Bullshit.  For some maybe, but some people have standards, whether collector or not.  Similar example.  If you see two CDs at a store, same album, one has the artwork and one is loose CD, which would YOU buy?  You said that you would grab the one with the artwork?  Why, if you are just in it for the music, why does one want the art work to go with?    I take good care of the shit I own, and if I buy something new, I make sure that I grab the nicest one possible.  If it has a price sticker on it, I will remove it, and if it has some other dirt and what not, I will try to clean it to make it look nicer.  I don't want to own something that looks like shit, whether it is a game, beer bottle, CD, book, painting, or guitar we are talking about.  It has nothing to do with collecting, it has everything to do with how it looks.  I don't collect games anymore, buit I don't want some shitty ass thing sitting in my collection, and there are others that feel the same way.  Oh, and before someone tries to "get me" on a technicality, I am using the sort of definition for collection as "a group of numerous items i.e. several beer bottles, several books relating to the wild west, several NES carts, etc".  Just because I have  a "collection" doesn't mean that I collect anything.  If so, then many people have DVD collections, etc.

BUt getting back to the point, yeah, there are many casual gamers who still care about how their games look, even if they don't actively  collect them.  This is quite understandable, and quite frankly, it seems rediculous to say that the only people who are allowed to care about the way their games look are hardcore collectors....

It certainly does suck for collectors, that they will have to deal with fakes, whether produced in China by a sweatshop, homemade labels by someone who is innocently replacing his ripped label, etc.  On the other hand, FOR CASUAL GAMERS, there is nothing wrong with this service.  As someone else mentioned earlier, we  could swap the crappy cart out with Paul, or get someone to make a custom label.  Do you think a casual gamer even knows who the hell Paul is?!?  Of course he or she doesn't know.  Honestly, it sucks for the collectors, but we need to look at the situation in a realistic manner.  It seems to me, prior to a couple years ago, videogame collecting wasn't even treated in a serious manner...oh, and I had been a collector since 1997, btw.  

Yeah like I said, let's try a fun activity.  I am in Taiwan right now, you are in the USA, Florida I think?  Let's both walk the streets and ask random casual gamers if they know who Paul is, and if they want to trade their carts to Paul for ones in better condition.  I know that here, no one has a clue who Paul is, and I know that the majority of the people living in Pennsylvania share the same sentiment.    Not a feasible idea, we are talking about the CASUAL gamer and the GENERAL public, not hardcore people visiting Nintendo Age.  Gotta keep it real...

The idea of getting custom labels, look above.  Most casual gamers aren't even going to know who BouncekDeLemos is. The funny thing is that I ran a really popular NES website many years back, and most people here don't even know who I am, hehehehe. 

Finally, you honestly think that everyone is going to want / be satisfied with an art label, that is different from the original?  Give me a break.  I know that if I would want to upgrade labels and have a label in better condition, I would want it to be the same as the released label.  Not some fanmade art, not the original art with the words "REPRO" branded across it in an ugly manner...I would want the original art.  Yes, it does suck for the collector.  YES, I AGREE, IT SUCKS FOR THE COLLECTORS OUT THERE.  On the other hand, the casual gamer does not care, and it is a bit unfair to say that THE CASUAL GAMER CAN'T DO WHAT HE OR SHE WANTS TO HIS OR HER CART.  If he or she wants to paint it pink, so be it, if he or she wants to make it look nicer , so be it.  It is not like he or she is trying to scam people.

It is a bit radical, but basically from my understanding, it is being argued/said here that non collectors are not allowed to have standards with how their games look in their collections.  Basically, only collectors are allowed to want cosmetically nice-looking items?!?!?!!  Such a load of bullshit.  The service is bad for collectors, but you guys really need to do some research, before you can claim that it is so bad for the casual gamer.  Look from an objective perspective, OBJECTIVE...

That's why you let people know who you are. Plus, my arguments aren't on the streets, we're in a forum, so everything note-worthy we're trying to explain is on here... this is the topic on hand, If I'm out on the street, I'll point them to this forum for reference. Simple. If the "Causual gamer" don't know that freaking copying shit is wrong, then they're idots.


