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Marks Of Developers That Finish Homebrews What are some marks that show whether or not someone will finish a game?

Oct 02 at 3:55:46 PM
LambBrainz (0)

(Mason Stooksbury) < Cherub >
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Hello! My name is LambBrainz and I'm new here. I've got several years of programming experience (professional and hobby) and I've started work on my own homebrew (Already spent wayyy too many hours of research and started the Nerdy Nights guide.

For those among you that have been on the forums a while, I'm sure you've seen many newcomers that show up, get really excited about their game, ask for help, hit a wall, and eventually fizzle out. So my question is this:

What are some indicators to you that tell you whether or not someone will continue making their game to the end?

Yes, obviously, not giving up is one lol. But are there any early indicators that you've noticed?

Thanks so much, and I look forward to getting to know and talk to you all!
LambBrainz
 

Oct 02 at 4:19:02 PM
Tulpa (2)
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< Wiz's Mom >
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Regular updates and transparency (esp. in regards to crowdfunding.)

Those who talk a big game up front but then disappear seem to be the ones to not continue their project.

Oct 02 at 4:22:33 PM
LambBrainz (0)

(Mason Stooksbury) < Cherub >
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By transparency, do you mean like, "Hey here's my game, here's what it's about, blah blah blah"? Or mostly like "Here's exactly how I'd spend every dollar"?

Oct 02 at 4:29:21 PM
Tulpa (2)
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< Wiz's Mom >
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I don't think it has to be an exact breakdown to the dollar, but a reason for the Kickstarter is appreciated. Like the game, Rollie, has this on their page.

https://www.kickstarter.com/proje...

"Risks and challenges

The programming of Rollie is 100% finished. However, the physical production of NES cartridges is costly. This Kickstarter campaign serves as a way to raise funds for that goal."

Oct 02 at 4:31:46 PM
LambBrainz (0)

(Mason Stooksbury) < Cherub >
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Right! That makes sense. Micro Mages did something similar and I remember really appreciating that approach. Thanks for the tip!

Oct 02 at 5:20:09 PM
BouncekDeLemos (81)
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(Bouncy Blooper) < Wiz's Mom >
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Hell, anything could happen. What stops my projects is... well, life. I usually jump back on something when I have room to breathe.

-------------------------
Originally posted by: dra600n

I feel bad, but, that's magic.
Sell/Trade: NA - http://goo.gl/Bi25pL... SA - http://goo.gl/qmKao... PSC - http://goo.gl/VYlKhP...
http://goo.gl/xmzKR...

 

Oct 02 at 5:55:55 PM
KHAN Games (89)
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(Kevin Hanley) < Master Higgins >
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I think mostly it's the test of time. When someone realizes that it isn't going to be easy, usually they bail. But if they're still here after, say, a couple months, and still actively working on something, they'll probably finish it to some degree.

-------------------------

gauauu: look, we all paid $10K at some point in our lives for the privilege of hanging out with Kevin


Oct 02 at 8:26:53 PM
SoleGooseProductions (129)
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(Beau ) < King Solomon >
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Weezer tatts.

-------------------------
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long..." ~ Blade Runner

SoleGooseProductions.com


Oct 02 at 8:27:31 PM
toma (0)
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(Tomas Guinan) < Crack Trooper >
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If you take a look at successfully crowdfunded games that went well over target and delivered, they generally were either finished, nearly finished, had a nice looking demo, or a track record of delivering on previous releases. If someone has a few sparse art assets or very limited game play, I'd be a little more skeptical, especially if it's their first time. Overall, I think the NES scene as a whole is pretty good at delivering though. I know there's been missed deadlines for a few games, but I don't remember anyone ever just taking a bunch of cash and bailing.

-------------------------
http://www.spoonybard.ca
 

Oct 02 at 8:45:30 PM
SoleGooseProductions (129)
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(Beau ) < King Solomon >
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Of the crowd funded projects, there has not been one that I can think of that has become 100% dead. Even those that have been in development for four plus years still get updates. For someone to cut and run burns all bridges for future work and community involvement.

