There is a lot of comment these days about homebrew! People are talking about numbered versions and golden versions and the high amount of cash they fetch on ebay$$

I heard a lot of opions of members and its a though topic!

Al this attention gave me a great idea!!

I would like to ask people (zzap/albailey/bunnyboy/sivak/ langenfeld/or anybody else ) how make special carts(homebrew or special reproduction protos)in the future to obey the GOLDEN homebrew rule!

PLEASE PUT 1 SPECIAL CART ON EBAY FOR CHARITY!

(i mean come on people think about it.... Some special carts go for real high prices$$ for a nes cart!! a piece of plastic when there are so much good charity goals out there that could really use a dollar or a euro)

I hope you people are supporting me on this 1

Good call dutch, I agree

Maybe a percentage, sure, but ultimately these guys put in a TON of hard work and I'd like to see them profit from it before others do. If anything I think it would be some solid advertising for Retrozone (if its a BB release), but I think that charitable decisions should be made by the creators and them alone.

for all of the work and money that they put into these games, they are probably making like $2 an hour (or less) once they sell all of the games (including the LEs / gold carts), so instead of them giving their money to charity, we should start a charity for them!!! let the creator of the game decide how much or how little he/she wants to donate to a charity. if that person doesn't want to, then that is a decision only he/she could make, and we should be fine with it! just enjoy the games, because it isnt easy to make them or else eeeeeeeeeeeeeeveryone would be doing it! if i could make one, i would do a 4th panesian, but thats only because i think they are hilarious... i would also have the horrible English in the game as well! haha

I will post my thoughts to this from what I posted over at NESworld....

There is another aspect of this I don't think you guys are really thinking of. It costs a LOT of money to make a new CIB game. I am working on one myself right now and I will have well over $4000 in the production costs. Selling 1-2 of the special edition ones helps recoup some of the cost, and gives people who don't want to help out on the project a chance to get one. IMO most of the people who are complaining about these are people who would never put up all the money to produce the new games to start with. It is a huge risk and investment to make stuff like this happen but that fact tends to get over looked. It hasn't been easy for me to come up with 4k to produce a new game for the community....and I will probably be lucky if I break even on it after all is said and done.

People want homebrews, but they don't want to put the money up for them to be made and just expect someone to do it. I would just be greatful that people are willing to put there hard earned money up for projects like this, otherwise we will stop getting new games. Just my 2 cents....keep doing what you are doing homebrewers!
~~NGD

2 replies and there both about profit! MONEY GREED

If these people make homebrew they should enyoh making/creating them (and that should be the only reason,enyoh making it and playing and sharing it)if its about profit then we got a serieus problem with homebrew here!
And homebrew will get a bad rep.

money(greed) is the root of all evil people!

Be realistic Dutch. It takes money (and lots of it) to make these. If the homebrew guys lose money why would they want to do it at all. You have to at least break even...and that isn't even accounting for your time.
~~NGD

I agree with you NGD. All of the naysayers need to come to grips with real life, and understand that you can run a successful business by losing money.

I think charitable donation is good. But God only asks me to give away 10% off the top.

I see no reason why the guys making LE's can't recoup some of their production costs by receiving the perceived full value of their work. The people that have a problem with this concept should just shut up and by the general release, since the LE effects them in no way, whatsoever beyond the fact that some item exists that they may never obtain (boo hoo!)

I disagree, completely. There's absolutely nothing wrong with someone who makes a homebrew to make a profit. That's like saying any manufacturer is evil for making a profit, no? Just because someone enjoy's it doesn't mean that have to break even or take a loss, "for the community." And wanting to make money isn't greed -- it's simple commerce, and people do it every day, and that's what drives any open economy. Why is there this mysterious theme that assumes that all homebrew creators should just do it for the "good of all"?

(not that I wouldn't do it, but...)

How much do people give to charity anyways? Shouldn't it be up to the buyer to decide whether they want to help people instead of buying something they don't need? If you are calling for others to donate, when was the last time you personally gave away a couple thousand dollars for nothing?

