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Please Kids, Don't Try this at Home or how Not to fix a broken AVS power jack

Nov 21, 2016 at 11:12:48 PM
Great Hierophant (1)
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(Great Hierophant) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Unfortunately, there are some AVS consoles with an unsupported mini-USB power/communications port.  John Riggs, a well-known video game collector from the Washington area (he is on MetalJesusRocks' channel often), decided to try to fix a power port that had broken off his friend's AVS.  This was the result :





There are so many obvious things wrong from this video, it really makes me weep.  First, if you are going to work on a board with hot soldering iron, take it out of its housing before you go near the board with a soldering iron!  Second, clean surface mount contacts of old solder before applying new solder.  Third, do not try to solder if someone had poured hot glue over the port, clean the glue off first.  Fourth, always use good flux on surface mount components.  Fifth, RetroUSB will fix broken power ports or replace the board, send it back to get it replaced.  

The only way this is going to get fixed now is if someone cut off a USB cable and wired it directly onto the PCB.  The end result is going to look really unsightly.  Good job helping your friend out (if it is his friend).  

Nov 21, 2016 at 11:41:34 PM
bootload (8)

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After this was identified, were the remaining stock fixed?

Nov 21, 2016 at 11:49:53 PM
CMR (4)
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< El Ripper >
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Originally posted by: bootload

After this was identified, were the remaining stock fixed?

The next run of units will have an improved port.  The current run has had reinforcing screws added.


edit: @video, he didn't even know what the serial port was for.  Fail.


Edited: 11/21/2016 at 11:52 PM by CMR

Nov 22, 2016 at 12:09:19 AM
CZroe (31)
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I commented right after he uploaded to explain why it was USB, what the Famicom EXT port actually was, what was going on with the situation and why his friend might not have heard anything, etc. I also asked why he gave up so easily when he could have wired a USB cable or even just 5v to get it half-working.

What was worse was the recent video where he gave up on a "broken" copy of The Immortal even though it was exactly as functional as every other copy! I told him about the Game Genie cheats that he could patch into a ROM to do a repro in a follow up video where he could make the awesome claim of having what is very likely the ONLY fixed copy of The Immortal in the world, and he just poo-poo'd the idea (told me to take a crack at it). He has subscribers and making repros is his expertise, so I can't see why he would decline.





Edited: 11/22/2016 at 12:10 AM by CZroe

Nov 22, 2016 at 1:11:23 AM
Great Hierophant (1)
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I'm not sure what he was trying to prove, the best he could do was to get random screens from the game after the Game Genie. It kind of follows the demo, but not in the proper order (there is a fight between the two scenes shown). I think that it is more likely that one of the ROM chips is damaged.

Nov 22, 2016 at 1:50:41 AM
bunnyboy (81)
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Sixth, they never contacted the support email or fb. Riggs used an ancient personal account that I don't use anymore, and Shawn's host was rejecting my replies. He was moving so I couldn't just blindly send him a new one. That amazing support guy (who is not me!) would have handled it in minutes. Ok probably hours because for some reason he needs to sleep.

Nov 22, 2016 at 6:44:10 AM
Ichinisan (29)
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant

I'm not sure what he was trying to prove, the best he could do was to get random screens from the game after the Game Genie. It kind of follows the demo, but not in the proper order (there is a fight between the two scenes shown). I think that it is more likely that one of the ROM chips is damaged.

The game is 100% identical to every copy ever sold. It uses a color that it should not use. Basically a black that is "blacker than black" -- and then it compounds the problem with emphasis bits that darken the whole screen. Nintendo's developer guidelines said not to use that particular color for black. Some TVs will interpret that as a signal to return the scanning beam to the start position and everything gets distorted. It requires an older CRT that is more tolerant of malformed signals. Even many CRTs won't display it correctly.
 


Edited: 11/22/2016 at 07:47 AM by Ichinisan

Nov 22, 2016 at 7:11:25 AM
Mega Tank (186)
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Sixth, they never contacted the support email or fb. Riggs used an ancient personal account that I don't use anymore, and Shawn's host was rejecting my replies. He was moving so I couldn't just blindly send him a new one. That amazing support guy (who is not me!) would have handled it in minutes. Ok probably hours because for some reason he needs to sleep.



All I know is I contacted your support when the PRGE trip was about to happen and I knew there was a great possibility for a delay in response time, which I would have been fine with. I was pleasantly surprised in the response time and my issue was handled quickly and was solved. Thank you!  

