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Final Fantasy VII NES reproduction cart help.

Nov 26, 2012 at 2:37:16 PM
Lugia2009 (0)
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(Nintendo Rulz!) < Tourian Tourist >
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I'm interested in making a reproduction cart of Final Fantasy VII, but I need some help.

I managed to find several Nanjing games. So I took some pictures of the PCBs.

King of Fighters R-2
http://imageshack.us/a/img59/928/dscn6506c.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img688/4888/dscn6509m.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/9346/rscn6507.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img13/2614/rscn6508.jpg

This game I couldn't find any information on, so I'm not even sure if it's 2MB in size.


Samurai Spirits Shodown 2

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/9867/dscn6500.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img705/3326/dscn6503i.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img577/5575/rscn6501.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/142/rscn6502.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img405/6448/rscn6504.jpg


Naruto

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/8660/dscn6488s.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img208/5434/dscn6492a.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img546/5522/dscn6513p.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img255/5227/rscn6493.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/1811/rscn6514n.jpg


This is the most information I could find for these games.


King of Fighters R2

LC3664BML-10--------------64K SRAM
3CU0

TC55328J-25---------------32,768 WORD X 8 BIT CMOS STATIC RAM
9330HBK



Samurai Spirits 2

CXK5864CM-10LL------------8,192-word x 8-bit High Speed CMOS Static RAM
441H59YY

481F16M-------------------?????
D5122*

Chip with no #------------?????


Naruto

GLT7256L08-15J3-----------3.3V 32K x 8 Bit CMOS STATIC RAM
0026 BHYFS

MB8464A-10L---------------CMOS 64K-Bit Low Power SRAM
5403 M63

0114 1-1
MT28F016S5VG-9A-----------2 MEG x 8 SMART 5 EVEN-SECTORED FLASH MEMORY





And here's what I could find about the chips for FF7:

Final Fantasy VII

CY6264-7051---------------128K x 8 Static RAM
9630 312158

Chip with no #------------?????

MX E013345----------------16M-BIT [2Mx8/1Mx16] CMOS SINGLE VOLTAGE 3V ONLY FLASH MEMORY
29LV160BTC-90
2E7700CC



So I wanted to know, if what I found was correct. And which chips would I need to find to make my own copy of FF7. The only ROM chip I could find was for Naruto, I don't know which chip the ROM is stored on for the other carts.

-------------------------
Enjoy Dissidia 012: Final Fantasy? Check out my Dissidia mods!

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz7Z1YGQQul86jnYZzBh5fw/videos



Edited: 11/26/2012 at 09:56 PM by Lugia2009

Nov 26, 2012 at 3:55:06 PM
takeshi (13)
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afaik FF7 used some custom mapper?

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currently translating Legend of the River King for Famicom

Nov 26, 2012 at 4:07:05 PM
Zwario (30)
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(Carlos Monoz) < Meka Chicken >
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Could someone explain this " Customer Mapper" biz to me a bit further!?! I always hear that response...?

"hey I want to make / get a great pirate cart...!"

"oh that one has a custom mapper..."

"oh, never mind"

What is it about those mappers?? Why are they such Mysteries!?

Thanks,

Nov 26, 2012 at 4:15:02 PM
takeshi (13)
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The shots of FF7's pcb i've seen don't even have a through hole chip you could easily replace, it had a flash chip on the board. see if you can find a pinout for that chip and find an equivalent match to use.

Zwario: the 'mapper' refers to special chips setup on the board which control functions such as bank switching, mapping pins to the cart slot, etc. Some mappers aren't fully supported in emulators yet because noone has taken the special chips and found out exactly how they operate. Some mappers also aren't even necessarily 'perfect' matches, they just get the proper input > output to work, but might not actually get there the same way as the real hardware. This is why sometimes rom hacks will work perfectly in an emulator then be a disaster on real hardware, because the emulated equivalent might not handle things 1:1 and take into consideration ways the real hardware reacts.

