If you dont tip for good, friendly service at a sit down restaurant, you are cheap. Justify it however you want.

Thank God Im not at the point in my life where Im comparing someone bringing me food to slavery so I dont have to cut loose an extra 10-20.

Holy schneikys this is a long thread. Anyway I dont like tipping but I still tip about average or better than average at a sitdown place. However if I get a lousy server I tip pretty low and if its reaally bad then I zero-tip, I figure the lowest you can tip a moderately busy server before they "lose money" relative to wage and taking into account their low hourly wage, is probably about 4%, assuming not everyone else theyre serving isnt doing the same thing, so thats my lowest except zero.

My biggest gripe with it is that its such a war about who should tip how much and what but its really only benefiting the owners who are able to slightly shift the wage burden onto the customers, not to mention the social burden on both customer and server. It's crooked as fuck

I wonder if the 1 person who doesn't tip in this thread feels good about themselves...

I guess more money for videogames, eh?  

Mentally draining positions can absolutely take more of a toll on you than writing down orders and bringing food to tables. I'd love to see a waiter or waitress hustle in a high call environment IT position and then say which position is more difficult and stressful.

Just like weed dealers - everyone's shit is the best (aka, everyone's job is the most difficult and demands more than X job and deserves Y pay).

So, just like you, I'd like to see a wait staff sit in a desk position that requires a technical background n a high call volume situation. Once you do that, then make the comparison.

Hell, if you think that's so laboring, try working at a shipyard. No choice but to hustle and bustle for 8-12 hours a day and I know for a fact it's more physically demanding than any wait staff position.

And seriously? 4 to 6 hours? Do you not work a full shift?

To be fair, good service should be the incentive for the customer to keep going back, not the employee. A good work environment + fair wages = incentive to keep coming back (though, there are several "incentives" to return, such as fear of getting fired and not being able to pay your bills).

Also, raising to minimum wage wouldn't increase a $13 to $18. Such exaggeration. At least pre-tax.

Let's do a breakdown between Connecticut and Oregon.
CT: Min Wage: $10.10/hr, tipped min wage is $6.38
Oregon: $11.25 min wage, tipped staff is tipped at the state minimum wage ($11.25).

Oregon Restaurant: http://www.stonecliffinn.com/imag...
CT Restaurant of similiar menu and rating: https://mohegansun.com/content/da...

Prices are very similar. Similar customer rating. Why is the cheaper labor state as expensive as the more expensive minimum wage state? I will contend that CT requires sales tax, but not a 10%+ disparity that would justify the increase.

Funny that the state min wage wait staff in Oregon doesn't have prices 30-40% higher than CT's who get paid $6.38/hr + tips.

Seems the 9 states that don't have a separate minimum wage pay are comparable in prices everywhere, so I fail to see that argument that prices would need a 20-40% increase.

Wow...this is still rolling lmao. Oh how we can debate an established societal norm, when it really comes down to people being cheapasses and/or selfish as shit. Selfish people tend to defend their ways to the moon and back - they live on pedestals and cannot even acknowledge the valid points of others.

Going out to eat is an experience, or it should be. The experience is to sit on your ass, enjoy time with your company and to be served - resulting in a enjoyable time and a break from the neverending grind of life. We all know waiters depend on tips, so do your part when you can. If you were in their shoes for one reason or another, you would want to be tipped too.

So...back to an excellent point made like 29 pages ago. Why do we do any of the following? Is it because these societal norms are more for loves ones or what? They are not lawfully required...seriously I'd love some valid opinions from the anti-tippers.

1. Celebrate Holidays - any and all of them
2. Have Birthday Parties/Gifts for our Kids
2. Buy Xmas Presents for our loved ones
3. Buy gifts for people celebrating life events
4. Help a neighbor
5. Open the door for a stranger
6. (probably 10,000 examples we could derive here)

If you live your life thinking in the mindset of "I won't do ABC because I don't have to" or "it doesn't benefit me" - then your lives are in my opinion the shallow ones and you really should take a step back and think about that...

For the anti-tippers - honestly I fully understand your concern and can't say I 100% disagree. If our society somehow stepped up and changed the culture, economical structure, and lawful considerations - there would probably be a lot of people onboard with changing this societal norm. Until that happens, I will do my part and accept this as a part of the experience - and I'm 100% okay with that because dining out is not a necessity.

I don't ever tip for fast food.

I always tip at least 20% at sit down dine-in restaurants. I'll tip less that 20% if the service really bad, but this honestly rarely happens.

For delivery I usually tip somewhere around $5.

