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"You pay the paypal fees"

Feb 21, 2013 at 4:35:46 AM
guillavoie (125)
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(Der Graue Kasten) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: alexkidd401

Originally posted by: guillavoie

Originally posted by: alexkidd401

1: So what if you tell the person you don't want to pay fees. The seller obviously isn't obligated to continue the transaction if they aren't comfortable with it?

2: Also will members be penalize for paying for items via gift?

3: If the seller ask to cover the fees is that grounds for reprimanding?

1: That's the point of the new rule. You can't obligate the buyer to pay the fees, which means you'll have to pay it. Looking only for gifted payment is now considered a bad practice. It works one way, and the other.

2: Naturally not. He can pay through gift, but he won't have any help from NA mods if the transaction goes bad, the seller won't help, and he can't open a dispute in paypal.

3: See 1.


I don't think you understand what I am saying. There is too much grey area with this new rule. Don't worry about it though. It's relatively easy to adjust to.

Thanks!

Sorry to interupt your genius mind.

-------------------------


 



Edited: 02/21/2013 at 04:51 AM by guillavoie

Feb 21, 2013 at 6:09:38 AM
cyan_phoenix (15)

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I always use paypal here and I don't think i've run into people asking me to cover paypal fees when doing business here, so i'm surprised that this (and 'gifting' ) is so prevalent.

Good to see the NA rules have been updated.

-------------------------
 


Edited: 02/21/2013 at 06:10 AM by cyan_phoenix

Feb 21, 2013 at 8:36:46 AM
captmorgandrinker (572)
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Originally posted by: alexkidd401

I have a question. So what if you tell the person you don't want to pay fees. The seller obviously isn't obligated to continue the transaction if they aren't comfortable with it? Also will members be penalize for paying for items via gift? What are the rules specific rules here. If the seller ask to cover the fees is that grounds for reprimanding? I'm not entirely clear on how far this goes.

Under the new rule, there's no asking for paypal fees, PERIOD.   If the seller's not comfortable paying the fees themselves for the service Paypal provides, then they really shouldn't be selling things online in the first place (see item 2 in the new rule).

As far as the other stuff, if you have somebody trying to pull shit via PM (like demanding you add fees/pay via gift) then let one of us mods know.




Feb 21, 2013 at 8:56:07 AM
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B.A. (268)
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There really is no grey area. Under the new rule the seller is obligated to pay the paypal fees. Are they allowed to send you a pm saying something like "gift is appreciated"? Sure, but a buyer is never obligated to send gift, and the seller can't back out of a sale if gift payment or additional fees are not sent.

Gift payments are not banned on NA. Just now they cannot be required, and if you do decide to pay via gift you are doing so at your own risk and on your own.

Feb 21, 2013 at 2:48:50 PM
alexkidd401 (260)
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Originally posted by: guillavoie

Thanks!

Sorry to interupt your genius mind.

No need for the sarcasm. My question was if you are negotiating a deal not if a transaction was pending. You clearly got it confused. I don't know why you took it the wrong way but okay. I would assume a person would discuss method of payment before accepting a transaction. If you can't come to an agreement on how an item is to be paid for negotiations would clearly cease.

Originally posted by: captmorgandrinker

As far as the other stuff, if you have somebody trying to pull shit via PM (like demanding you add fees/pay via gift) then let one of us mods know.
 

That's the grey area I am referring to. I had 2 people last night offer to pay fees / pay gift to get the price cheaper. Might I add one of those people were a mod. So it's okay for them to offer it, if it's in there favor but I can't ask for it?

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Edited: 02/21/2013 at 02:50 PM by alexkidd401

Feb 21, 2013 at 2:58:58 PM
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B.A. (268)
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You can ask for whatever you want, but you can't require it. You can't make a FS listing along the lines of "$20 gifted only, or you pay the fees". Now if someone wants to send you an offer for less then your asking amount, or you want to privately accept less than your stated asking price with additional terms, that is between you and the buyer.


Edit for clarification: This is for B/S/T threads with an asking price.  Gift or additional fees cannot be listed in addition to the asking price.  Furthermore, that original asking price must be honored if paypal payment is accepted. For example if the item is listed for $20, the seller cannot pm the buyer and say "sold, but you need to gift me $20 or pay the fees".  

Now if a buyer offers $15 gifted, or offers $15 and the seller responds with "only if you gift it"  that's up to you.  It just can't be part of the original listed asking price.


Edited: 02/21/2013 at 03:16 PM by B.A.

Feb 21, 2013 at 3:34:56 PM
DakotaKid (0)
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Originally posted by: alexkidd401

Originally posted by: DakotaKid

I'm new to this forum and joined to talk about the hobby, but also in hopes of buying games for a little under ebay prices since sellers won't have to pay the ebay fees which can add up. What I've seen is some sellers here expect to get ebay prices, not pay ebay fees, and not even pay Paypal fees.