So CASUAL gamers it's okay while COLLECTERS get the chocolate end of the stick? Now that's BULLSHIT. Instead of saying "Yeah, it's okay since only causal gamers need this", I'm trying to work out a compromise. A COMPROMISE. Guess what? I'm a causal gamer too and I care. I respect collectors too. Everyone can decide what they want on their stuff, but work out a compromise so i'd be fair and respectful for all parties instead of being selfish and just going "OH WELL COLLECTORS, TOO BAD, WE NEEDZ LABELZ SO IT'S GOOD"

If done right, who doesn't want art on a cart with their own unique print on them. And I'm not talking about fan-made stuff, and again, you don't need to have the word "repro" on it, (if people want that, that's fine) but you can use other art that you like and make it look professional, nobody has room to bitch. Plus the way I see it, it's not hurting one side, it's hurting all sides... for example:

I would laugh my ass off if a full fledged gamer (NON-COLLECTOR) just goes on ebay, buys a game THINKING it's the one he wants, spends his/her hard earned cash, goes to play their wonderful game and finds out it's not the one they want. They were scammed. Wait, this didn't hurt the collector... oh no, this just hurt the causal gamer.

See, this doesn't just hurt collectors here, bucko. It hurts EVERYBODY. And in more ways than one. It's best to avoid any potiential crap such as this... This is why I want to work out a compromise, cuz I DO see both sides here. But I don't hang on one side or the other. Damn.

And another thing, If people don't know who I am, just google the common word "bounce" then type a "k" after it. I'm the first dude to pop up. :B

I'm not liking the attitude you are expressing in your post, I honestly suggest you get out more and discover that the videogame market consists of more than just Nintendo Age or whatever other sites and forums exist on the web.

The fact of the matter is that outside of this (and maybe some other) forum(s), most gamers, under-the-radar collectors, etc WILL NOT have any idea who Paul is. With this knowledge in hand, a random gamer (probably the target for these new labels) is not going to be contacting Paul about swapping cartridges, one of the aforementioned remedies that you suggested one could use instead of buying a new label and slapping it on.

You state that when you are out on the street you will direct them to this site. I can understand directing collectors to this site and what not, but is it really a feasible idea to direct EVERY GAMER IN THE WORLD to this site, so that they can abide by this site's rules and ideas? That's right, it's not.

My brother, for instance, is a casual gamer and he hardly ever visits gaming web forums. He wouldn't have a clue about Paul and what not, he might just see the auction and say "Oh, that would be a great replacement for the ugly label I have. Only $4? Okay, I'll snag that." There are tons of people who share this sort of sentiment, and it seems to me that this is the target market for the guy's auctions.

Regarding people "freaking copying shit" being wrong and those who don't know this being idiots. Honestly, this is the stupidest line I've heard all day. You do realize that people copy paintings, right, without being thrown into this group of people without scruples. You do realize that at this very moment, some kid somewhere is tracing a picture of an Angry Bird from a book or something, copying it. I guess what he is doing is so wrong. I remember a few months back when someone posted paintings he did of the Castlevania artwork – he may have done it in his own style, and the works are not identical, but you do realize he copied it don't you? Copying shit is freaking wrong wrong wrong.

Copying "shit" is not wrong in and of itself. I agree that counterfeiting is wrong, but this guy doesn't even seem to be counterfeiting them either.

"made in imitation so as to be passed off fraudulently or deceptively as genuine"

The above definition from dictionary.com makes me question them even being counterfeit. It seems to me the guy is just doing a service for people who may not have the time/skills to be able to make their own replacement labels. Nothing about being idiots or not having scruples that I see.

Regarding your chocolate end of the stick bit. You first paragraph about working out a compromise is a fun read. In an ideal word, this could perhaps happen, but in an ideal world there wouldn't be scammers either so there would not be a need for this sort of compromise to begin with. The fact of the matter still stands, that a casual gamer might want a replacement label, but he or she might not visit Nintendo Age, might not visit forums, might not know who Paul is, etc. At this point, how are you going to try to reach a compromise with this casual gamer? Pass out pamphlets at a subway station to people who are passing by? Hang posters inside your Game Stop stores? How are you going to work out this compromise? As I mentioned earlier, I believe that the target market is different than the users of this forum, and if so, you are not talking to the right people when discussing your compromise here.