But that is not what I think you're talking about. You're asking about folks who show up, are super excited, dive right in, and then disappear. We all could have been that person, but some of us stuck around while others went their own ways. The biggest mark for me over the years has been someone who sticks around. Maybe they have highs and lows, but they're still here. They just plug away, get involved, shape the community, and make connections. They're not in it for the money (which comes and goes), and they're not in it for fame (which also comes and goes), they just like doing this.

Those same types of questions apply to active devs, and who we will see still doing this in five or ten years. Finishing one game is/isn't a huge accomplishment, but sticking around for the long haul takes some real dedication. And then there's always life, that gets in the way too, and even the best dev falls prey to that. Some of the folks in the community have been doing this for over two decades, and their involvement has ebbed and flowed over the years. I learn about what it means to be a part of a community from them as much as I do anything they have to directly teach me about programming.

And then there are those who are genuinely done, and have their reasons, and that is ok too. We all contribute, but many of the folks in that last group did it for the best reasons, made their dream game, and then had other stuff come up. Getting a little far away from your question, but they're great people too, and I consider many of them friends so I wanted to clarify.

In the end, Weezer tatts are still the correct answer. That and just sticking it out. Show up and start talking about your super amazing project that you just started, I'm bound to gloss over it. Stick around for a few years, get involved, ask questions, and also talk about your super amazing project, I'm all ears. In all cases, though, I hope people finish their dream project and get back to it someday. We're programming for a dead console, only you get to decide when you're actually throwing in the towel.

-------------------------
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long..." ~ Blade Runner

SoleGooseProductions.com


Oct 02 at 8:45:38 PM
SoleGooseProductions (129)
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(Beau ) < King Solomon >
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Of the crowd funded projects, there has not been one that I can think of that has become 100% dead. Even those that have been in development for four plus years still get updates. For someone to cut and run burns all bridges for future work and community involvement.

But that is not what I think you're talking about. You're asking about folks who show up, are super excited, dive right in, and then disappear. We all could have been that person, but some of us stuck around while others went their own ways. The biggest mark for me over the years has been someone who sticks around. Maybe they have highs and lows, but they're still here. They just plug away, get involved, shape the community, and make connections. They're not in it for the money (which comes and goes), and they're not in it for fame (which also comes and goes), they just like doing this.

Those same types of questions apply to active devs, and who we will see still doing this in five or ten years. Finishing one game is/isn't a huge accomplishment, but sticking around for the long haul takes some real dedication. And then there's always life, that gets in the way too, and even the best dev falls prey to that. Some of the folks in the community have been doing this for over two decades, and their involvement has ebbed and flowed over the years. I learn about what it means to be a part of a community from them as much as I do anything they have to directly teach me about programming.

And then there are those who are genuinely done, and have their reasons, and that is ok too. We all contribute, but many of the folks in that last group did it for the best reasons, made their dream game, and then had other stuff come up. Getting a little far away from your question, but they're great people too, and I consider many of them friends so I wanted to clarify.

In the end, Weezer tatts are still the correct answer. That and just sticking it out. Show up and start talking about your super amazing project that you just started, I'm bound to gloss over it. Stick around for a few years, get involved, ask questions, and also talk about your super amazing project, I'm all ears. In all cases, though, I hope people finish their dream project and get back to it someday. We're programming for a dead console, only you get to decide when you're actually throwing in the towel.

-------------------------
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long..." ~ Blade Runner

SoleGooseProductions.com


Oct 03 at 3:42:05 AM
TylerBarnes (0)
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(Tyler Barnes) < Little Mac >
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I, too, found Nerdy Nights and was motivated and excited at how accessible to series really makes assembly code and getting to know the NES hardware. The feeling of quick progress really makes one feel a completed project is well within reach. This, I feel is what can compel newcomers to wish to make posts about their ideas very early in their learning stage.