Having just read through this whole thread, I find it odd/interesting that I haven't seen a single instance of this brought up: In many (most?) states, tips count toward whatever the normal state minimum wage is. In those states, regardless of what the tipped minimum wage is, if a waiter/waitress doesn't make enough in tips at the end of the night for their service hourly wage + tips to equal minimum wage, it's up to the restaurant to pay the difference.

This is the case in VA and TN (or at least was as of a few years ago when the last of my friends/acquaintances in the service industry moved to other/greener pastures), and is also one of the reasons why a lot of restaurants in my area require wait staff to sit down with a manager/supervisor when counting out at the end of the shift, as they've legally got to make up any shortfall in pay should you actually rake in less than it would take to boost you to regular hourly minimum wage. There are some restaurants who don't mention this fact to anyone and just don't bother (with the few who have ever brought it up quickly finding themselves without further shifts and effectively, but not literally, fired) and others who force their waitstaff to claim a minimum of 15% of their combined checks, even if they didn't make it (with complaining servers again getting shafted on shifts and being quietly fired if they speak up against the practice).

I'm definitely in the reasonable pro-tip camp (tipping 15-20% to start for regular/good service, with movement up or down dependent upon service actually received and other adjustments made for extenuating circumstances on my part, like my kids making a mess, etc.), but wanted to make sure this got brought up. I haven't been able to find a page online that speaks to every state's position on this and have only sporadically found links for states that apply such a policy to their minimum wage/service laws (the one for Texas, for example -- https://www.nolo.com/legal-encycl...), but know that they're out there and are, unfortunately, seemingly frequently abused by restaurants who know and staff who don't.

Edit:  I think there should be an option which combines the current #3 and #6 options ("Tip an average amount when dining in with adequate service." & "Regularly leave greater than average tip.") as I believe in #3 (what I chose) but frequently do #6 due to regularly receiving excellent service.  If it's just ok, I'm going with 15-20%, but if everything is great (which is frequent for me--having worked in the service industry years ago and knowing how to treat/appreciate waitstaff and having two cute under-5's which I do my best to corral and clean up after), I'll go above and beyond.

Edit 2:  Just came across the following link, which is the Federal Government's position on this.  They basically say the same thing as I did above, but point out that some states have their own laws regarding service/minimum wage and, in the case where both apply to a tipped service worker, whichever provides the greater benefit to the worker prevails.  So, yeah, all restaurants who have waiters/waitresses who are actually making below Federal minimum wage are paying their staff illegally.  I know this kind of strikes a blow against the pro- camp and might seem to prop up the anti- camp a bit, but it just shows that per the letter of the law, there should be no waiters/waitresses who actually bring home less than minimum hourly wage each day/week.  https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

I mean, this list literally has nothing to do with tipping, but it is a fun thought experiment. Also, you have #2 listed twice.

1. I celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas, and not for their "intended" meanings. For me, it's just spending time with the family. As a young adult, I hated Christmas (see answer to #2, the 2nd one)

2.1 I don't see birthdays as a big deal, but I still get folks presents as they like to celebrate their birthday.

2.2 As a young adult, I hated Christmas. Having a somewhat decent sized family to buy gifts for when you don't make much is incredibly stressful. After a certain age, I stopped wanting Christmas gifts as well (late teens), though I never "enforced" it because I do know folks like my gram and mom just wanted to make us all happy.

3. Unless they're close friends, I don't buy coworkers birthday presents or anything like that. I chip in to get a "group gift" for the boss at Christmas time, but only because she gets us all a gift card to Amazon every year, so I just feel like I'm paying for my own gift. My coworker who puts that on says that you don't have to pay, but you all know what that equates to.

4. I don't typically talk to my neighbors (mainly because they're all significantly older and spend most of their time inside), but if they asked for a hand with something, and if it were something I was capable of in a non-financial way, then sure, most likely I would lend a hand.

5. The only time I hold the door for someone is if they're literally right there, or I see their arms or full, or when asked. Peoples arms aren't broken, and I'm not going to stand there, waiting for someone to just slowly mosy on over. If someone holds it for me, 9 out of 10 times I say "thanks" and urge them forward so they're not taking up personal space / standing in the doorway.


Going to a theme park (Six Flags, Disney, etc) are all an "experience". You paid for your entry ticket that allows you to ride all the rides. Do you tip the operator after each ride? What about at the local carnival? Do you tip them carnies? They needsta eat too, ya know.

The good experience is required to get the customer to come back, it's not up for the customer to ensure that happens (though they don't have to be dicks, either)

Boosted makes excellent points. 

You are going out to eat for the experience. Literally sitting down and having someone prepare and bring you food at your beck and call. Get off your wallets.
 
Each job has different skillsets, exactly my point.

