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Tipping in the food service industry

Sep 22 at 2:04:22 PM
kguillemette (13)

(Kyle Guillemette) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: behemos
 
Originally posted by: kguillemette
 
Originally posted by: Space Jockey
 
Originally posted by: kguillemette
 
Originally posted by: Space Jockey
 
Originally posted by: behemos
 
Originally posted by: Space Jockey

Most service people go into the field knowing they will not make minimum wage. It is spelled out right in front of them during the interview. They accept it because they think they will make above minimum after tips, but it's not guaranteed. They are taking the risk themselves. They chose to work in the field with that risk and accept that some people won't tip. There are there plenty of other jobs available that would pay minimum wage without the risk of not getting any tips. It kind of reminds me of MLM schemes. For just a small investment (risk, i.e your below average wages), you can earn up to $$$$ if you just work hard. The fact that society accepts and basicallyl forces servers to be dependent on the generosity of others is pretty ridiculous.

There are a hell of a lot of customer service type jobs where people deal with the same types of customers that don't get tips, but they get minimum wage. Rude customers, calm nice customers, yelling people, etc. These customer service employees fulfill their jobs without issue. Bad people get fired, good people get retained and sometimes raises and praise. I'm not going to tip my insurance agent because he took care of my collision quickly. He did it quickly because it is his job. Not going to tip the person at the mall who helped me find the right size of shoes, it's his job.



You're why working in the food service industry is hell. Such a self-centered POV. Insane. Just don't go out to eat if you're not willing to make someone's day a bit better.


I'll make their day by not being a rude demanding customer.  Once again a self-centered POV of people who think you need to give money to make someone happy or be a good person somehow.

Are you comfortable paying higher menu prices? There have been some well reknown restaurants doing away with gratuities, or making them optional. The result is typically a 20% higher menu markup. 
 


I'm all for people making a living wage.  If it resulted in paying 20% more so people could make their living wage without the risk, I'd be just fine with it, assuming it meant tipping would go away of course.
Very fair. There are indeed some restaurants nationwide that have rolled this concept out to great success, the main caveat being they are typically ultra high end restaurants. Alinea in chicago, for example, does this. Your check average starts at $100 at most of these places. Your casual fare restaurant may need to hike their prices more than 20% though. 20% on a 20 buck check average is only $4 compared to $20 on a 100 check average.
 



Haha. These people who refuse to tip $5 aren't gonna be eating at Alinea.
I mean you don't know that. The reason why the ultra high end places are the first to try this is because they pull in the raw dollars per check and that a 20% markup is a substantial number offset what would be a major increase to labor costs. There may indeed to a way to entice that crowd that would prefer not to tip. I'd be lying if I said I would not explore a concpt and put a business plan together to see if it were viable. I very likely will. The drag00n's and Space Jockey's would be my regular clientele and might just love this. Their thought process is pretty typical of the millenial generation and we, as restauranteurs, need to figure out how to cater to them.

 

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Sep 22 at 2:11:43 PM
AirVillain (15)
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Wow, where to jump in here....? Jone and many others ahve made excellent points in the "Pro tipping camp." I'll add to it by saying this: 

I look at it like this.... As a server, you're only working 4-5 hour shifts, and you work your ass off.

The tips offset this for not working an 8 hour/day job.

Also, when you sit down at a restaurant to eat, you are LITERALLY telling someone what to do, how to do it, and making them take your orders. They do this while running back and forth to make sure you are properly hydrated. If they do this well, they deserve proper compensation. 

If you think it's an optional fee, that makes you a cheap dick and you should make your own food and serve yourself. 

THE TIP IS FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF NOT SERVING YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING A LAZY ASSHOLE AND HAVING SOMEONE COOK AND SERVE YOU FOOD. 

If you think this service is worthless, you should stay at home. 

I'd love to see anyone who works a desk job get out there and hustle for 4-6 hours.

