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Pokemon Yellow saving doesnt work on the AVS.

Oct 31, 2016 at 10:34:30 PM
Tulpa (2)
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Originally posted by: avlon
I did offer to send lend my cart to RetroUSB (as did another user on Facebook) on the thread discussing this, but there was no response to that there. 
Because Brian's been at PRGE (not to mention preparing for it.) Why not email him again?

 

Oct 31, 2016 at 11:02:46 PM
KHAN Games (89)
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Originally posted by: Tulpa
 
Originally posted by: avlon
I did offer to send lend my cart to RetroUSB (as did another user on Facebook) on the thread discussing this, but there was no response to that there. 
Because Brian's been at PRGE (not to mention preparing for it.) Why not email him again?

 

Brian and basically everyone who has anything to do with retroUSB.  

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Nov 1, 2016 at 7:55:10 AM
avlon (2)
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Originally posted by: TheCavalry

I am finding it hard to help you, if you aren't able to see or willing to concede that the issue could be with your cart. My FF7 cart works on AVS. It works great. There is no corruption. The repro carts made by a user here are also reported to work great. How much more reporting and evidence is needed to narrow down the issue to your cart for you? Just because it looks great on the outside doesn't mean they didn't use poor quality parts, bad programming, corrupt data, etc... You can't see through the glob tops either way.

Also your understanding of why the AVS is superior to other clones is shortsighted. I understand that you're frustrated, but just because this one cart of yours works on your clone and not the AVS doesn't mean the AVS is technically inferior. The AVS is stated to be superior to other clones because it uses an FPGA to simulate the actual hardware instead of a NOAC solution that uses software emulation. This means that operationally it is much closer to the actual hardware than any other clone system currently available.

It is a more complex issue to fix than "well it works on my super retro trio, so make it happen retrousb!" And the source of the issue most likely goes back to your cart, like I have been saying from the word go.

I feel the opposite, like you're being an apologist, and being willfully ignorant because the game works in your case.  The SRT is simply a cheap backup to the original NES.  If it works perfectly on the original NES, then it's not the cart.  Your version is a famicom version hacked together through an adapter. Maybe it uses a different version of the ROM, maybe the pins make better contact through that adapter. etc. I can make Castlevania 3 work perfectly on the SRT through an Everdrive, but the original cart won't work. Do we blame my original Castlevania 3 cart in that case as well?

The issue is not dissimilar to green pin games. They work perfect on the original, but require finagling on the AVS to get the to work.  

To reiterate your point, "The AVS is stated to be superior to other clones because it uses an FPGA to simulate the actual hardware instead of a NOAC solution that uses software emulation. This means that operationally it is much closer to the actual hardware than any other clone system currently available." - Exactly why I tried it with an original NES (works perfect), the AVS (glitchy), and cheap clone (works perfect). Is my original NES the problem? Is the original pin adapter the problem?  Of course not... it's the AVS.  Again, the latest beta improved the game, and got it closer to working, so it's not the cart.  The NES is the gold standard. If it didn't work there, or the AVS, but still worked on the SRT, then I'd blame the cart. To reiterate that point, it's not "so it works on the SRT, make it work.. it's "so it works on the actual hardware, make it work."

Again, if no one reports issues, problems won't be fixed.  It's a product, not a damsel in distress in need of saving. Let's treat it as such. We can agree to disagree, and if you're in the NY area, I'd be happy to meet up somewhere to compare carts, systems etc. After all, the goal is to get 1:1 with the original system, and even beyond that.

 

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Nov 1, 2016 at 7:59:52 AM
avlon (2)
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Originally posted by: Tulpa
 
Originally posted by: avlon
I did offer to send lend my cart to RetroUSB (as did another user on Facebook) on the thread discussing this, but there was no response to that there. 
Because Brian's been at PRGE (not to mention preparing for it.) Why not email him again?

 

This was a while back actually, but yea, I'll give it another go, and see what happens.  I'll aso remind them that I'd love to see Haunted Halloween 85's game genie codes added to their next firmware. 

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Nov 1, 2016 at 10:51:18 AM
CZroe (31)
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Originally posted by: TheCavalry

I am finding it hard to help you, if you aren't able to see or willing to concede that the issue could be with your cart. My FF7 cart works on AVS. It works great. There is no corruption. The repro carts made by a user here are also reported to work great. How much more reporting and evidence is needed to narrow down the issue to your cart for you? Just because it looks great on the outside doesn't mean they didn't use poor quality parts, bad programming, corrupt data, etc... You can't see through the glob tops either way.

Also your understanding of why the AVS is superior to other clones is shortsighted. I understand that you're frustrated, but just because this one cart of yours works on your clone and not the AVS doesn't mean the AVS is technically inferior. The AVS is stated to be superior to other clones because it uses an FPGA to simulate the actual hardware instead of a NOAC solution that uses software emulation. This means that operationally it is much closer to the actual hardware than any other clone system currently available.