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currently translating Legend of the River King for Famicom

Nov 26, 2012 at 4:16:16 PM
protitus (2)
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I've heard that the FF7 for the NES is too large of a file. I don't know much about it other than that. I'd love to play that game on my system.

-------------------------
My Mother 3 Reproduction Cart Video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD...

Nov 26, 2012 at 5:15:17 PM
Zwario (30)
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Takeshi, thanks! Not that I understood all of that... But I think I get it now!

If you are interested, I do have the Chinese Pirate of FF7, Famicom cart, I've played it... Pretty tricky without knowing Chinese, let me know if you want it

Nov 26, 2012 at 5:16:49 PM
takeshi (13)
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I'd be interested in shots of your cart just to see if it's the same PCB

I think the team translating the rom were actually hoping to convert to a more standard mapper if possible after they finish their corrections, but I don't know if that is still happening

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currently translating Legend of the River King for Famicom

Nov 26, 2012 at 5:39:31 PM
Lugia2009 (0)
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All of these games use mapper 163, same as Final Fantasy VII. Final Fantasy VII is 2mb in size which is what Samurai Spirits and Naruto are also. I'm not so sure about King of fighters though. But from what I've seen, many of their games are 2mb in size. Though Final Fanasy IV is only 1mb.

Here's some pics I found of Final Fantasy VII's PCB.

http://imageshack.us/a/img525/923...
http://imageshack.us/a/img837/540...
http://imageshack.us/a/img802/742...
http://imageshack.us/a/img109/427...
http://imageshack.us/a/img339/363...
http://imageshack.us/a/img607/812...

-------------------------
Enjoy Dissidia 012: Final Fantasy? Check out my Dissidia mods!

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz7Z1YGQQul86jnYZzBh5fw/videos


Nov 26, 2012 at 5:41:08 PM
takeshi (13)
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yeah, I wanted other pics of the pcb to see if his cart is the same. also the mapper # doesn't necessarily mean it's the same hardware across all three

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currently translating Legend of the River King for Famicom

Nov 26, 2012 at 5:57:47 PM
DxS (150)
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All of those black globs are basically chips, too.

I think the best way would be to desolder and reprogram the MX29LV160. That PCB looks extremely cheap, so it wouldn't be very easy.

-------------------------
 

Nov 26, 2012 at 6:01:48 PM
takeshi (13)
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might wanna wait for the FF7 project team to complete the new game too before flashing a whole new cart, least I would?

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currently translating Legend of the River King for Famicom

Nov 26, 2012 at 6:04:19 PM
Moothead2 (2)

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Originally posted by: takeshi

might wanna wait for the FF7 project team to complete the new game too before flashing a whole new cart, least I would?


He IS the project team .

Nov 26, 2012 at 6:53:03 PM
Lugia2009 (0)
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Originally posted by: DxS

All of those black globs are basically chips, too.

I think the best way would be to desolder and reprogram the MX29LV160. That PCB looks extremely cheap, so it wouldn't be very easy.


Unfortunately, I don't own the FF7 cartridge. So I'm hoping one of the three I own will be compatible.

-------------------------
Enjoy Dissidia 012: Final Fantasy? Check out my Dissidia mods!

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz7Z1YGQQul86jnYZzBh5fw/videos


Nov 26, 2012 at 7:01:50 PM
takeshi (13)
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Originally posted by: Moothead2

Originally posted by: takeshi

might wanna wait for the FF7 project team to complete the new game too before flashing a whole new cart, least I would?


He IS the project team .


oh ya?

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currently translating Legend of the River King for Famicom

Nov 26, 2012 at 7:39:34 PM
Lincoln (138)
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assuming the mapper hardware is actually the same, I would start with the KoF cart, since the chips are readily identifiable. one of the ram chips is for saving, the other is chr-ram. those can both stay as they are both used for ff7.