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Edited: 09/22/2019 at 02:19 PM by AirVillain

Sep 22 at 2:26:44 PM
behemos (126)
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Originally posted by: kguillemette

Originally posted by: behemos
 
Originally posted by: kguillemette
 
Originally posted by: Space Jockey
 
Originally posted by: kguillemette
 
Originally posted by: Space Jockey
 
Originally posted by: behemos
 
Originally posted by: Space Jockey

Most service people go into the field knowing they will not make minimum wage. It is spelled out right in front of them during the interview. They accept it because they think they will make above minimum after tips, but it's not guaranteed. They are taking the risk themselves. They chose to work in the field with that risk and accept that some people won't tip. There are there plenty of other jobs available that would pay minimum wage without the risk of not getting any tips. It kind of reminds me of MLM schemes. For just a small investment (risk, i.e your below average wages), you can earn up to $$$$ if you just work hard. The fact that society accepts and basicallyl forces servers to be dependent on the generosity of others is pretty ridiculous.

There are a hell of a lot of customer service type jobs where people deal with the same types of customers that don't get tips, but they get minimum wage. Rude customers, calm nice customers, yelling people, etc. These customer service employees fulfill their jobs without issue. Bad people get fired, good people get retained and sometimes raises and praise. I'm not going to tip my insurance agent because he took care of my collision quickly. He did it quickly because it is his job. Not going to tip the person at the mall who helped me find the right size of shoes, it's his job.



You're why working in the food service industry is hell. Such a self-centered POV. Insane. Just don't go out to eat if you're not willing to make someone's day a bit better.


I'll make their day by not being a rude demanding customer.  Once again a self-centered POV of people who think you need to give money to make someone happy or be a good person somehow.

Are you comfortable paying higher menu prices? There have been some well reknown restaurants doing away with gratuities, or making them optional. The result is typically a 20% higher menu markup. 
 


I'm all for people making a living wage.  If it resulted in paying 20% more so people could make their living wage without the risk, I'd be just fine with it, assuming it meant tipping would go away of course.
Very fair. There are indeed some restaurants nationwide that have rolled this concept out to great success, the main caveat being they are typically ultra high end restaurants. Alinea in chicago, for example, does this. Your check average starts at $100 at most of these places. Your casual fare restaurant may need to hike their prices more than 20% though. 20% on a 20 buck check average is only $4 compared to $20 on a 100 check average.
 



Haha. These people who refuse to tip $5 aren't gonna be eating at Alinea.
I mean you don't know that. The reason why the ultra high end places are the first to try this is because they pull in the raw dollars per check and that a 20% markup is a substantial number offset what would be a major increase to labor costs. There may indeed to a way to entice that crowd that would prefer not to tip. I'd be lying if I said I would not explore a concpt and put a business plan together to see if it were viable. I very likely will. The drag00n's and Space Jockey's would be my regular clientele and might just love this. Their thought process is pretty typical of the millenial generation and we, as restauranteurs, need to figure out how to cater to them.

 





Completely see what you're saying. And in a vacuum, it makes sense.

But most people who don't tip are just trying to save a few bucks using the idea that tipping is optional. They're not necessarily indicative of a group that would definitely pay $18 for a burger. They just like to argue. They wouldn't actually pay that. They'd simply then just bitch that restaurants are charging too much.

Of course, maybe then they'd just stay home and stop pissing people off.

Sep 22 at 2:33:24 PM
guitarzombie (30)
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I tip because I feel I have to. I think its stupid and should be done away with completely with all areas. You have to tip your barber, but not this guy, but you tip your door man but not this person? Its RIDICULOUS.

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Sep 22 at 2:36:25 PM
Space Jockey (145)
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ALL NA MEMBERS: Being condescending and insulting because somebody doesn't agree with you will not make me or others of similar mindset read your posts or attempt to see things from your viewpoint. Rewrite things properly and civilly and I'd be glad to have a discussion about it. Until then I'm going to opt out since I've said my part and won't be listening to personal attacks from people who I thought were better than this.

I want to thank kguillemette for keeping it going in the right direction, I think we were making good discussion progress on that point.

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Originally posted by: Guntz
On a more serious note, I've played EarthBound today for so long, I feel all tense and mentally worn out.
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Sep 22 at 2:38:12 PM
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I don't tip if I order food and I have to pick it up
I don't tip if all you simply have to do it put my food in a bag
I don't tip if you hand me food
I don't tip if you have to go get my food from the kitchen
I don't tip if I'm in a table and all you do is bring me my food

I do tip when I well served and checked on periodically. And I don't tip on a percentage but in the service you give me. I do tip good for good service, I'm not a cheap ass, but if I get someone who comes and takes my order brings me my food and drinks and only comeback back with the check then you are gonna get what you deserve.