I respect ALL of those positions. And if one's pay was tied directly to the amount of money I am contributing, I would give them more. 

Not sure what you're asking here.... I personally, DO work 8 hour shifts, at a cozy desk job, haha. But that's besides the point. I've worked all sorts of jobs. Serving (on my own running shit like a champ), shitty factory jobs, awesome factory jobs, shitty desk jobs, great desk jobs.... and I respect them all. I couldn't work in a shipyard or cement factory so I respect the hell out of the people who do/can. 

The point I'm making about servers is that they work SHORTER shifts, thus have less opportunity to earn a "full time" wage. So the tips really help offset working less hours. 

SO when someone earlier commented "Should a waitress make $40/hour, which is more than me and I have a degree and am ssssooooooo smart???"

Well, the answer is yes. Sometimes that server only works 20-30 hours a week. So working shorter shifts you have to earn as much as you can, hence the tipping. 

I would be interested in seeing the correlation between people who do or don't tip and people who do or don't support living wage legislation.

Honestly, I don't think that's the reason why they work short shifts, at all, especially around here. They don't get those extra shifts because if they work a certain amount of hours in a week/reach 130 hours in a month to be provided with insurance if you have 50 or more fulltime employees. And let's be real, a Tuesday early afternoon is going to be a lunch rush where you're slammed, so you won't be having a full staff anyway.

It's seriously unreasonable to think that a waiter/waitress has a more laborous job than any welder or pipefitter in a shipyard, or an auto mechanic, and require a shorter shift.

And them serving you "at your beck and call" is LITERALLY their JOB. Their employer should be paying a fair wage in the first place, not rely on the customer to pay the gap.

No matter the wage, I'm still tipping.

But, for example: Our min. wage is going up here in BC, but not for servers. 
 

"The minimum wage in B.C. is $13.85 an hour (as of June 1, 2019).

• June 1, 2020 – $14.60 an hour
• June 1, 2021 – $15.20 an hour

Previously, the minimum wage was $12.65 per hour (June 1, 2018 to May 30, 2019)."

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/conten...
 

Minimum wage — liquor server

18.1 (1) In this section, “liquor server” means an employee

(a) whose primary duties are as a server of food or drink or both, and

(b) who, as a regular part of his or her employment, serves liquor directly to customers, guests, members or patrons in premises for which a licence to sell liquor has been issued under the Liquor Control and Licensing Act.

(2) The minimum wage for a liquor server is $12.70 an hour.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/conten...

And that jumped from 11.40... but as the website says, it's going up to match the standard minimum wage of $15.20 in June 1, 2021.

BUT... either way... NO matter what that person is getting paid.... You're STILL going to sit down and get waited on. I tip for helpful service. 

In Canada, I highly doubt that'll change. 

I'm not saying they work short shifts because it's hard and laborious. That's jsut the nature of the business. You don't work an 8 hour shift. If you do, it's called a "split", and you (most likely) go home inbetween two somewhat shorter shifts. 

Servers work shorts shifts (hence less hours) because restaurants only have 4-6 hour lunch/dinners. It's how it works, man!

And hell yeah, buddy working out in a shipyard or welding is working his ass off. But his work is not directly tied to my satsifaction and enjoyable experience. 

If I needed something welded, and I went to buddy the welder (which I did recently) and I was sitting there while he did something for me and he literally did it fast and convenient for me.... I would tip him. 

That's not unreasonable.

But for the cases you've mentioned.... It's not like I'm sittting there in the shipyard waiting for buddy fix/weld/do whatever the hell he's doing. He's just out there doing his thing, there's no correlation between my experience and his. 

Hence... when you go to a restaurant, and your experience is directly related to the quality of service you recieve... that service should be rewarded. 

If you don't think so, serve yourself... or as others have said, tell your server that when you sit down. 

As I just previously said... although it's a factor, it's not even about the pay gap.

But, if you know they make less, and you're still unwilling to tip then that makes you an even bigger dick. 

They are literally serving you, haha. It's completely different than some blue collar working job.... not sure why people don't get this. 

I wasn't using the welder/pipefitter as an example for tipping as I agree, they're not really comparable. I was using that as a "it's hard work" counter argument, that's all  

I'll use my theme park example again. You pay, say $50 for a ticket to Six Flags (or $100+ ... yuck... for Disney). You decide to ride all the rides. Do you tip the operators, who are directly responsible for your enjoyment (AND safety), who make probably the same wage as your average server? They're literally operating the ride at your beck and call. Probably not. Do you tip any of the entertainers who are walking around in those hot costumers? At carnivals, do you tip the game vendor or just the price of the game?