It is a more complex issue to fix than "well it works on my super retro trio, so make it happen retrousb!" And the source of the issue most likely goes back to your cart, like I have been saying from the word go.
Dude. He's not talking about FFVII. Even Brian doesn't assume it works, hence, the "?" in his update log. Right now we can only theorize while we wait, but it makes sense to start that speculation from an informed position:
NOAC clone consoles are not emulation, which is why they don't get features like save states and HDMI. Retron5 and RetroPie-based devices are emulation consoles but they do not use an NOAC. NOACs are compatible hardware produced cheaply in mass quantities with no improvements (composite only) and lots of little quirks that have never been fixed. Their design has never been updated since they were designed decades ago. Just as often a compatability issue with them is because they DON'T have a quirk that the original hardware had rather than a quirk they introduced. The advantage of an FPGA is that the hardware is not set in stone based on an ancient lithograph stencil and someone intimately familiar with the original hardware can update it to be closer to the original as the quirks are discovered. It's like having the best of bother worlds (emulation and hardware).


Edited: 11/01/2016 at 10:56 AM by CZroe

Nov 1, 2016 at 11:19:35 AM
Tulpa (2)
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Originally posted by: avlon
 
Originally posted by: Tulpa
 
Originally posted by: avlon
I did offer to send lend my cart to RetroUSB (as did another user on Facebook) on the thread discussing this, but there was no response to that there. 
Because Brian's been at PRGE (not to mention preparing for it.) Why not email him again?

 

This was a while back actually, but yea, I'll give it another go, and see what happens.  I'll aso remind them that I'd love to see Haunted Halloween 85's game genie codes added to their next firmware. 
PRGE takes a lot of prep for a vendor, not to mention shipping the huge initial order. Then there was the reinforcement of the USB ports in the units. He does have a lot on his plate.



 


Edited: 11/01/2016 at 11:25 AM by Tulpa

Nov 1, 2016 at 12:34:48 PM
TheCavalry (11)

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Originally posted by: CZroe
 
Originally posted by: TheCavalry
.
Dude. He's not talking about FFVII. Even Brian doesn't assume it works, hence, the "?" in his update log. Right now we can only theorize while we wait, but it makes sense to start that speculation from an informed position:
NOAC clone consoles are not emulation, which is why they don't get features like save states and HDMI. Retron5 and RetroPie-based devices are emulation consoles but they do not use an NOAC. NOACs are compatible hardware produced cheaply in mass quantities with no improvements (composite only) and lots of little quirks that have never been fixed. Their design has never been updated since they were designed decades ago. Just as often a compatability issue with them is because they DON'T have a quirk that the original hardware had rather than a quirk they introduced. The advantage of an FPGA is that the hardware is not set in stone based on an ancient lithograph stencil and someone intimately familiar with the original hardware can update it to be closer to the original as the quirks are discovered. It's like having the best of bother worlds (emulation and hardware).

Fair enough.  But Avlon is specifically discussing ff7 carts as that is why he floats his video everywhere he can. Here is the other part of the informed position you want us all standing on: there are several instances of trouble free ff7 carts working on AVS. Mine, a user who bought a repro through an NA builder, several twitch streamers who demoed the AVS prior to and after release. We all use the same AVS system and we all have different carts.  

We can't be apologists if it actually works for us. It's not a controversy, it's demonstrably factual. And it is a totally separate issue than green strip carts as that issue is due to the connector not reading the carts due to the pins not being long enough, not because of FPGA mapper handling. Those are two distinct and different issues. One to be solved with a new daughterboard and the other with firmware.

In any case I don't this is going to be a productive conversation for me to continue. I wish you all well getting your carts to work. And it sucks that pokemon yellow still has issues as I would love to own the cart to play on my AVS.


Edited: 11/01/2016 at 12:45 PM by TheCavalry

Nov 1, 2016 at 2:55:19 PM
KHAN Games (89)
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It will hopefully work eventually, so don't lose hope. I know Brian is sick now from his kids' flu, so it may be another week or two before he can look at it (if he even has a Pokemon Yellow of this type to test. I know there are at least four different versions floating around).

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Nov 1, 2016 at 3:17:53 PM
Tulpa (2)
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If there was ever a time for someone to come up with a cure for the flu, it's now.  

Nov 1, 2016 at 3:18:54 PM
SoleGooseProductions (129)
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Every new board, and/or pirate of a pirate of a pirate mapper, likely works differently, hence all of the different updates needed to get one game to work (which isn't one game as far as the console is concerned). The original developers of these games did not have official dev kits and while they did some neat work, it likely deviates from the normal specs. Similar to the early days of homebrewing where games like Sack of Flour, Heart of Gold would work in an inaccurate emulator, but not on a real system.