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Sep 22 at 2:41:29 PM
DoctorEncore (6)
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Originally posted by: guitarzombie

I tip because I feel I have to. I think its stupid and should be done away with completely with all areas. You have to tip your barber, but not this guy, but you tip your door man but not this person? Its RIDICULOUS.





I would prefer if the cost was just baked into the service or product I am purchasing, but the tip factor does encourage better service. Conversely, how about the employer create a monetary reward system to encourage better service? Oh wait, this is America and that would cost more for the business. Let's just pass the cost of paying your employees a living wage directly to the customers!

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Sep 22 at 2:58:05 PM
DoctorEncore (6)
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Originally posted by: kguillemette

Okay, go eat at McDonald's then.

Restaurants typically operate on a 5-10% profit margin at their most successful point. Typically that margin is closer from 1-5%.

Food cost is topically 30-33%
Labor is topically 28-32%
Utilities, controllables, rent, equipment maimtenece, landscaping and marketing consume the rest of a restaurants revenue. Anything leftover is finally profit. If you were to increase labor to 40-45% via increased front of house wages, you would need to increase revenue via higher menu prices otherwise the restaurants business plan would no longer be viable.

This is just how managing a restaurant works. I've been doing it for over a decade now, and i want to caution everyone reading your opinions that you seem very misinformed.



This is why minimum wage laws need to include wait staff and other employees who depend on tips. It's impossible to compete if you're the only one raising your prices in order to provide appropriate compensation to your workers. I'd love to walk in and see a menu that says "Our prices are a little higher than our competitors because we pay our employees a living wage. Wait staff still appreciate tips for a job well done, but don't considerate it mandatory. Enjoy your meal."

A man can dream.

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Sep 22 at 3:13:05 PM
guitarzombie (30)
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Originally posted by: DoctorEncore

Originally posted by: guitarzombie

I tip because I feel I have to. I think its stupid and should be done away with completely with all areas. You have to tip your barber, but not this guy, but you tip your door man but not this person? Its RIDICULOUS.



I would prefer if the cost was just baked into the service or product I am purchasing, but the tip factor does encourage better service. Conversely, how about the employer create a monetary reward system to encourage better service? Oh wait, this is America and that would cost more for the business. Let's just pass the cost of paying your employees a living wage directly to the customers!

Good service should be your incentive to KEEP working, else you get fired.  I had this discussion with a bandmate and he said the same thing and I said 'Good!  You'd still end up paying the same and in some restaurants they include it anyway'.


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Sep 22 at 3:20:05 PM
VGS_captmorgandrinker (572)
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Originally posted by: Space Jockey

ALL NA MEMBERS: Being condescending and insulting because somebody doesn't agree with you will not make me or others of similar mindset read your posts or attempt to see things from your viewpoint. Rewrite things properly and civilly and I'd be glad to have a discussion about it. Until then I'm going to opt out since I've said my part and won't be listening to personal attacks from people who I thought were better than this.

I want to thank kguillemette for keeping it going in the right direction, I think we were making good discussion progress on that point.





Says the person who has a quote of himself insulting another member AS HIS SIGNATURE.

Sep 22 at 3:26:25 PM
DoctorEncore (6)
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Originally posted by: guitarzombie

Originally posted by: DoctorEncore

Originally posted by: guitarzombie

I tip because I feel I have to. I think its stupid and should be done away with completely with all areas. You have to tip your barber, but not this guy, but you tip your door man but not this person? Its RIDICULOUS.



I would prefer if the cost was just baked into the service or product I am purchasing, but the tip factor does encourage better service. Conversely, how about the employer create a monetary reward system to encourage better service? Oh wait, this is America and that would cost more for the business. Let's just pass the cost of paying your employees a living wage directly to the customers!



Good service should be your incentive to KEEP working, else you get fired.  I had this discussion with a bandmate and he said the same thing and I said 'Good!  You'd still end up paying the same and in some restaurants they include it anyway'.