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Nov 22, 2016 at 7:38:57 AM
SoleGooseProductions (129)
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Sixth, they never contacted the support email or fb. Riggs used an ancient personal account that I don't use anymore, and Shawn's host was rejecting my replies. He was moving so I couldn't just blindly send him a new one. That amazing support guy (who is not me!) would have handled it in minutes. Ok probably hours because for some reason he needs to sleep.

So you're letting him sleep again these days?

The USB port issue has been an example of the perfect way that a small manufacturer can solve an existing problem. Timely and not to mention sheer overkill since so few of the units actually had a real issue. Right on par with Nintendo's early Famicom recall. Videos like this are saddening since it just spreads false information when someone has taken all of the steps they can to make something right.


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Nov 22, 2016 at 7:44:40 AM
CZroe (31)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant

I'm not sure what he was trying to prove, the best he could do was to get random screens from the game after the Game Genie. It kind of follows the demo, but not in the proper order (there is a fight between the two scenes shown). I think that it is more likely that one of the ROM chips is damaged.
The chips aren't damaged at all. The squiggly lines are because the developer used a non-standard value for black and his TV can't handle the signal (interprets it as a sync pulse). His TV is blanking like it would for static and it would do the same with any copy of this game. Older TVs seem to tolerate it, which is why no one noticed back in the day. Even later CRTs can't tolerate it, so it's unplayable on most TVs today.





Because he said he intended to make a TLROM repro tutorial video with the original board, I suggested that he make the same game with the NESDEV Game Genie patches to fix it (there are utilities to easily apply the patches). If he did it then his might very well be the only fully working copy in existence! He responded on Twitter by telling me to take a crack at it instead. Missed opportunity! What better game to demonstrate to his subscriber base with a TLROM repro?! He'd be killing two birds with one stone if he did that but his video remains up with no follow-up and people continue throwing these games out (I've received at least two copies that people thought were broken).


Edited: 12/23/2016 at 09:14 PM by CZroe

Nov 22, 2016 at 8:16:11 AM
Great Hierophant (1)
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I looked at the video again carefully, and I now believe that the blacker-than-black color is responsible for all the issues with the TV and the chips are undamaged.

Nov 22, 2016 at 8:26:14 AM
NickTLG (48)
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It's neat that he's showing people how to not be afraid to pop open games and consoles to fix them, but he really needs to be more open-minded to criticism. Would it be the end of the world to do a few update videos using this info? He seems like a nice guy, so maybe he'll reconsider.

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Edited: 11/22/2016 at 08:26 AM by NickTLG

Nov 22, 2016 at 9:38:05 AM
CZroe (31)
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Originally posted by: cirellio

It's neat that he's showing people how to not be afraid to pop open games and consoles to fix them, but he really needs to be more open-minded to criticism. Would it be the end of the world to do a few update videos using this info? He seems like a nice guy, so maybe he'll reconsider.
He seems to respond to criticism well: see his comments in the AVS video where he thanks everyone for their input/suggestions and acknowledges Brian's response. His message to me was not mean-spirited. I'm the one who suggested that I was already planning on doing that. He just didn't seem to realize that it would be so much better if he did it. It would address the misinformation in his previous video and bring closure, it would provide a unique resolution that seemingly hasn't been done before, it would serve as the TLROM repro tutorial video he already said he wanted to make, and it would "fix" the game for the person that sent it in. If I did it then it would just be a video for me to link in reply to others with this problem and it would likely never get noticed. It's obvious that my previous videos on the subject didn't!





Edited: 11/22/2016 at 09:42 AM by CZroe

Nov 22, 2016 at 9:42:16 AM
NickTLG (48)
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Originally posted by: CZroe
 
Originally posted by: cirellio

It's neat that he's showing people how to not be afraid to pop open games and consoles to fix them, but he really needs to be more open-minded to criticism. Would it be the end of the world to do a few update videos using this info? He seems like a nice guy, so maybe he'll reconsider.
He seems to respond to criticism well: see his comments in the AVS video where he thanks everyone for their input/suggestions and acknowledges Brian's response. His message to me was not mean-spirited. I'm the one who suggested that I was already planning on doing that. He just didn't seem to realize that it would be so much better if he did it. It would address the misinformation in his previous video and bring closure, it would provide a unique resolution that seemingly hasn't been done before, it would serve as the TLROM repro tutorial video he already said he wanted to make, and it would "fix" the game for the person that sent it in. If I did it then it would just be a video for me to link in reply to others with this problem and it would likely never get noticed.