Someone here had a game listed that they were asking $30 for plus shipping plus paypal fees. I messaged them asking for their best price. I was going to ask them to pay the Paypal fees themselves (as a seller should) so that with shipping it would only cost me around $33. Instead, the seller updated their post to change the price to $35 and said it would cost me $40 with shipping plus I'd have to pay the Paypal fee (or gift it which I won't do) so that would have brought the total to $41.50. I said nevermind and just bought it BIN on ebay for $35 with free shipping...

My point is that the person who sold it to me on ebay probably only netted $25 after shipping, ebay fees, and paypal fees. I think that sellers here shouldn't expect to net the entire $35 (or more) and have no expenses. The price the seller posts should be the total price with no additional fees except shipping if it says that shipping isn't included. I would be in favor of making a rule that paypal gifting or charging buyers an additional fee is not allowed.

You just sound cheap to me. After fees you would of still saved $0.75 if he didn't budge on the price. The seller already had a significantly cheaper price and you wanted a discount on top of that? ok buddy

Back to the topic though, I don't really see the issue but if it bothers people I guess it needs to be done. Don't be surpised if you see more inflated shipping prices though.

If you didn't realize it, I was referring to you in the story. I don't think it's cheap for a buyer to expect to pay the price listed plus the actual shipping cost. I think it's cheap for a seller to expect to get the listed price plus a sudden $5 price increase plus the actual shipping cost plus a couple dollars more plus the paypal fees. I saved $6.50 by buying it on ebay.

I, for one, am glad this rule is now in effect. I think it'll make this forum more buyer-friendly and will probably make it seem more trustworthy for new members to buy here without feeling like they either need to risk their money or pay an extra fee. Following Paypal's TOS is also important.

Feb 21, 2013 at 3:52:06 PM
alexkidd401 (260)
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Originally posted by: DakotaKid

If you didn't realize it, I was referring to you in the story. I don't think it's cheap for a buyer to expect to pay the price listed plus the actual shipping cost. I think it's cheap for a seller to expect to get the listed price plus a sudden $5 price increase plus the actual shipping cost plus a couple dollars more plus the paypal fees. I saved $6.50 by buying it on ebay.

I, for one, am glad this rule is now in effect. I think it'll make this forum more buyer-friendly and will probably make it seem more trustworthy for new members to buy here without feeling like they either need to risk their money or pay an extra fee. Following Paypal's TOS is also important.


It was obvious you were talking about me. The reason why I gave you such a high price after all your BS was because I didn't want to sell it to you. I had Smash Bros listed at $30 and it regularly sells for $40 and you still wanted me to cut a deal on top of that? It's not happening. If you had an issue paying the fees I'm pretty sure we could of worked something out but you never stated that once during your PMs, so how am I suppose to know? The funny thing is even if you paid these fees from my initial sales price that you are complaing about you still would of saved money.


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Edited: 02/21/2013 at 04:23 PM by alexkidd401

Feb 21, 2013 at 3:55:40 PM
NewUser123456789 (226)

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Hey guys, pro tip,

NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO READ YOUR DRAMA.

WHY NOT TAKE THIS TO A PM?

Haven't we had enough drama lately?

Feb 21, 2013 at 3:58:18 PM
alexkidd401 (260)
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Originally posted by: Paul

Hey guys, pro tip,

NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO READ YOUR DRAMA.

WHY NOT TAKE THIS TO A PM?

Haven't we had enough drama lately?

I agree. I didn't call him out, I just responded.

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Edited: 02/21/2013 at 04:00 PM by alexkidd401

Feb 21, 2013 at 4:25:08 PM
Mog (140)
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Originally posted by: alexkidd401

 So it's okay for them to offer it, if it's in there favor but I can't ask for it?

Yes, that is what the rule says

Originally posted by the new PayPal rules

1. In your B/S/T thread, you cannot ask for additional money or percentage of payment to cover PayPal fees

....If you and the buyer/seller come to different terms, privately, that's fine, but that's at your own risk.....

Feb 21, 2013 at 4:46:33 PM
alexkidd401 (260)
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(Maui Mallard) < Lolo Lord >
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Originally posted by: Mog

Originally posted by: alexkidd401

 So it's okay for them to offer it, if it's in there favor but I can't ask for it?

Yes, that is what the rule says

Originally posted by the new PayPal rules

1. In your B/S/T thread, you cannot ask for additional money or percentage of payment to cover PayPal fees

....If you and the buyer/seller come to different terms, privately, that's fine, but that's at your own risk.....



I mean not even privately?

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Feb 21, 2013 at 5:18:48 PM
dballin (22)
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(Dave Balls) < Meka Chicken >
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read BA's post at the top of this page

Feb 21, 2013 at 8:14:42 PM
dra600n (300)
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Originally posted by: alexkidd401

Originally posted by: Mog

Originally posted by: alexkidd401

 So it's okay for them to offer it, if it's in there favor but I can't ask for it?