Many people here buy and sell tons of stuff, when will they be expected to give away profits too? Why would only homebrew have the charity tax when other items sell for far more? As far as I can remember there have been no non-homebrew sales for charity, yet thousands of dollars in sales every day. What percentage of the money from an NWC, Stadium Events, or a collection sellout should be asked?

Making profit from reselling games or systems is no problem, but once it is your own work/time/cash to create something brand new then some people seem to think profit is evil. If I sold my collection I would make TONS of profit, every expensive item is now at least double the price I paid just from sitting on my shelf doing nothing. Nobody would complain that I did no work to get that cash. But somehow making far less money from selling a game I spent the time to create isn't acceptable?

If you would like to lose money for the good of the community, there are still many private protos you can buy for a thousand dollars and donate. Without giving up your own cash you don't have much of a position to ask others to do the same.

"Charity is for people who don't pay taxes" -Dad

Yeah umm, nothing against you personally Dutch but this is really starting to get old.  I dont agree with your opinion, or anyone else that has been complaining about the homebrew scene recently. 

Alright, first off...  you cant force people to give their money away.  I once worked for a company that did that.  It wasnt written anywhere that you had to donate to their charities and I wasnt going to. I have never had much money and the little I do have goes towards things that me or my family needs.  When the deadline to donate came along I had several other employees tell me that I might want to donate because the people who hadnt donated in the past, are the ones who never got promotions or bonuses and were the first to lose their jobs.  Basically they added you to the shit list if you didnt give your money away to make them look good.  I think thats fucked up.

Also, the people making new games dont and wont ever have to follow any of your rules.  So what if they make a few bucks?  Seriously, I wish people would just shut the hell up and let them do their thing.  I love having new games come out and I really dont understand why some people are always giving them shit and trying to tell them how to do things.  If you want things done a certain way, make your own game and do things your way.  Stop trying to ruin it for the people who actually enjoy the games.

I think you don't understand what's involved here. The Homebrewers do care about the community, that's why they make a game and release it in the first place. It costs a ton to produce a homebrew in good number. That money has to be paid up front. Most homebrews are lucky to break even on costs. some do end up costing the producer money than they make back.

Second, why shouldn't someone make money of their work? The margin on a homebrew is MAYBE about $5 a cart. If you sell 250(which is a VERY successful homebrew), that's like $1250. It may sound like a lot, but that would cover my morgage and bills for a month maybe. It's not a killing, it's not even a living, it's just a little compensation for some hard work.  Most homebrews are lucky to sell 100 copies, so you're looking at about $500 on average.

I would pay more for homebrews personally, I think producers should get more. I think more money would be a good motivater to get more new games. I'd rather drop $50 on a NES homebrew than $60 on some next-gen piece of crap.

There's no problem with making money, otherwise quit your job and become a drifter. You make money at your job, so that must be evil. You'll say, but you do hard, honest work for your money.  Well, so do homebrewers.

Money greed? That was the most hilarious post I've ever read. We're talking FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS here. That isn't chump change, Dutch.

If you have an extra four grand that you just don't need, feel free to donate it to the help Kevin move to Utah charity. I mean, it's only four thousand dollars. You won't miss it, apparently.

Interesting the last thread that started like this was a lot more split down the middle as far as opinion. Waiting for Stan to speak up, he was the big talker last time

I think it's not a HORRIBLE idea Dutch, but I think you approached it from a bad angle. Instead of trying to label it as a golden rule or whatever, I think it would've been a much more productive thread if you put it up as an idea you had. Using the words "golden rule" makes it sound kinda forceful, like if someone didn't do that, then they're not a good person or something.

Maybe you could try talking to different devvers one-on-one and see what they think, like organize a deal for Child's Play or something, you know, per user basis. As stated, it's in poor taste to try and force someone to give to a charity.

Like I said, not a horrible idea to do something like that, but your approach kinda killed your idea from the get go.

I think the only golden rule about any homebrew (or game making in general) should just be for the author to vigorously bug test it and determine: "Is this something I would expect people to enjoy and is it the way I want it?"