You also ask, "If done right, who doesn't want art on a cart with [his or her] own unique print on [it],..." Simple answer is that I don't. I am sure that there are many others who feel the same way as I do. With that said, I also might add that I would not feel inclined to replace the label on a cart with some damage, unless it was like some of the ones posted in this page...then I might consider it. Does this make me a big, bad scammer? No. I just like to take care of my stuff and don't want it looking like someone's cat or dog had a lot of fun with it. Would I disclose the new label to a potential buyer? Of course I would. You can check out the previous things I sold on here, and see how well I describe the condition...

Finally, I don't feel any need to google your name and see who you are. Maybe if we were going to meet up for beers or a date or something I might feel inclined in making sure that you are who you say you are, but just for internet discourse, I do not see the big purpose, unless you want to take it to a more intimate stage of discourse.

If I might add a pause to the internet debate, I bought some. I have some hideous looking carts in some of my CIBS.

Am I going to hell?

I would like to get one for a copy of River City Ransom I own. Bought online but no mention in auction that the game was completely labeless.

I also thought I would throw out there that I know some people have sold authentic Wisdom Tree labels from time to time on eBay, and not much argument and I don't think these guys are getting their auctions closed, etc, yet with the WT games, it would be 1000 times easier to create fake "variants" as we all can imagine...

You want me to get out more and discover the game market? I've been working and selling games for 10+ years and have been playing and understanding the values of both gamers and they games they represent for most of my God given life. I know the business ethics, don't try and say I don't know a thing or two about how it works. I may not know everything, but I have a pretty general idea.

 I'm keeping in mind everything pertaining to the matter at hand here, on THIS forum. I'm not branching off to other matters going "Well, the people copy paintings is okay and blah blah blah" Fan art or art in your own style is okay, BECAUSE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE REAL AND ORIGINAL. Not a 1:1 copy as everyone is discussing. I know there is a difference. Thanks.

This is like the agument "well if your friends jumped off a bridge, will you do it?" There needs to be no excuses why it's okay and find a solution... we should find ways to PREVENT bad stuff from happening, maybe not to the whole fuggin world, but if it's a start in these forums, it's a start none the less. Nothing is in extremes, there is no one side vs. the other... this effects everybody.

If you are so much worried about the world census, what can we all do about it? Let everyone have their copied lables with the potiential of everything bad we just mentioned? "OH WELL!!!" right? I'm just trying to look for for both gamers and collectors (or the combination of the two) How do we know that EVERY GAMER IN THE WORLD wants to fix their labels? You don't, I don't, we all don't.The opposing argument on this site is proof of it.

As idiotic, and sparatic as my beliefs sound, I still believe on what is right and what is wrong. If everybody is doing wrong, I can't just let it go. I can't defend the act and leave an excuse that it's okay since (Place example here). I would rather be part of the solution than the problem.


Only if you slap those Conkers on Madden... =\


Bottom line, if you guys what to fix your labels, fine. Just remember the potential hazards that may come to this. If there is people that complain or oppose you in their own beliefs, then there is something serious to concider. Otherwise, it shouldn't be a problem right?

How about this? This has gone into a touchy subject, and instead of debating on this thread (Apologies, to the OP), let's make this a little more constructive non-biased and open a debate thread with a poll. I don't want this to explode into a warzone (I'm biting my lip here as I say this, but you can't blame me for believing what I think is right), but not everyone is gonna see this eye-to-eye.

Okay Bounce, one more response before bed from me. I have been collecting games for about ten years, and have been playing games since I was old enough to hold a controller (playing since I was 3 years old, first memory was playing videogames). With that said, I think that these pieces of plastic and circuitry have dominated the majority of my life too, and thus, I have just as many credentials as you might have on the matter. In addition, I used to do a lot of research about games, working on a gaming website for about 6 years or so.

