Gimmie you guy's honest opinion on the matter. It doesn't matter if you're a collector or gamer more than the other, hell, you can be both, just post what you think.... Is it right, is it wrong, who does it hurt, etc.? What are the good things about it, what are the bad?

Please no flaming or anything of the sort.

As long as they're labelled clearly that it's a reprint IMO it's fine. As much as I hate having a game with a messed-up label, I'd rather pay more and know I'm getting the genuine thing than save money and have a reprinted label. That's the collector side of me speaking. The gamer side of me doesn't care as long as the game works.

I just copied this from the other thread..

Here is a different scenario. How many people here buy a grail of some sort, we will use CBFD as an example, and dont actually try it out right away, or even at all? (Lets be honest here). A few months go by before you decide to fire it up, or worse, you sell it. Now you are stuck with some shitty Madden or WWF game with this shiny new sticker on it! That would likely piss you off, or the poor sucker you just sold it to.

Honestly, I KNOW for a fact I have a dozen or two carts I have never even fired up, for one reason or another.
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I honestly agree with the two top posts. I see myself as both gamer and collector on this. Any regular non-collectors are welcome to post here. I'll refrain from stating what I think is right or wrong, and just voice my opinion.

Totally agree.  I propably have *eek* a 1000 or so from all the pre NES obscure stuff I have where I haven't got around to cleaning or testing them.  Swapped boards or fake labels would not help that situation in the future, especially for game stores or dealers like sosafan who can't possibly test everything.  It's a plague that comes with value I guess.  Mo money, mo problems...

Changed poll to "agree" and "disagree" instead of "yes" and "no" to avoid confusion.

I'm OK with it if it has different artwork and is clearly labelled a reprint. Even then if I were to sell it, I'd probably remove the custom label and sell it labelless to keep someone from trying to sell it off as some rare variant.

I'm cool with custom making something. I have a Mario 1, 2, and 3 that are beat to hell but want to take out the boards, put them in retrozone shells and make custom labels. It would be cool. BUT, if you are ever going to make something look like the original that is no good by me. Even if you know its not real that doesn't mean the person who it ends up with knows that. There is no "restoration" in gaming, it's just more damage.

I voted for this. We are talking about replacement labels, right? I think replacement labels and alternate labels are two different things. I need a new rear view mirror and hood for my car so I need to get a replacement with the word repro on it?

Yes if you were collecting or restoring a vintage car, you bet your gonna be telling a potential buyer its not the original hood or your gonna get sued.

See if you're saying labels like these are wrong, then you have to agree other forms of counterfeiting( homebrews, repros, etc etc ) are wrong also. Those aren't your sprites or your 8 bit music. You get the picture? If people are as strong a collector as they claim to be then I think they can tell if something is a "counterfeit". honestly i think panties are in a bunch for all the wrong reasons.

Of course I would. But thats If I were ever to sell it. What If I never plan to sell it? Would it still be wrong.

I think there is two sides to this. I bought some replacement labels for some nasty looking carts I have sleeping in boxes. I don't plan on selling or trading them so no hard no foul. I see the harm in these replacement labels as much as the next guy. If somebody made sweet alternade labels before I bought the replacements, I would of been on that.

But theres always "that guy". That guy that probably already bought some rare labels and slapped them on sports games. But like stated before, a lot of people don't even test their games so the question needs to be askedis the hobby already ruined than to ask if replacement labels will.

Slippery slope.

You have a talent for making beautiful art work, your contributions to the repro label thread are priceless. Unless the label is obviously different and so far from the original, it is going to cause a world of upset some collector.

I think the best example of a blatently obvious replacement label is the Mr Gimmick label you made. This is acceptable in my opinion, I used it for my repro. It looks nothing like an original, not even close.

This is too much like an original and could be a potential nightmare for someone. No it is not a label but used as an example for this topic, yes it does say repro on it somewhere, but I don't agree with it. It looks too much like the real thing.

I dare you to head over to the brewery and tell the guys making new games that thier Homebrew is counterfitting and wrong.

What about the new collectors to our hobby, should we not try and protect them from possibly buying into something they are not experienced with. How about the lucky few who have girlfriends/boyfriends that are not in the know of things accidently buy something they thought was real, only to dissapoint thier significant other when it arrives.

Yes I agree repros are a grey area, and thats why I only agree with repros of unreleased, translated or hacked games. I do not agree with repros of comercially released items.

Thanks man. That thread you made has to be one of my all time faves. After all the posts, many repro-ers used my art on their sites, which is totally aweosme!

I have also made a gimmick label with a teal blue cover, suggested from another member. I made it with the "repro" mark on it, just in case and it seemed okay as well IMO :

For personal use I say do whatever your heart desires and whatever your skill permits.

If you plan on selling or releasing custom stuff out into the wild, Id say mark it somehow, just to keep us all honest and not confuse/disappoint any potential future buyers.

All the reasons above is why I'm scared to get into collecting hardcore. Spending top dollar with all these counterfeits on the rise scares me. That and the fact of every other tangible collectibles comics,coins trading cards etc. Besides the precious metals in coins the value of all those things are based on intrinsic value which over the years has crased and burned.