I don't know where this whole charity thing came about. Most authors aren't in this for the money as development by a third party for a system that reached its peak in the early 90's isn't exactly going to yield a lot of profits. I think of this as a hobby with a few extra bucks involved and nothing more.

How about WE all GUARANTEE to give to a charity. Take the responsibilty off the game-makers and sellers...they do the hard work and investing.
Let us start a list of those members who PROMISE to ALWAYS buy a new homebrew (at a higher limited edition price)a week before the actual release. Those people will get a "special version" (whatever you want to call it...hell, it could just be signed by the creator) guaranteed to them. The creators get to KNOW that they will have sales to offset the work and investment. And if we choose...take a portion of those "higher cost" sales to submit to a charity/organization etc. .

Those who choose not to honor the commitments get removed from the list for 100 years.
Some obvious details would have to be dealt with, but the concept is sound.
If you remove the financial barrier, my guess is that a few more individuals might create some more titles.

NOW, do we want to pay for these services, and support the home brew community...or just snivel and whine that we did not get a chance?
Needless to say, my name will be first on the list.

^^^ the only problem with that is that there would have to be some sort of vetting process for shitty games.

While I'm happy to purchase any quality homebrew, I would be a bit miffed if I was expected to pay $40 for a game of HI/LO or single pile NIM.

Bringing a homebrew to market is a risk these guys willingly take.
I applaud their efforts, but a subscription service to reduce market uncertainty probably isn't viable or necessary.

If brewers want to make 10 (or 50) LE games and sell them at a premium...more power to them if people are happy to pay for it.

I think most of the complaints (at least NesWorld's massive rant) stemmed from buying an LE that they for some reason think won't ever see a general release and then feeling ripped off that a standard edition came into being.

Either that, or these guys are jealous that somebody created a sought-after item that people are willing to *gasp* pay money for! Let the brewers make a profit. It's pretty obvious that people who disagree with that concept haven't had much time in the "real world" to understand that profit makes the world go 'round.

That would cover your mortgage *and* bills for a month?   Jesus I'd be lucky to get a week out of that number.    Where do you live and what's a house cost where you are?   I know the property market where I am in ridiculous but hearing you say that just puts it back into perspective as to how expensive property is here for the first time buyer.

ok, where to start

first of me and my wife each pick 1 charity goal at the start of the year and support that for 1 year and then pick 2 different the next year

Second i work as a male nurse and work with terminal ill people.
I think everyboy should do this in his live as part of the school education,It really changes your look at live.

I do this work because i want to make a difference (side note my wife her dad owns a company if i wanted it i could work there and earn 3 x as much)if i would do this i could better sell my soul while im at it.

i Cant stand that money mentality $$ are yo really happy doing work only for big bucks so you can buy bigger and more stuff you dont need?

and i hope its not your job to make nes games but a hobby!

where does 4k come from?
Lets say i find a unreleased game and dump it on cart

it would cost me $25 a cart? (with donors?)

i would make 50 x 25=$1250

5 golden carts thats just the same only 5 zelda's carts go for insane ebay prices $250 and there you go!

wow i found a unreleased game in the wild dumped it,repacked some in old zelda carts and sold them high$$
that was real hard work and i really EARNED this money.

come on give me a break!

Anyways this whole charity thing is a nice idea but yeah you can't force it on people. In many ways creating the homebrew is a charitable project in the first place. Nobody's doing this for the money I don't think.

agreed. forced charity is called taxation, and we already pay enough of that. Actually all homebrew/repro makers should be paying into government-imposted charity because they should be paying income tax on the net of their proceeds. You'd have bunnyboy give hundreds to the March of Dimes or whatthefuckever before paying proper income tax?

I don't trust Charities. If anything I'll take some guy/gal that's hungry I meet out to lunch and make sure my money does the right thing.

Well Bronty, I only have about 110k left to pay on my house, I paid a lot up front when I built it so my morgage is about $680, I have about $400 in utilities , etc a monthso that's about $1100. If you wanna add in health care and my set aside for property taxes, it's closer to $2800 a month. So, ya if wouldn't cover everything, but a morgage payment and my utilities it'd be close.