You're going to need a 16 mb flash chip to write the rom to. You'll want to compare pinouts for the MT28F016S5VG on the KoF cart and whatever flash chip you can round up. If you find one with compatible pinout, you can desolder the existing chip and put the new one down. if the pinouts are different you may have to rewire. you might be able to get away with just cutting power to the old chip to disable it and installing the new chip over top of it.

I don't have any experience with flash chips but it might even be possible to reprogram the existing flash chip. You would need to get it off the board, or somehow rig it up to a programmer.

-------------------------
ebay auctionsrunning FS thread famiROM thread for .nes info and splitting / rom hacks link/discussion

Nov 26, 2012 at 9:57:41 PM
Lugia2009 (0)
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Originally posted by: takeshi

Originally posted by: Moothead2

Originally posted by: takeshi

might wanna wait for the FF7 project team to complete the new game too before flashing a whole new cart, least I would?


He IS the project team .


oh ya?

Yep, that's me


-------------------------
Enjoy Dissidia 012: Final Fantasy? Check out my Dissidia mods!

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz7Z1YGQQul86jnYZzBh5fw/videos



Edited: 11/26/2012 at 10:02 PM by Lugia2009

Nov 26, 2012 at 10:00:58 PM
Lugia2009 (0)
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Originally posted by: Lincoln

assuming the mapper hardware is actually the same, I would start with the KoF cart, since the chips are readily identifiable. one of the ram chips is for saving, the other is chr-ram. those can both stay as they are both used for ff7.

You're going to need a 16 mb flash chip to write the rom to. You'll want to compare pinouts for the MT28F016S5VG on the KoF cart and whatever flash chip you can round up. If you find one with compatible pinout, you can desolder the existing chip and put the new one down. if the pinouts are different you may have to rewire. you might be able to get away with just cutting power to the old chip to disable it and installing the new chip over top of it.

I don't have any experience with flash chips but it might even be possible to reprogram the existing flash chip. You would need to get it off the board, or somehow rig it up to a programmer.
(Sorry, I didn't put the games in the right order, that was the Naruto cart you looked at. I fixed it.)
So it just needs the same pinout, I thought it had to be the exact same chip. Okay, that's good.
But what about the other games, king of fighters only has 2 RAM chips, where would the ROM be stored on that game?


-------------------------
Enjoy Dissidia 012: Final Fantasy? Check out my Dissidia mods!

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz7Z1YGQQul86jnYZzBh5fw/videos



Edited: 11/26/2012 at 10:03 PM by Lugia2009

Nov 26, 2012 at 10:26:05 PM
Lincoln (138)
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Originally posted by: Lugia2009

Originally posted by: Lincoln

 
(Sorry, I didn't put the games in the right order, that was the Naruto cart you looked at. I fixed it.)
So it just needs the same pinout, I thought it had to be the exact same chip. Okay, that's good.
But what about the other games, king of fighters only has 2 RAM chips, where would the ROM be stored on that game?
 

I guess the  KoF rom would have to be under the epoxy, by process of elimination. If I'm reading datasheets right, LC3664BML-10 is 8 KByte ram and TC55328J-25 is 32 KByte ram. I would guess the first is chr-ram, since I've never seen more than 8K for chr-ram. I can't imagine 32K is enough space for the whole rom. so the second chip is probably wram. That leaves the space under the epoxy. Assuming all that, the KoF would be a difficult donor. Not that it can't be done I guess, but that's over my head.

for samurai spirits I think the smaller pcb with the epoxy blob is the ROM . the blank chip on the front looks like it's another RAM chip. You would probably have to trace out the board to determine the pinout from that.

and while I'm thinking through all of this, it should be possible to use 2x 27C080 eproms in place of the flash chip for the rom. I think you would use the highest address line to enable one chip or the othe at a time. I've never done that but it's a thought.

if you haven't done so already I would recommend asking over at nesdev. those guys are wizards and they should have better info than some bum repro maker (me).


