.

In order to give folks the benefit of the doubt, I set a few standards in the OP that asked that things be thought about from a certain perspective. I do not think that we should have to do that, but if every conversation that we have is going to see certain people enter in and steer things a certain way, then maybe we do need that once in a while. Maybe they do not understand that they are doing this? What easier way to make that clear than to ask for some inoffensive standards. The only way that it could offend people was if they did not have enough money for any brew, ever, in which case I still left room for that view. Indeed, the standards cannot even be known, except in cases where people have repearedly declared that they do not buy brews and never will. So it could be taken to a private thread I suppose, but that would be all of NA minus ten maybe?

Other than your post Paul, I have not read anything else. I respect your thoughts on things, and so I'll break my little rule of not monitoring the thread to see what you have to say. I don't want to have to steer the conversation certain places, I want to let it go where it will; except in cases where others are definitively trying to steer it away from the intended topic (and taking everyone else along for their ride).

"except in cases where people have repearedly declared that they do not buy brews and never will."

Who said this?

I hate to say it, but you may have to swallow the bitter pill that literally nobody cares that user said he won't buy brews. Why would we? It's an option like anything in this scene. Please foe each other. (sgp and user)

*edit* note I have nothing against either you or user. I just want to see this feud stop, at least publicly. Nobody cares.
 

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter to me whether someone buys or doesn't. It does matter to me that they are choosing to derail the conversation every time. It really becomes a problem if that person willfully directs the conversation to be about other things, and prevents real dialog by trying to quote other people and stack up opinions as to why it should not even be talked about; thereby turning a genuine discussion into a pissing match.

If someone has nothing to say, don't speak. Not everyone has input on every conversation. One off-topic or irrelevant response is fine, co-opting an entire thread is not.

There's always the option of hitting the reset button and trying to get the thread on track again, if that's really what you want, here. Do you or do you not want to talk about a QC system? I attempted to play devil's advocate earlier in the thread as you may have seen; but there seems to be little interest in it (so far).

What we're all saying, though, is that with this SPECIFIC issue with this SPECIFIC forum member, you could resolve 90%+ of your perceived problem by using the "foe" feature.

​The bulk of the "derailment" that stemmed from the offending posts seemed, at least to me, to be you letting yourself get dragged into replying to those posts, not that they sparked an on-going conversational spur from the rest of us, on their own.  (further derailment generally cascaded from various members commenting on the state of the conversation and the tone, rather than as direct replies to either of you)

​i.e. had you completely ignored user's posts, I don't think the conversation would have actually been particularly derailed or off-base from your topic and intent.

 

Is the FOE button a two way street? I sure hope it is. Never had to use it before, maybe it is time. But if it does not keep your posts from them, then they will be even more free to take things where they will, unless the community steps in and puts a stop to it.

If I had read any of the posts you mention, then your thought would carry more weight. All I was told (by others) was that he was stacking quotes and latching onto anything that kept the conversation from happening, derailment once again. You don't have to hit the foe button to skip over posts and not engage in specifics, and stop from getting dragged into them.

This whole thing started from things other people have said, and you never took the time to look into it yourself?

It does NOT hide your posts from them, unless they reciprocate the foe setting.

(at least, I'm assuming I've probably been "foe'd" over the years, and I've never had any signs of somebody's posts being hidden from me)



So other people were actually PM-ing you about this thread to complain about the derailment?

Color me skeptical, I guess, because the other posts in the thread didn't really feel like anybody else had an issue skipping them.





I guess this does raise an idea for a forum feature, though -- the ability to "locally foe" (or really "filter") threads to where you could simply filter-out specific users from your reading of a specific thread without needing to globally "foe" them.

Skimming back through the thread, while a couple of posts from user were very long, I don't see ANYTHING that aligns with your gripe, or the supposed complaints about "quote stacking".

His contributions are a very small portion of the overall thread.

And by-and-large, his posts are actually either on-topic, from his perspective, or they are a direct response to what some other member had already posted (so topical as replies).




Beau, I really think you're letting your issues with user cloud your judgment on this one.

Nope. I'm not losing sleep over petty arguments. Multiple people stating that it is going a certain direction is enough; particularly when we have seen it happen time and again. And if my statements didn't apply to anything, then there was absolutely no harm in them. I'd just be speaking to air and look like a crazy person.

Read my post above yours.

​The opinions of those "multiple people" don't really seem to be consistent with the actual thread.

 

I'm not going to take the time to show why and how they're correct in that thought (I read through them after I write my posts). It comes down to the fact that lately someone can't sneeze in the room or make any kind of remark about anything without people applying it to themselves. The famous Unlce Leo move: 



And I know you like to argue points, that's fine. My goal with the OP was specifically to keep from having a conversation about the conversation. I don't want to talk about grapes; more than a few posts and they go sour.