What I don't get is that you keep trying to bring everything at hand to THIS forum. The eBay seller isn't selling the labels on this forum, so it feels to me as though you are missing the larger picture here. It boils down to this:

a) If you look at the situation from the forum only, this guy is irrelevant as he is not a member here (that I am aware). Even more so, if we take your suggested proposals and put them into action, will they make a big enough difference to prevent the potential problems that you stated in your earlier posts? Perhaps that would prevent the people on this forum from buying the labels, but as mentioned earlier it WILL NOT stop the casual gamer, who probably doesn't even visit this form.
b) If we look at the label issue from the larger picture, we see that the labels are most likely being produced for the casual gamer, as opposed to for collectors or scammers. The auction is clear, etc. When we look at it in this manner, however, we still run into the problem that what Nintendo Age members do will not have a large enough impact on the casual gamers and their thoughts and ideas to really make a difference in the matter. In reality, what this guy is doing to begin with probably won't make that big of an impact in the long run, but that is beyond the point.

This has nothing to do with arguing about people jumping off bridges or whatever silliness you mentioned in your last post; this has to do with the reality of the matter. When the issue at hand is outside the scope of this forum, it is really impossible to separate the larger picture from this forum, without skewing and yielding inaccurate results and assumptions.

To sum it up in a succinct manner: These labels are clearly marked as copies, and the seller seems to be marketing them towards people who would want to replace their labels, i.e. casual gamers who want their games to look nicer without spending lots of coin. The majority of casual gamers probably don't wander into Nintendo Age, a site designed for collectors. With this said, however, Bounce feels that making a compromise between the smaller portion of casual gamers and the larger portion of collectors on Nintendo Age will somehow prevent the floodgates of N64 carts with reproduced labels floating into the used games market. Tracker feels that this will not even make a dent in the issue, and that one has to look at the larger scope, and suddenly Bounce makes ridiculous claims about it and tries to denounce the importance of this or the folly behind the rational thought that what happens and is agreed upon on Nintendo Age plays no role to anyone outside of Nintendo Age, i.e. most casual gamers. Okay, the end, I am going to shower and then head to bed.

Bounce, if you want to open a debate thread, go for it, PM me a link. I will gladly discuss this some more. With the poll though, once again Nintendo Age is more of a collector's paradise than one for casual gamers (screw variants anyone?), so we all know that the poll results will be one-sided, but if it makes you feel good, then that is your prerogative. Also not sure where you are getting this skewed sense of right and wrong, nothing wrong about fixing up your property to make it look nicer. Some do this with cars, some will glue their books, some will remove price stickers from the goods they buy, etc. This isn't a matter of right and wrong.

Rawr! Lol, man the things that piss the nerds off around here... Psst! Wanna buy some labels, little boy?

I wonder what would happen if the property is stolen then later is set out to get circulated? lol Okay, I'll shut up now... maybe I am thinking unrealistically, but you can't blame me. Sorry for all my claims being ridiculous and such, I maybe just too passionate about this hobby. I really think there should be a debate thread, poll or no poll. As I said, i don't wanna make it too biased even though it might be inevitable. I just think it shouldn't be on this tread crapping all over it.

LOL! Well, most of the "DRK? ER DERR"s came from me. You can lock this thread if you wanna... (again, apologies OP) I think I'm gonna make a debate thread in Collectors Corner.

Edit: Here, everyone voice your opinions and beliefs here:  http://nintendoage.com/forum/mess...

Here is a different scenario. How many people here buy a grail of some sort, we will use CBFD as an example, and dont actually try it out right away, or even at all? (Lets be honest here). A few months go by before you decide to fire it up, or worse, you sell it. Now you are stuck with some shitty Madden or WWF game with this shiny new sticker on it! That would likely piss you off, or the poor sucker you just sold it to.

Honestly, I KNOW for a fact I have a dozen or two carts I have never even fired up, for one reason or another.

yep me too, at least 30-40 carts since im busy alot with family. hell, i even bought Rock Band 3 brand new and i never tried it, yet.