Yes, that is what the rule says

Originally posted by the new PayPal rules

1. In your B/S/T thread, you cannot ask for additional money or percentage of payment to cover PayPal fees

....If you and the buyer/seller come to different terms, privately, that's fine, but that's at your own risk.....



I mean not even privately?

I think what they're saying is that in your B/S/T thread, you can't say "All prices are gifted prices, otherwise add 3% - 4%".
So, say you had Final Fantasy 3 for $25, someone hits you up for it for your asking price, and you know shipping is going to cost $3.80, you'd tell'm $28.80 and wouldn't be able to say "pay the fees". Now, you could say, in PM, that you'd do it shipped for $26 if they gifted you, otherwise they'd have to pay the $28.80.

Another example would be this:
I got a PM earlier this morning (might have been last night) for a Shining Force CD CIB. The seller told me to make an offer, and I did, he said "how about this" (a few dollars more). I accepted his counter offer for the price (pending pictures, which I got and went through with), but I could have said "hey man, if I gift it, would you take $X off?". He didn't require it, or require me to cover the paypal fees, but he can ask so long as it doesn't reflect the actual price of the initial sale. Once the dollar amount was final with shipping costs, neither of us could have changed the final total.

That's where this all comes into play - people generally expect a few $$ for shipping, and then get surprised with additional "hidden" charges.

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Feb 21, 2013 at 10:45:55 PM
rhetoric614 (51)
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Originally posted by: Paul

Hey guys, pro tip,

NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO READ YOUR DRAMA.

WHY NOT TAKE THIS TO A PM?

Haven't we had enough drama lately?


Scroll down then



Now, since I complain so much I would like to speak on this rule change:  GREAT JOB MODS!  Awesome rule.  Awesome response to user feedback.  Seriously.

Feb 21, 2013 at 11:36:36 PM
TWarwick07 (85)
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This is the way it should be, thanks to the mods for fixing this loophole in the sellers forum.


Feb 22, 2013 at 7:42:21 AM
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jonebone (554)
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Gifts are not the devil, it's just against the Paypal TOS to force a buyer to pay an extra 3% for their buying protection. I still pay my friends via gift if they prefer and if someone wants to gift me I'll accept it. This policy was designed to target people who only operate via gift, or who try to extort paypal fees after a negotiated sales price (which is HOS worthy IMO, but that's a separate discussion).

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Feb 22, 2013 at 8:09:09 AM
NewUser123456789 (226)

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Originally posted by: rhetoric614

Originally posted by: Paul

Hey guys, pro tip,

NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO READ YOUR DRAMA.

WHY NOT TAKE THIS TO A PM?

Haven't we had enough drama lately?


Scroll down then



Now, since I complain so much I would like to speak on this rule change:  GREAT JOB MODS!  Awesome rule.  Awesome response to user feedback.  Seriously.

Did I wake up in an alternate reality Chris? 


Feb 22, 2013 at 11:18:30 AM
jjrepro (178)

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If only we could stop sellers from marking every single one of their items as "for offer". I'd actually start buying more here if that was implemented

Feb 22, 2013 at 11:22:13 AM
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VGD (465)
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Originally posted by: jjrepro

If only we could stop sellers from marking every single one of their items as "for offer". I'd actually start buying more here if that was implemented


That wont happen.  Its their perogative and it isnt hurting anything.



Feb 22, 2013 at 11:34:10 AM
jjrepro (178)

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Its hurting their sales, I won't make offers, but thats my perogative

Feb 22, 2013 at 11:39:28 AM
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B.A. (268)
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Lots of people put prices in their threads and you have managed 0 transactions with any of them in the 5 months you have been a member. It probably isn't hurting their sales all that much.

Feb 22, 2013 at 11:56:21 AM
dra600n (300)
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Originally posted by: jjrepro

Its hurting their sales, I won't make offers, but thats my perogative

A lot of people put FO on their items because they either just want a fair offer that makes both people happy, or are looking for trades. I know that's why I do it. I personally don't care if my items sit there for a day, month, or year, as I'm sure many people don't really care.

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Feb 22, 2013 at 12:02:49 PM
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VGD (465)
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Originally posted by: jjrepro

Its hurting their sales

No its not..  Im sure the other thousands of users with actual transactions do make offers on stuff they want.

This is a paypal gift  thread. Make your own thread if you want to complain about for offer threads that you dont offer on anyways.


EDIT--Reiterating what BA said kinda.


Edited: 02/22/2013 at 12:04 PM by VGD

Feb 22, 2013 at 3:22:56 PM
eemelijaakko (0)
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Not related to NA or even gaming in general but I got once "srewed up" by eBay seller. He claimed that it was my (=buyers) responsibility to pay the fees to paypal for the transaction. I was new to eBay-thing and asked around about it. Everyone thought that the seller was wrong.

However I did not cancel the transaction or anything, payed the extra fees and got the product that was suprisingly even better condition than it was described and the price was also on the low side.

There's my worthless two cents for this discussion.


Edited: 02/22/2013 at 03:24 PM by eemelijaakko