All of these professions are catering to your entertainment needs, but chances are you aren't paying them a tip. Why? It's not customary, or a social norm, for these folks to receive a tip, even though their service is as comparable to folks bringing you food.

I have no problem if someone wants to give a tip - that's their choice, but I don't think it should ever be expected or shamed if someone decides they don't want to pay a tip.

I always tip for sit down with service...usually at least 20% depending on the level of service. It is not considered optional, even if people think so. If you dont tip your waiter or waitress, you should stay home...or order carry out and pick up. If the staff is terrible, I can understand not tipping...but if your food is messed up and they fix it I always tip as that isn't the wait staffs issue. I dont tip for carry out. I do tip for delivery and usually do 10% or so depending on the order...or like if it is $30 for a pizza, ill just give them a $5. But if you order 5-6 pizzas and it is $80-100, then I will tip more. These people survive off tips...wait staff and delivery folks get paid less and rely on tips. Thats just how it is. You can say it is the restaurants job...and I agree with that, but that doesn't mean they pay people well, they dont, as they assume they make tips. I guess maybe people should try working the food service industry and then realize how they are treated and deal with crazy requests and then get stiffed when you get paid minimum wage and depend on tips. When I was younger I worked in restaurants and as a bellman...try carrying peoples bags up to their room and unloading all their shit and then getting stiffed. Carry your own shit then...I was getting paid $5.00 an hour and lugging bags in and out of cars/rooms all day.

The thing that really gets me is places like Panera...where I usually never go. I noticed the other day they ask for tips at the register now. You literally order your own food, get handed a buzzer, walk to the counter to pick up your food when its ready and then have to clear your own plates and clean them off. I am not tipping shit for that level of zero service. And the place is insanely over priced to begin with for decent food.

Same. I am still curious. I suspect the dividing lines are very close. I sense similarity in the “against” camp on both issues. 

But maybe they do not fully overlap, because if we had effective living wage regulation, and it applied to servers, maybe the tip structure would become unnecessary.  
 

While not apples to oranges I get your point.  But no, those employees are more properly compensated for their work and they are simply there out of liability and necessity of business operation.  They are not vital to having a grand experience, although they can contribute to making it a bad experience.  Just like my list of societal norms, we could derive thousands of apples and oranges to nitpick and compare back and forth in this regard.

The point is, servers economically rely on tips and should be compensated for a good job - although it's not required by law.  By accepting their service, you should be honorable enough to accept and take part of the societal norm.  If not, simply cook for yourself or do carry out if you don't want to be considered rude by the society surrounding you.  If being considered rude does not bother ya, then party on brother lol.

To the bold - it absolutely is your servers duty to ensure you're getting the food you ordered. It's one thing if you ordered medium-well done and got rare, that's not the servers fault, but if you ordered something that is visibly not correct, it's absolutely their position to catch that mistake.

Honest question - if your server brought you over a sandwich that clearly has large spots of mold on it, do you think that person would deserve a tip?

They're paid minimum wage. That's not compesated more for their work. Even if a server doesn't make enough tips to cover min wage, the business has to pay the difference.

And of course they're vital to the grand experience! What fun is it to walk around a bunch of rides you can't ride?

The point is, folks are making excuses for servers to make low wages. Nobody should be relying on tips for a living.

Oh dra600n if you think a ride operator at a theme park is comparable to the integration of a server at a full-service restaurant, then we are leagues apart  .

I cannot disagree with the bolded statement as a standalone statement, but unfortunately it's reality and part of our society.

 

Let my soda run out..........bring my food to me cold..........Donn't check on me very much......Make we wait for my check and then take it and take forever...etc.............I am engaged to someone who used to wait tables and she told me
what the expectation should be. Do a good job and we always tip 20-30% of the check. I also pity tip people too so I can sleep at night.

You're back from the Area 51 event!!!!  

 

I made it!!! :-)
 

You're purposefully ignoring the points - I understand you're very quick to dismiss others viewpoints based on previous interactions with you. I didn't say they were comparable in what their job duties are, but comparable to the "they're responsible for my entertainment" "argument". They're just as important to the entertainment and functionality of said theme/amusement park just as a server is to a restaurant as both are there to ensure patrons are having a good experience. They provide the same significance to the business. One is tipped, the other isn't. That was my point. They're providing a service just like the other. There is no real argument for why it is the way is except for "it's just that way".

Why would you think that a person who controls literally the attractions of an amusement park not an integral function to the business like a server? Do you think an amusement park would thrive if nobody operated them? It seems you feel this way about your previous statement, so I just want to make sure I understand you as you want to be understood, so that we can definitely be "leagues apart" on this