Its hard enough buying Pokemon games and not get bootlegs. I consider myself a collector in the sense i don't sell my games but not where i buy sealed games or games just to store on a shelf. But yeah for the collectors its a gamble. Many of them are not only in it for the collecting aspect but the monetary gain. Which with games its a very changing market. Pretty much like comics which i know collectors of. A comic now can be valued by all the main graders at say $200 or whatever but the market is so dead for comics it will take you a year to find a buyer offering you 25% of that appraised value.

This topic has to do with the value of games specially when you're talking about a reproduction label that is done so well that the eye can't even spot it. You could be sitting on a fake and telling you're self its real till the day you die. That's how good counterfeits are today.

I see mo problem in replacing a label with the same artwork with the identifiers removed, example the nintendo seal and ratings were removed that way those who want the art the same can have it but it is easily noticed to be different.

Here's my take. Open a NES cart. Look what peeps will shell out huge amounts of money for.

1)A board that holds less data than a wristwatch.
2)A plastic shell.
3)A sticker.

I think the hobby (which I can remember when the actual playing was the hobby) needs certain reality checks from time to time. If this is what must be done...so be it. I understand the history interest but they are still only 27 years old and were mass produced. They are games for cryin out loud.

I thought that thread had run it's course... apparently not. Of course I'm not a fan of 1:1 reprinted labels, but labels with a clear marking as "Repro" are fine.

Even putting reproduction on the label is not enough, they should never have the Nintendo Seal either.

There was (not sure if they are still being made) a repro of SE that said reproduction on the bottom right corner of the label. I have seen that copy on ebay with that part of the label torn off being sold with "slight label damage".

That "I never plan on selling" argument is bunk. A person might not have any intention of selling at the time, but people's lives and interests change over time, and minds get changed all the time. You very well might say it's a reproduction when you sell, but once it's passed hands who knows what the next guy will do.

Reproductions happen in any collecting scene. Some "reproductions" are pretty close duplicates of the original. It does trip people up all the time, but it happens. It also does a few things for the value: the reproduction goes down in value where as the real thing maintains value.

Cars for example: There were less than 100 '69 Yenko 427 Camaros made and they have sold for as much as $2.2m at auction, but there are plenty of reproductions out there. A much more common scenario is the SS badge or Z28 badge on a car. Anyone who is buying them knows what to look for and will always research to know if it's real or not.

You can't stop it, just protect yourself by learning the differences and what to look for in comparison to real vs. reproduction. You can't protect everyone, it's impossible.

Antiques Roadshow brings bad news to people all the time. "You bought a fake" or "it has been restored." It just happens.

Does any of this make it right or wrong? Nope, I don't think so. Personally I would never buy a reproduction when I could get the real thing. That being said, I know what to look for, and I research before any large purchase.

I also would never knowingly try to pass off a reproduction/restoration as original. That's just plain bad, dirty and dishonest.

We aren't talking about high end cars here. The problem is people making exact reproductions of $50-$100 games that are primarily bought online. How much research is a person reasonably expected to do in a situation like that.

That is why there is no reason for a person who has good intentions to make an exact reproduction.

Obviously there is a large price gap between cars and video games. The comparison is not of price, but of representation.

It's 100% a lie to sell something as real when it's not. That is on the seller. No questions. I'm not saying that the buyer then loses out because "oh, should have known better" but the buyer should take action. If they get something and just assume it's real, that is their own fault. If it's found to be a fake then they can take action to right the wrong. Fraud, paypal claim, whatever.

In the arcade scene there are several guys who do reproduction art. They are damned near exact replicas because they use the original screens. They sell them as reproduction, not NOS. The difference? They BOUGHT the rights to sell them from the original manufacturer. They actually went out and bought the rights from Atari or Midway, or whoever.

Why can't the same be done for video games? Restoration is a good thing. If the reproduction is 99.9% exact but also 100% licensed from the original manufacturer, what about that? Damaged carts being brought back from the dead. An honest person has a torn label, they want to make it look like new again, why shouldn't they be able to? If they sell it as restored they did their part, if they sell it as original they are breaking the law.

If anyone with "good intentions" is making a reproduction without going through the proper channels it doesn't matter what they do, they are still breaking the law.

Bang on the money, Gary.
An SE with a fake label accomplishes 2 things:
1) Deceives a potential buyer
2) Devalues all existing true SE's until its proven fake

Guys who have sunk the money into the "holy grails" of the sheer collecting aspect of this hobby would be sorely miffed (to put it lightly) if someone showed up with a bunch of really real looking fakes and devalued their games.

On the flip side I like repro labels for repro's, unreleased NTSC games, translations from JAP, and that sort of thing. But if your Dragon Warrior 4 has a destroyed label and you replace it with the intention of increasing its value an OEM product from Nintendo to be resold, then it's a horrible thing to be doing. At least use soemthing that is clearly marked as a fake if it looks like the original, or use completely different artwork.

Thats my $0.02