This sort of phenomena you describe of entering a new community excited and ambitious only to drop off later, is one of the things that made me not want to really say I was working on anything until I had a grasp for if I was going to cut it or not with ASM. Also wanted to wait until I had a working prototype for my ROM that was 70% of the way there excluding the music. Even in the chiptune community (more my origins) people will get excited come in and make a song, post a 'critique my first song' thread and never really make anything after.

One contribution to why people sometimes might become disinterested or stop trying to develop their project is when they jump the gun on trying to get positive feedback and reassurance from people before the project has enough substance to warrant proper praise. For example, most people make projects cause they feel others may get enjoyment out of it and wish to see that happen. The feedback and positive reinforcement is a sort of goal or reward as it were for making the project. So, if posting a half project or concept starts to get them this praise already, some people's motivations can dwindle as a result of this pseudo payoff. I certainly fall victim to this too, and first noticed this effect in myself before I realized it was a common roadblock for creatives. For this reason I stopped showing people WIP songs if I am attempting to compose anything.

Oct 03 at 9:30:05 AM
JamesRobot (22)
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(JamsGobot ) < King Solomon >
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Originally posted by: SoleGooseProductions

Weezer tatts.

Word. Lol.

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Oct 03 at 9:31:43 AM
GradualGames (39)
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(Derek Andrews) < El Ripper >
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1) Does the developer have an indentured servant creating art or other assets for them in exchange for room and board

If the answer is yes, they will finish homebrews

-------------------------
Creators of: Nomolos: Storming the CATsle, and The Legends of Owlia.

Oct 03 at 5:50:56 PM
m308gunner (63)
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(Jason ) < King Solomon >
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Originally posted by: GradualGames

1) Does the developer have an indentured servant creating art or other assets for them in exchange for room and board

If the answer is yes, they will finish homebrews
So... a game gimp?

 

-------------------------
 

Oct 07 at 3:04:04 PM
FrankenGraphics (3)
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< Crack Trooper >
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Either one:

they've proven themselves before

or

at least 2 people are working on the project with some degree of mutual authorship. There's less accountability if you give up for yourself.

that's the consumer trust side of things for me. For the aspiring homebrewer, i think the rate of success is proportional to defining small enough projects. Get a nice picture to display. Move a dot from a to b. add music. Display text. Display text conditional on user input. Make a do-thingy. Make pong, pool or jumpman with a twist.

-------------------------
http://www.frankengraphics.com/ - personal NES homebrew blog


Edited: 10/07/2019 at 03:08 PM by FrankenGraphics

Oct 08 at 12:48:43 PM
Optomon (0)
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(Chris Lincoln) < Little Mac >
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Finishers develop gradually, inch by inch, both their projects and as developers. They show up every day, do their homework, make wise choices, make no excuses, and understand there are no shortcuts.

Also I don't know about others, but I tend to build much of my life around projects and not the other way around. It gets me into IRL trouble sometimes, but keeps the project in focus. When I don't finish it's because I get obsessive and overrate my time, energy and strategies, and things become too large or unmanageable. That was pretty much how things were 2008-2015 for me. So what has been said in here about having smaller scale projects at first is fairly true as far as success and finishing goes, but you will still develop and learn a lot even in failure.

-------------------------
 


Edited: 10/08/2019 at 12:50 PM by Optomon

Oct 08 at 2:44:32 PM
zi (73)
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(Tom Rag) < King Solomon >
Posts: 3100 - Joined: 06/02/2008
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Originally posted by: SoleGooseProductions

Of the crowd funded projects, there has not been one that I can think of that has become 100% dead. Even those that have been in development for four plus years still get updates. For someone to cut and run burns all bridges for future work and community involvement.

But that is not what I think you're talking about. You're asking about folks who show up, are super excited, dive right in, and then disappear. We all could have been that person, but some of us stuck around while others went their own ways. The biggest mark for me over the years has been someone who sticks around. Maybe they have highs and lows, but they're still here. They just plug away, get involved, shape the community, and make connections. They're not in it for the money (which comes and goes), and they're not in it for fame (which also comes and goes), they just like doing this.