I'm actually a pretty generous tipper (usually at least 20%), but I'm against low wage jobs with "mandatory" tipping because I think it's exploitative. Let's just all agree to a 20% increase in price on everything that currently involves expected tipping, apply guaranteed minimum wage to all jobs, implement a variable minimum wage that ensures everyone earns a living wage based on where they live, and then still encourage tipping for excellent or enjoyable service. This creates a generally level playing field for all employers and employees. Kumbaya.

😁😁😁

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Current Project: NES NTSC CIB Set
Progress: ~550/678

WTB: CIB NES games. PM me if seeking a buyer. CLICK HERE TO SEE MY LIST.

WTB: NIB NES games so I can open them and add to the_wizard_666's Sealed Game Contents forum topic and FAQ @ https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/nes....


Edited: 09/22/2019 at 03:28 PM by DoctorEncore

Sep 22 at 3:26:28 PM
Andy_Bogomil (100)
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Originally posted by: AirVillain

.... If they do this well, they deserve proper compensation...

I'd love to see anyone who works a desk job get out there and hustle for 4-6 hours.

So should I tip a mechanic that changes my tires because I'm 'too lazy' to do it myself? "Working your ass off" is a moot point. Many service jobs are very labour intensive and are not subject to tipping. I'd love to see some of the servers I see shingle a roof on a hot day.

I don't think the non-tippers think service is worthless, they just don't like the arbitrary custom of adding 15-20% to a food order, especially when the quality of service can vary so greatly. Why should it be the customers duty to properly compensate the employee? Having said all this, I don't agree with not tipping at all but it does seem like a weird system that most people just accept it as is.

I'm with Guitarzombie here... I tip a lot of the time because I feel I have to. The funny thing is I think the tip factor encourages better service from people who would probably do a good job anyway (smart/good work ethic). A lot of times it obviously doesn't encourage good service because I routinely get very poor service and therefore the server  feels entitled to a tip for doing the bare minimum (not talking about flair here).  I would rather pay a higher price a ditch tipping altogether and leave it to the restaurant to compensate their employees with a liveable wage.











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Sep 22 at 3:38:20 PM
behemos (126)
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Why are so many people comparing jobs that get paid reasonable wages to servers?

Mechanics get paid. So do doctors. They don't get paid below minimum wage in the hopes that tips will supplement their income. That's why you don't tip them.

But, yeah, people who get paid shit and rely on the kindness of those they serve? Yeah, tip them.

Sep 22 at 3:42:58 PM
kguillemette (13)

(Kyle Guillemette) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: DoctorEncore

Originally posted by: guitarzombie

Originally posted by: DoctorEncore

Originally posted by: guitarzombie

I tip because I feel I have to. I think its stupid and should be done away with completely with all areas. You have to tip your barber, but not this guy, but you tip your door man but not this person? Its RIDICULOUS.



I would prefer if the cost was just baked into the service or product I am purchasing, but the tip factor does encourage better service. Conversely, how about the employer create a monetary reward system to encourage better service? Oh wait, this is America and that would cost more for the business. Let's just pass the cost of paying your employees a living wage directly to the customers!



Good service should be your incentive to KEEP working, else you get fired.  I had this discussion with a bandmate and he said the same thing and I said 'Good!  You'd still end up paying the same and in some restaurants they include it anyway'.


I'm actually a pretty generous tipper (usually at least 20%), but I'm against low wage jobs with "mandatory" tipping because I think it's exploitative. Let's just all agree to a 20% increase in price on everything that currently involves expected tipping, apply guaranteed minimum wage to all jobs, implement a variable minimum wage that ensures everyone earns a living wage based on where they live, and then still encourage tipping for excellent or enjoyable service. This creates a generally level playing field for all employers and employees. Kumbaya.

😁😁😁



the downside with this is it is not as simple as making waiting tables minimum wage. You would need to blow minimum wage out of the water to match the gratuities servers currently get. A quality server can only manage a 6 table section. A beast of a server maybe can handle 10. That beast only works 10 tables because he is the ultimate salesman and can push excellent customer service quite rapidly and is rewarded with a higher commission(tips). Now perhaps restaurants can start pushing commissions in lieu of tips, say a quality wage of 18-20 per hour(this is what it will cost to maintain quality servers that push to maintain and grow a regular clientele) say 2% of total sales or something to that effect.