I'll be curious to see how some of the games that only work on NOACs, and not official systems, behave on the AVS.

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Nov 1, 2016 at 3:34:37 PM
AaronE (52)
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I really want to provide additional context on this and how there's in excess of 4 different board versions for these games so it makes it interesting but I'm not going to bother with this thread.

Nov 1, 2016 at 4:10:37 PM
BouncekDeLemos (81)
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Originally posted by: AaronE

I really want to provide additional context on this and how there's in excess of 4 different board versions for these games so it makes it interesting but I'm not going to bother with this thread.
Interesting indeed. No need to delve into specifics, I think most of us here (including myself) didn't even think of versions/revisions. 

 

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Nov 1, 2016 at 8:00:22 PM
avlon (2)
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Originally posted by: CZroe
 
Originally posted by: TheCavalry

I am finding it hard to help you, if you aren't able to see or willing to concede that the issue could be with your cart. My FF7 cart works on AVS. It works great. There is no corruption. The repro carts made by a user here are also reported to work great. How much more reporting and evidence is needed to narrow down the issue to your cart for you? Just because it looks great on the outside doesn't mean they didn't use poor quality parts, bad programming, corrupt data, etc... You can't see through the glob tops either way.

Also your understanding of why the AVS is superior to other clones is shortsighted. I understand that you're frustrated, but just because this one cart of yours works on your clone and not the AVS doesn't mean the AVS is technically inferior. The AVS is stated to be superior to other clones because it uses an FPGA to simulate the actual hardware instead of a NOAC solution that uses software emulation. This means that operationally it is much closer to the actual hardware than any other clone system currently available.

It is a more complex issue to fix than "well it works on my super retro trio, so make it happen retrousb!" And the source of the issue most likely goes back to your cart, like I have been saying from the word go.
Dude. He's not talking about FFVII. Even Brian doesn't assume it works, hence, the "?" in his update log. Right now we can only theorize while we wait, but it makes sense to start that speculation from an informed position:
NOAC clone consoles are not emulation, which is why they don't get features like save states and HDMI. Retron5 and RetroPie-based devices are emulation consoles but they do not use an NOAC. NOACs are compatible hardware produced cheaply in mass quantities with no improvements (composite only) and lots of little quirks that have never been fixed. Their design has never been updated since they were designed decades ago. Just as often a compatability issue with them is because they DON'T have a quirk that the original hardware had rather than a quirk they introduced. The advantage of an FPGA is that the hardware is not set in stone based on an ancient lithograph stencil and someone intimately familiar with the original hardware can update it to be closer to the original as the quirks are discovered. It's like having the best of bother worlds (emulation and hardware).

At this point, he's being purposely obtuse, and the veiled insults aren't helping his case.  It's the nature of the internet, and if he has an issue with it, so what? Anyone with common sense can see what my message is, and I'll happily update when the fix comes.  

RetroUSB themselves are working on it, which was the point of the video, and I'm happy that's the case. 
 

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Nov 1, 2016 at 9:17:55 PM
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Ironically, my FFVII cart works just fine. But Pokemon Yellow is what I want to play atm. I bought FFVII at flashback btw. Pokemon Yellow I got via ebay. I am of the same opinion that if it works on my NES, my NES 2 and my RDP, then yeah its probably not the cart. Anywho, I did get a response from them, which is as follows;

"Hello,

Thank you for reporting this issue. I will keep your contact info and let
you know once we have a fix!

Please let me know if you run into any other issues.

Thank you!"

Kinda boilerplate response yeah, but they did respond, which is good. So they know it is an issue.


Edited: 11/01/2016 at 09:18 PM by Oddzball

Nov 1, 2016 at 10:52:01 PM
bunnyboy (81)
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What is the source for the Pokemon Yellow carts that do not work?

Nov 2, 2016 at 6:29:58 PM
KHAN Games (89)
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People will comment all day long in this thread until you actually want to help them.  

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Nov 2, 2016 at 6:36:06 PM
AaronE (52)
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

What is the source for the Pokemon Yellow carts that do not work?

Oddzball said eBay was the source. Personally I'd like to see the board in it to see if it's one of the CPLD 72 pin copies of the pirate mapper Famicom game which was then later hacked by Lugia2009 to what people see now. The CPLD 72 pin version might behave differently than the FC Pirate in a Famicom to NES pin converter which uses the original pirate mapper COB.

Nov 2, 2016 at 8:13:57 PM
Oddzball (6)

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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

What is the source for the Pokemon Yellow carts that do not work?


Got it off Ebay. Im willing to help, take pictures of the board or whatever you need me to do really. Its not a major issue, just hope it gets fixed eventually.

Nov 2, 2016 at 8:14:39 PM
Oddzball (6)

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Originally posted by: AaronE
 
Originally posted by: bunnyboy

What is the source for the Pokemon Yellow carts that do not work?