Those same types of questions apply to active devs, and who we will see still doing this in five or ten years. Finishing one game is/isn't a huge accomplishment, but sticking around for the long haul takes some real dedication. And then there's always life, that gets in the way too, and even the best dev falls prey to that. Some of the folks in the community have been doing this for over two decades, and their involvement has ebbed and flowed over the years. I learn about what it means to be a part of a community from them as much as I do anything they have to directly teach me about programming.

And then there are those who are genuinely done, and have their reasons, and that is ok too. We all contribute, but many of the folks in that last group did it for the best reasons, made their dream game, and then had other stuff come up. Getting a little far away from your question, but they're great people too, and I consider many of them friends so I wanted to clarify.

In the end, Weezer tatts are still the correct answer. That and just sticking it out. Show up and start talking about your super amazing project that you just started, I'm bound to gloss over it. Stick around for a few years, get involved, ask questions, and also talk about your super amazing project, I'm all ears. In all cases, though, I hope people finish their dream project and get back to it someday. We're programming for a dead console, only you get to decide when you're actually throwing in the towel.

OMG STOP POSTING THIS!
 

-------------------------

I AM ZI, CHIPTUNE ARTIST FOR THE NINTENDO ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM, COMPOSER OF BOTH BLEEPS AND BOPS, VIRTUOSO OF INSTRUMENT FABRICATION, MERCENARY OF THE RETRO MUSICAL SOUNDSCAPE! THE SEGA DEVELOPMENT GUYS KNOW ME AS KNUCKLES SPRINGSTEIN, THE LONG ISLANG GEEK SQUAD KNOW ME AS ABE ECKSTEIN'S BOY, AND I AM KNOWN IN CANADA AS THAT KEENER WHO ALWAYS GETS THE NUMBER TWO BREAKFAST COMBO AT TIMMIES... and there are other secret names you do not know of yet.

Oct 08 at 3:25:41 PM
SoleGooseProductions (129)
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(Beau ) < King Solomon >
Posts: 3503 - Joined: 04/22/2013
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Originally posted by: zi

Originally posted by: SoleGooseProductions

Of the crowd funded projects, there has not been one that I can think of that has become 100% dead. Even those that have been in development for four plus years still get updates. For someone to cut and run burns all bridges for future work and community involvement.

But that is not what I think you're talking about. You're asking about folks who show up, are super excited, dive right in, and then disappear. We all could have been that person, but some of us stuck around while others went their own ways. The biggest mark for me over the years has been someone who sticks around. Maybe they have highs and lows, but they're still here. They just plug away, get involved, shape the community, and make connections. They're not in it for the money (which comes and goes), and they're not in it for fame (which also comes and goes), they just like doing this.

Those same types of questions apply to active devs, and who we will see still doing this in five or ten years. Finishing one game is/isn't a huge accomplishment, but sticking around for the long haul takes some real dedication. And then there's always life, that gets in the way too, and even the best dev falls prey to that. Some of the folks in the community have been doing this for over two decades, and their involvement has ebbed and flowed over the years. I learn about what it means to be a part of a community from them as much as I do anything they have to directly teach me about programming.

And then there are those who are genuinely done, and have their reasons, and that is ok too. We all contribute, but many of the folks in that last group did it for the best reasons, made their dream game, and then had other stuff come up. Getting a little far away from your question, but they're great people too, and I consider many of them friends so I wanted to clarify.

In the end, Weezer tatts are still the correct answer. That and just sticking it out. Show up and start talking about your super amazing project that you just started, I'm bound to gloss over it. Stick around for a few years, get involved, ask questions, and also talk about your super amazing project, I'm all ears. In all cases, though, I hope people finish their dream project and get back to it someday. We're programming for a dead console, only you get to decide when you're actually throwing in the towel.