It's just brainstorming at this point. I would need to crunch numbers and build some spreadsheets, but im guessing a restaurant would need to have a $25 check average to be viable under that business plan.

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Sep 22 at 3:54:17 PM
Brock Landers (61)
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Originally posted by: captmorgandrinker

Originally posted by: Space Jockey

ALL NA MEMBERS: Being condescending and insulting because somebody doesn't agree with you will not make me or others of similar mindset read your posts or attempt to see things from your viewpoint. Rewrite things properly and civilly and I'd be glad to have a discussion about it. Until then I'm going to opt out since I've said my part and won't be listening to personal attacks from people who I thought were better than this.

I want to thank kguillemette for keeping it going in the right direction, I think we were making good discussion progress on that point.





Says the person who has a quote of himself insulting another member AS HIS SIGNATURE.





I read that as a reference to the game, with no insult

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Sep 22 at 3:57:12 PM
behemos (126)
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers

Originally posted by: captmorgandrinker

Originally posted by: Space Jockey

ALL NA MEMBERS: Being condescending and insulting because somebody doesn't agree with you will not make me or others of similar mindset read your posts or attempt to see things from your viewpoint. Rewrite things properly and civilly and I'd be glad to have a discussion about it. Until then I'm going to opt out since I've said my part and won't be listening to personal attacks from people who I thought were better than this.

I want to thank kguillemette for keeping it going in the right direction, I think we were making good discussion progress on that point.





Says the person who has a quote of himself insulting another member AS HIS SIGNATURE.





I read that as a reference to the game, with no insult





Eh, the bigger issue at hand is putting your own quote in your sig.

Sep 22 at 4:50:37 PM
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empire (58)
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I hate tipping. Food service is a bottom of the food chain type job for a reason, it takes about an hour to train for the job, and all you really do is write down what people want, stop in once to see if everything is good, then bring the bill. If you're attractive, you're pretty much automatically a good waitress who will rake in tips even if you're bad at it.

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Sep 22 at 4:56:22 PM
Richardhead (13)
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Originally posted by: empire

I hate tipping. Food service is a bottom of the food chain type job for a reason, it takes about an hour to train for the job, and all you really do is write down what people want, stop in once to see if everything is good, then bring the bill. If you're attractive, you're pretty much automatically a good waitress who will rake in tips even if you're bad at it.

You must go to some pretty shitty places. When I go out and spend money on prepared food, I don’t go to places like chilies, Applebee’s or other low grade places. I wouldn’t call all food service jobs bottom of the food chain jobs. 
Just go somewhere nice sometime. Treat yourself, you deserve it😜
 

Sep 22 at 5:07:52 PM
Andy_Bogomil (100)
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Originally posted by: behemos

Why are so many people comparing jobs that get paid reasonable wages to servers?

Mechanics get paid. So do doctors. They don't get paid below minimum wage in the hopes that tips will supplement their income. That's why you don't tip them.

But, yeah, people who get paid shit and rely on the kindness of those they serve? Yeah, tip them.

I brought up a comparison of other jobs because the argument was brought forth that since servers work hard and I'm lazy that they deserve a tip not really taking wages into context. The argument still boils down to why I'm left to make up the rest of this person's wage just becuase it's custom to pay servers absolute shit wages.

Again, I tip 99% of the time between 15-20%. I even give the kids a few dollars working at the local coffee or sandwich shop because I know even minimum wage sucks and living is expensive. I really have no problem with tipping for good service but I feel that service often doesn't deserve 15% but I'm morally stuck giving them at least 15% or feeling shitty.

I would be curious on cost increase to ditch the tipping custom. There must be information availabe from countries that don't customarily tip instead of working through it from scratch.


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Sep 22 at 5:14:46 PM
Andy_Bogomil (100)
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Originally posted by: Richardhead

Originally posted by: empire

I hate tipping. Food service is a bottom of the food chain type job for a reason, it takes about an hour to train for the job, and all you really do is write down what people want, stop in once to see if everything is good, then bring the bill. If you're attractive, you're pretty much automatically a good waitress who will rake in tips even if you're bad at it.