What I do want to talk about, which most everyone understood, was our role as buyers in shaping the community. That is it, an inoffensive idea that our actions have consequences, one direction or another. I am not looking for non-buyer views, specifically in order to keep from people trying to justify their actions as brewers. I want honest opinions about the  activity of buying, and a place where they can feel like their voices are respected and not attacked by brewers. Someone chiming in or harping on the idea that people shouldn't think about that is directly against the "spirit" outlined in the OP. State your peace and move on if you must, or keep silent and realize that it does not apply to you.

And I think that this is the last I am going to say on the matter. PM me if you must, otherwise let the conversation about the conversation go.

That section of the book was the most difficult thing I have ever had to put together, however I feel like I did everyone justice and I have included everything that I could find. 

I split it into 4 sections:
Physical NES Releases (no ROMs available typically)
Digital Releases
Limited Edition Releases
Upcoming Games

I tried to categorize everything as well as I could. I also have a 5th section going into my NES Compendium that I'm currently formatting that consists of Intervews with a ton of the people involved with NES game creation.

EDIT: This is me trying to get back on track talking about NES Homebrews and how I categorized them in my book to help clarify things. BTW

I applaud your effort,does that book include other system homebrew's too?

Thanks!

This book just focuses on the NES. However, my Complete SNES does contain SNES Homebrew games and all my future system releases will include homebrews for those as well. It all just takes time.

The NES Homebrew scene is definitely one of the largest though...

 

Post #1425, in reply to moderator Sadiko reply.


It is not a clash between two people.
It is a clash between two mentalities.

Minority:
Cheers for a friendly free market, in which knowledge and help are shared, but in the end each pick its own commercial strategy and (in the limits of what it is fair, legal and legit, of course) cares about his own wallet.

Majority:
Cheers for gentlemen agreements between hobbyists, in which releases and methods of distribution are planned and regulated together within the members, and in which each side economically supports the others.

Other members already pointed out the issue in this thread, before my first post, #46.

And here a previous chapter (seconds half of the thread, very boring reading) from the past:

http://vintage.nintendoage.com/fo...

If stating this in here is considered thread crapping or trolling, I have no problems being banned.
However, I do not see why this should be the case: I was 100% civil and polite in the whole thread.
And, unlike others, I talk about market concepts, not negatively judging morality and ethics of others.


***


@zi

I respect you, your intelligence, and your opinions.
You definitely think with your own head, and state what you think.
I disagree with some of your statements, and your conclusions.
If your products are good (and they are) you should not fear free market.
I stand up to defend anyone (except trolls) right to speak
(this above especially when to speak is someone like Shiru).
I have little patience with slow inconclusive sneaky talks.

I have a direct way to speak, I am not a good communicator, and I am too old to change that.

I am not afraid, I am not angry. I am allergic to crap arguments.
If you accept these arguments, the risk is to keep on losing creative people memberships.

If you care about understanding our irritation, read Lord of The Flies by William Golding.
Definitely more entertaining and well written than my posts.


***


@everyone

As already said in previous post #1424, I am done posting in public Brewery.
Do not quote me in this thread. I will feel the duty to reply.
If you need to continue this conversation with me, use PMs or emails.
I prefer further conversations on the subject to be handled privately.
Do not derail this thread any further.

I am not angry at NA, I am not angry at any NA member. I have not hard feelings.
I am irritated (and this is an euphemism) about a specific (IMO pathetic) mentality some collectors have.
This Brewery, and its threads, should be open to every NA member.
And, if you really need to make a hierarchy, then it is creators first.
It is "The Brewery", not "Homebrew/Independent Collectors Corner".
And from private communications that I get, we are a minority, but I am not alone thinking in such way.

If I'll be banned for stating all this, I'll take it like a man and shut up, no big deal at all.
I don't care if you don't care. And things that truly matter in my life, are others. Good shaping.

Sincerely.

If there is something ban worthy in your posts in this thread then I will have lost all respect for the mods responsible.

I doubt you need to worry about that..

Good morning everyone!

What Arch said, exactly.  

Just because somebody doesn't want things discussed doesn't mean they won't be eventually discussed either in that thread or elsewhere in the forum.

And I think a thread like this is more of an outlier rather than status quo (although I don't frequent the Brewery section that much, since there are other areas of NA that I'm more drawn to).   

Shiru, I get frustration (trust me, I damn near gave this whole place the double middle finger on my way out about a year or so ago), but I would ask you to reconsider, or at least take a deep breath and think things over.