OMG STOP POSTING THIS!
 

I know, it's elitist to think that anyone can do it, right   ?


-------------------------
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long..." ~ Blade Runner

SoleGooseProductions.com


Oct 09 at 2:24:18 PM
Gauauu (1)
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(Nathan Tolbert) < Tourian Tourist >
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Originally posted by: LambBrainz

What are some indicators to you that tell you whether or not someone will continue making their game to the end?
 

Very rarely does somebody start with their first game being a huge epic project, and actually finish it. You see more successes from people that start medium/small, and get a feel for the system, before announcing a grand huge game.

If somebody comes in with no experience, and immediately starts talking about their 40-hour-rpg idea (particularly if they spend all their time talking about the game design and not asking technical questions), I assume we'll never see anything from them.  If you start by making a cool small game for the nesdev compo, and then afterwards you talk about what's next, I'm much more likely to believe you'll finish it.
 

-------------------------
My games: http://bitethechili.com

Oct 09 at 2:34:25 PM
LambBrainz (0)

(Mason Stooksbury) < Cherub >
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Thanks for the response, Gauauu. I've heard several people mention the NesDev compo. Is there a link or forum thread with some more deets on that? I'd love to do something small and try my hand at it.

Oct 09 at 3:18:20 PM
GradualGames (39)
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(Derek Andrews) < El Ripper >
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If you're someone who likes to grit their teeth and wrestle with a sisyphean task for years rolling a boulder up a mountain and that sounds like good fun to you, you will finish homebrews. If you're someone who gets easily excited and also easily bored, you are very unlikely to finish any homebrews. You basically have to be a soldier. This is true of any big game project actually. Or any big project period. Be wary of that super excited "new thing" feeling that you get when getting into any new hobby---that will not be enough to sustain you. You have to commit to it old school. UNDERSTAND ME SCRUB?  

-------------------------
Creators of: Nomolos: Storming the CATsle, and The Legends of Owlia.


Edited: 10/09/2019 at 03:18 PM by GradualGames

Oct 09 at 3:27:07 PM
LambBrainz (0)

(Mason Stooksbury) < Cherub >
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Understood! I've generally been the first type of person you mentioned. But time will tell lol

Oct 10 at 3:46:36 PM
Gauauu (1)
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(Nathan Tolbert) < Tourian Tourist >
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Originally posted by: LambBrainz

Thanks for the response, Gauauu. I've heard several people mention the NesDev compo. Is there a link or forum thread with some more deets on that? I'd love to do something small and try my hand at it.

Here's the website devoted to it, but it hasn't been updated for this year. There's also subforums on nesdev about it. This year hasn't seen much action yet, but I bet people will show up.  Short version -- you make a small game using one of a few set mappers, submit it at the end of January. People play them, rank them, and a few folks get a prize. Everyone that submits something halfway-decent theoretically gets a cartridge of all the entries.

 
Originally posted by: GradualGames

If you're someone who likes to grit their teeth and wrestle with a sisyphean task for years rolling a boulder up a mountain and that sounds like good fun to you, you will finish homebrews. If you're someone who gets easily excited and also easily bored, you are very unlikely to finish any homebrews. You basically have to be a soldier. This is true of any big game project actually. Or any big project period. Be wary of that super excited "new thing" feeling that you get when getting into any new hobby---that will not be enough to sustain you.
This is very true. Expect a large game to take years. You'll get bored and see shiny distractions. Do you have the persistence to finish? Only time will tell...

-------------------------
My games: http://bitethechili.com

Oct 10 at 3:47:42 PM
Gauauu (1)
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(Nathan Tolbert) < Tourian Tourist >
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Also...it's perfectly ok to be someone who shows up, has some fun learning, and never releases anything much. Everyone treats their hobbies differently, and finishing a game doesn't make someone instrinsically better than someone who doesn't. Just do what you want to do.

-------------------------
My games: http://bitethechili.com