You must go to some pretty shitty places. When I go out and spend money on prepared food, I don’t go to places like chilies, Applebee’s or other low grade places. I wouldn’t call all food service jobs bottom of the food chain jobs. 
Just go somewhere nice sometime. Treat yourself, you deserve it😜
 



I absolutely avoid a lot of the chain, dine-in restaruants because it's basically fast food with a huge premium and then you often have poor service because they're entry level positions. I don't understand the appeal of these places personally. (Boston Pizza, East Side Marios, Applebee's, Montana's, etc. etc. ).

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Sep 22 at 5:35:55 PM
gunpei (10)
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Originally posted by: Andy_Bogomil


I absolutely avoid a lot of the chain, dine-in restaruants because it's basically fast food with a huge premium and then you often have poor service because they're entry level positions. I don't understand the appeal of these places personally. (Boston Pizza, East Side Marios, Applebee's, Montana's, etc. etc. ).

I can’t believe I’m about to defend Applebee’s. I avoid that kind of place, too. But they are way better food than McDonalds/ Burger King.
I’m not familiar with the other places you mentioned. 
 

Sep 22 at 5:35:57 PM
kguillemette (13)

(Kyle Guillemette) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: empire

I hate tipping. Food service is a bottom of the food chain type job for a reason, it takes about an hour to train for the job, and all you really do is write down what people want, stop in once to see if everything is good, then bring the bill. If you're attractive, you're pretty much automatically a good waitress who will rake in tips even if you're bad at it.



Waiting tables is like Tetris. Simple to learn, difficult to master. Anyone can manage a 2 table section. That server would make no money. Balancing an 8 table section is a lot trickier, but if you can do it, you can make big bucks. It's like level 10 in Tetris.

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Sep 22 at 5:57:49 PM
Andy_Bogomil (100)
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Originally posted by: gunpei
 
Originally posted by: Andy_Bogomil


I absolutely avoid a lot of the chain, dine-in restaruants because it's basically fast food with a huge premium and then you often have poor service because they're entry level positions. I don't understand the appeal of these places personally. (Boston Pizza, East Side Marios, Applebee's, Montana's, etc. etc. ).

I can’t believe I’m about to defend Applebee’s. I avoid that kind of place, too. But they are way better food than McDonalds/ Burger King.
I’m not familiar with the other places you mentioned. 
 


Probably a Canadian thing... not sure which chains make it across the border, if any. I've only eaten Applebee's in the States and it wasn't terrible but not worth the price in my opinion. I'm just not a fan of paying $20+ for a meal that's shipped in a giant white bucket and heated in a microwave or a hamburger that's a frozen pre-formed patty and tastes like nothing. Then you gotta add tip ;P

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Wii U Collection Status: 160/161. Just Dance 2018. 

Sep 22 at 6:10:40 PM
Space Jockey (145)
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( Xenomorph ) < King Solomon >
Posts: 4845 - Joined: 06/03/2012
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers

Originally posted by: captmorgandrinker

Originally posted by: Space Jockey

ALL NA MEMBERS: Being condescending and insulting because somebody doesn't agree with you will not make me or others of similar mindset read your posts or attempt to see things from your viewpoint. Rewrite things properly and civilly and I'd be glad to have a discussion about it. Until then I'm going to opt out since I've said my part and won't be listening to personal attacks from people who I thought were better than this.

I want to thank kguillemette for keeping it going in the right direction, I think we were making good discussion progress on that point.



Says the person who has a quote of himself insulting another member AS HIS SIGNATURE.



I read that as a reference to the game, with no insult


Indeed it is a reference to the game.

Here is the originating thread: http://vintage.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=3...

Here is his response:

Originally posted by: Guntz

Originally posted by: Space Jockey

Originally posted by: Guntz

On a more serious note, I've played EarthBound today for so long, I feel all tense and mentally worn out.

Then you called your mother and felt better?

Ha. Good joke, you got me.


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Originally posted by: Space Jockey
Originally posted by: Guntz
On a more serious note, I've played EarthBound today for so long, I feel all tense and mentally worn out.
Then you called your mother and felt better?

 


Sep 22 at 6:14:06 PM
Richardhead (13)
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< Ridley Wrangler >
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Oh man, you guys better tread lightly. This is how I got a discord mute.😂