Thanks for the clarification. Good to know. I don't watch his videos much so was just going off of what was said here.
 

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Nov 22, 2016 at 12:15:34 PM
Mog (140)
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Originally posted by: Mega Tank

Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Sixth, they never contacted the support email or fb. Riggs used an ancient personal account that I don't use anymore, and Shawn's host was rejecting my replies. He was moving so I couldn't just blindly send him a new one. That amazing support guy (who is not me!) would have handled it in minutes. Ok probably hours because for some reason he needs to sleep.

All I know is I contacted your support when the PRGE trip was about to happen and I knew there was a great possibility for a delay in response time, which I would have been fine with. I was pleasantly surprised in the response time and my issue was handled quickly and was solved. Thank you!  


Not only did I get a lighting fast response, the support guy did my dishes after dinner AND took out the trash! What a swell guy! 

Dec 9, 2016 at 7:30:37 PM
scruffychicken (59)
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(Matt McIlvenna) < Meka Chicken >
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My usb port just broke on mine, but being someone who has never soldered before, I'm not taking a chance on my AVS, my baby. Just emailed support  

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Dec 9, 2016 at 8:31:18 PM
AaronE (52)
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^ the wonderful and very humble support guy will get you taken care of scruffychicken

Also this Riggs video had me yelling at the screen. Hey solder can't stick to this (because the pads are gone off the FR4) let me see if super glue is somehow conductive...
The more of him I watch the less I realize he knows.

Dec 9, 2016 at 10:16:32 PM
scruffychicken (59)
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(Matt McIlvenna) < Meka Chicken >
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Good to hear. Hopefully they will respond soon. I still have several NES systems laying around, but I feel lost not being able to play on the AVS lol

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Dec 10, 2016 at 10:58:12 AM
scruffychicken (59)
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Update: they got back to me last night and gave me a shipping label to mail it in. Great customer service  

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Dec 10, 2016 at 9:13:00 PM
RGT_85 (0)
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Hey guys, I'm Shawn, the one who sent the AVS to Riggs. Everything was taken care of, for some reason my email wasn't cooperating with Brian's! But all is well!

Dec 20, 2016 at 2:42:47 AM
scruffychicken (59)
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(Matt McIlvenna) < Meka Chicken >
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Has anyone else sent in an AVS for repair?Just wondering how long to expect to wait for my system to come back. They received it on the 14th. Hoping I'll get it back before Christmas Eve so I can show some family members what NES in HD is like.

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Dec 23, 2016 at 9:20:49 PM
CZroe (31)
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Originally posted by: RetroGamingTube85

Hey guys, I'm Shawn, the one who sent the AVS to Riggs. Everything was taken care of, for some reason my email wasn't cooperating with Brian's! But all is well!
Awesome. Glad you were taken care of!

Maybe now you can convince John to make that video about The Immortal.   It'd be super-easy for him and would be a great follow-up. It would also be perfect for the TLROM repro video he wanted to do, since it involves the exact same steps (burn patched ROM; rewrite board for EPROM). I was only considering doing it because I didn't know a better opportunity would come up for him to do it! It would also reach a lot more people if he did it.


Edited: 12/23/2016 at 09:21 PM by CZroe

Dec 24, 2016 at 1:19:12 AM
scruffychicken (59)
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(Matt McIlvenna) < Meka Chicken >
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After I posted the other day wondering how long it takes to get a repair back, Retrousbsupport emailed me and let me know that I was supposed to email them when I shipped it out. Either I didn't read it thoroughly or they forgot to mention that lol. To make up for my lost time waiting, they just decided to send me out a brand new system instead, in the packaging and everything. Only took one day to ship too. I couldn't be happier with their customer service. A+++  

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Jan 18, 2017 at 5:08:59 PM
darkchylde28 (10)
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As a followup to the original post in this thread, there's now a video online showing Brad Tratzinski fixing the system in question. Great fix, really well done and a pleasure to watch!




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Jan 27, 2017 at 3:17:52 PM
johnblueriggs (27)
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And I'm the John Riggs with the soldering without taking the thing out of the thing (as I thought it'd be a quick fix) and, yeah, that Immortal would be awesome to do the Game Genie hack but I still couldn't get it to work so I never bothered doing a follow-up video. I've mentioned several times in various videos that I don't have a clue what I'm doing half the time, but whatever it is I'm doing seems to work most (some) of the time.

As the video shows above, Brad was able to get the system fixed. He's great at repairs. He saw my video and said, "I can do it!" so I sent it his way, with Shawn Long's approval. All is good.

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