-------------------------
ebay auctionsrunning FS thread famiROM thread for .nes info and splitting / rom hacks link/discussion

Nov 27, 2012 at 12:28:11 AM
DxS (150)
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Using the Naruto PCB would probably be your best bet. It should be as simple as desoldering the MT28F016S5VG and reprogramming it. You could also get a compatible chip (the AM29F016B-90E4C should work) and just swap the two.

-------------------------
 

Nov 27, 2012 at 8:47:44 AM
Lugia2009 (0)
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Originally posted by: DxS

Using the Naruto PCB would probably be your best bet. It should be as simple as desoldering the MT28F016S5VG and reprogramming it. You could also get a compatible chip (the AM29F016B-90E4C should work) and just swap the two.

I couldn't find that exact chip on eBay, but would any 16 Megabit (2 M x 8-Bit) CMOS 5.0 Volt-only Uniform Sector Flash Memory chip work?

Also, what type of programmer would I need? I was looking at this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP853-USB-Universal-Programmer-12-M...

And this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170945941471?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDX...


-------------------------
Enjoy Dissidia 012: Final Fantasy? Check out my Dissidia mods!

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz7Z1YGQQul86jnYZzBh5fw/videos


Nov 27, 2012 at 8:49:33 AM
Lugia2009 (0)
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Originally posted by: Lincoln

Originally posted by: Lugia2009

Originally posted by: Lincoln

 
(Sorry, I didn't put the games in the right order, that was the Naruto cart you looked at. I fixed it.)
So it just needs the same pinout, I thought it had to be the exact same chip. Okay, that's good.
But what about the other games, king of fighters only has 2 RAM chips, where would the ROM be stored on that game?
 

I guess the  KoF rom would have to be under the epoxy, by process of elimination. If I'm reading datasheets right, LC3664BML-10 is 8 KByte ram and TC55328J-25 is 32 KByte ram. I would guess the first is chr-ram, since I've never seen more than 8K for chr-ram. I can't imagine 32K is enough space for the whole rom. so the second chip is probably wram. That leaves the space under the epoxy. Assuming all that, the KoF would be a difficult donor. Not that it can't be done I guess, but that's over my head.

I was afraid of that. How would I go about removing the epoxy without damaging anything?
 




-------------------------
Enjoy Dissidia 012: Final Fantasy? Check out my Dissidia mods!

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz7Z1YGQQul86jnYZzBh5fw/videos



Edited: 11/27/2012 at 10:08 AM by Lugia2009

Nov 27, 2012 at 10:19:15 AM
Lincoln (138)
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I don't believe the top853 can do those flash chips. That second programmer lists the part numbers for the flash chips on your carts, so I would guess that is what you want.

I think epoxy removal requires chemicals and careful cleaning. I'm not familiar with the process.

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ebay auctionsrunning FS thread famiROM thread for .nes info and splitting / rom hacks link/discussion

Nov 27, 2012 at 11:46:44 AM
Moothead2 (2)

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Does anyone know if a doubled up ROM on a AM29F032 will work? They have almost identical pinouts but pin 39 on the AM chip is A21 but NC on the MT chip and pin 11 is NC on the AM chip and Vpp on the MT chip.

http://html.alldatasheet.com/html...
http://html.alldatasheet.com/html...

Alternatively, I found these which should work: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E28F016...


Edited: 11/27/2012 at 12:00 PM by Moothead2

Nov 27, 2012 at 12:33:01 PM
Lincoln (138)
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doubling your rom should be fine. you'll have to jumper the different pins to an appropriate place. assuming A21 is the highest address pin on the 32M chip, you can tie it directly to +5v or GND, which will lock it to the high or low half of the chip respectively. NC is no connection so you do not have to do anything with NC pins.

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ebay auctionsrunning FS thread famiROM thread for .nes info and splitting / rom hacks link/discussion

Nov 27, 2012 at 3:31:59 PM
takeshi (13)
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yeah the top 853 is for eproms, I can't say with 100% certainty it wouldn't work with some kinda flash chip adapter for flashing tho. I use an 853 for nes repros

-------------------------
currently translating Legend of the River King for Famicom