Oddzball said eBay was the source. Personally I'd like to see the board in it to see if it's one of the CPLD 72 pin copies of the pirate mapper Famicom game which was then later hacked by Lugia2009 to what people see now. The CPLD 72 pin version might behave differently than the FC Pirate in a Famicom to NES pin converter which uses the original pirate mapper COB.

You want pictures of the board? No problem. Ill take some tonight and post them for ya.
 

Nov 2, 2016 at 8:15:39 PM
AaronE (52)
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Originally posted by: Oddzball
 
Originally posted by: AaronE
 
Originally posted by: bunnyboy

What is the source for the Pokemon Yellow carts that do not work?

Oddzball said eBay was the source. Personally I'd like to see the board in it to see if it's one of the CPLD 72 pin copies of the pirate mapper Famicom game which was then later hacked by Lugia2009 to what people see now. The CPLD 72 pin version might behave differently than the FC Pirate in a Famicom to NES pin converter which uses the original pirate mapper COB.

You want pictures of the board? No problem. Ill take some tonight and post them for ya.
 
Yes that would help Brian narrow down which one you might own and might be the best revision to test on.

 

Nov 2, 2016 at 8:19:04 PM
Oddzball (6)

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Originally posted by: AaronE
 
Originally posted by: Oddzball
 
Originally posted by: AaronE
 
Originally posted by: bunnyboy

What is the source for the Pokemon Yellow carts that do not work?

Oddzball said eBay was the source. Personally I'd like to see the board in it to see if it's one of the CPLD 72 pin copies of the pirate mapper Famicom game which was then later hacked by Lugia2009 to what people see now. The CPLD 72 pin version might behave differently than the FC Pirate in a Famicom to NES pin converter which uses the original pirate mapper COB.

You want pictures of the board? No problem. Ill take some tonight and post them for ya.
 
Yes that would help Brian narrow down which one you might own and might be the best revision to test on.

 

If he wants and pictures arent enough, I would be willing to loan him my cart to make the fix. Just been really busy atm, personal and all, but have a family member dying of cancer so between work etc, Im just too exhausted to go to the post office after work.
 

Nov 2, 2016 at 8:32:37 PM
Oddzball (6)

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Nov 2, 2016 at 9:16:31 PM
AaronE (52)
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Originally posted by: Oddzball
 
Originally posted by: AaronE
 
Originally posted by: Oddzball
 
Originally posted by: AaronE
 
Originally posted by: bunnyboy

What is the source for the Pokemon Yellow carts that do not work?

Oddzball said eBay was the source. Personally I'd like to see the board in it to see if it's one of the CPLD 72 pin copies of the pirate mapper Famicom game which was then later hacked by Lugia2009 to what people see now. The CPLD 72 pin version might behave differently than the FC Pirate in a Famicom to NES pin converter which uses the original pirate mapper COB.

You want pictures of the board? No problem. Ill take some tonight and post them for ya.
 
Yes that would help Brian narrow down which one you might own and might be the best revision to test on.

 

If he wants and pictures arent enough, I would be willing to loan him my cart to make the fix. Just been really busy atm, personal and all, but have a family member dying of cancer so between work etc, Im just too exhausted to go to the post office after work.
 
No worries and sorry to hear about your family member.
I don't think he wants to borrow anyones cart. It's better for testing if he had his own.

By the pictures you linked I can get Brian a link to where he can buy one which is most likely the same as yours. (72Pin version, CPLD, voltage regulator onboard)

 

Nov 2, 2016 at 10:09:42 PM
avlon (2)
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Originally posted by: Oddzball

Here are the pictures;

http://i.imgur.com/BAei8UR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ibLvlW8.jpg

Looks like our carts use the same boards.  Here are the ones from mine.






screenshot on pc

I wonder if your Ebay seller originally got the cart from the same Aliexpress seller: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/...

They seem to be a pretty big seller, and pop up right away if you do a search for these particular games on aliexpress.  Just for the heck of it, I almost bought a 72 to 60 pin adapter just to test it through the famicom board.... then I saw the $40 shipping and quickly emptied my cart. LOL

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Edited: 11/02/2016 at 10:13 PM by avlon

Nov 2, 2016 at 10:11:07 PM
Oddzball (6)

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Originally posted by: avlon
 
Originally posted by: Oddzball

Here are the pictures;

http://i.imgur.com/BAei8UR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ibLvlW8.jpg

Looks like our carts use the same boards.  Here are the ones from mine.






screenshot on pc

I wonder if your Ebay seller originally got the cart from the same Aliexpress seller: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Games-for-N-E-S/63334...

They seem to be a pretty big seller, and pop up right away if you do a search for these particular games on aliexpress.


I think I might open up my FFVII cart and see what it looks like. That game actually works fine for me, but not for you?