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Tech Talk Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement)

May 24, 2016 at 8:17:59 PM
GreatGadon (3)
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(Robert ) < Ridley Wrangler >
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Abnormal and a distraction? There is a nice sticker that comes with it that says "keep calm and don't press down." You put the game in and turn on the power. It works great with no problems and little to no risk of the game crapping out after a long gaming session and you losing your progress. If your guests can't handle put in a game and turn on the power then I wouldn't let them touch my NES to begin with. If it causes a problem for your videos then use a different NES? Or maybe just post a link to the BLW in the summary section of your vids. Aftermarket pins are crapola compared to fixing the original pins and or installing the BLW anyway. If what your listing is your legitimate gripes about having the BLW installed on your system I would take those problems any-day of the week.

May 26, 2016 at 4:07:53 AM
Fists.Of.Fury.187 (0)

< Cherub >
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So I just got my exchange unit back from shipping. It feels the same or maybe even tighter. Also now when using an everdrive I get vertical lines throughout the picture, spaced about 5 cm apart from each other, its faint but noticeable. However, when using a genuine cart those vertical lines don't appear. Anyone have any ideas?

May 26, 2016 at 6:11:16 PM
nicktendo (0)
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< Crack Trooper >
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Originally posted by: Fists.Of.Fury.187

So I just got my exchange unit back from shipping. It feels the same or maybe even tighter. Also now when using an everdrive I get vertical lines throughout the picture, spaced about 5 cm apart from each other, its faint but noticeable. However, when using a genuine cart those vertical lines don't appear. Anyone have any ideas?

I got mine back about a week ago and I feel like it grips a little tighter also. definitely not an improvement. I wish I hadn't sent for a replacement considering it took over 2 months! I was pretty miffed about that. I haven't noticed any vertical lines though when I use my everdrive.
 

Jun 4, 2016 at 12:18:59 AM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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(Alita Jean) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: nicktendo
 
Originally posted by: Fists.Of.Fury.187

So I just got my exchange unit back from shipping. It feels the same or maybe even tighter. Also now when using an everdrive I get vertical lines throughout the picture, spaced about 5 cm apart from each other, its faint but noticeable. However, when using a genuine cart those vertical lines don't appear. Anyone have any ideas?

I got mine back about a week ago and I feel like it grips a little tighter also. definitely not an improvement. I wish I hadn't sent for a replacement considering it took over 2 months! I was pretty miffed about that. I haven't noticed any vertical lines though when I use my everdrive.
 
Everdrive and powerpak pull a bit more load compared to normal carts due to the CLPDs used to emulate the mappers. Check the rating on your AC adapter. Some clone or 3rd party adapters don't put out enough current. You should use something with at least 850mA on the wall plate. But it's likely not a thing related to the BLW itself. 

Sorry about the replacement adapters being still tight as balls. I'm actually glad I never sent mine in. Maybe Ben Heck or someone will create a clever method to fabricate an "edject" lever that sits flush with the lid. Depress the tab and your cart pops out!  

 

-------------------------
~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...

Jun 4, 2016 at 12:23:30 AM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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(Alita Jean) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: Ichinisan

BLW pin modification:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...


The difference isn't too great. I put 2 NES units with BLWs side-by-side (one with the pin modification and one without). The modified one always comes out first when I pull carts with both hands. I'm right-handed, so I switched their positions and tested multiple times both ways. The loosened connector is slightly easier to get out...but it's still hard to notice the difference if you're not testing 2 of them side-by-side like that.
Seriously dude, why do this? Maybe I'll simply cram my modified Game Genie in and let it sit when I'm not using it, or let them "loosen" naturally. You do realise you've disabled the EXP audio, CopyUSB programmer, NWC, and potential future homebrew uses of the exansion pins, all for a barely 20% improvement that's hardly noticeable without a double blind pull test. The creators left them in for a reason: because they were present on the original NES connector!!!  

 

-------------------------
~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...


Edited: 06/04/2016 at 12:27 AM by Kosmic StarDust

Jun 7, 2016 at 7:56:12 PM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
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Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
 
Originally posted by: Ichinisan

BLW pin modification:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...


The difference isn't too great. I put 2 NES units with BLWs side-by-side (one with the pin modification and one without). The modified one always comes out first when I pull carts with both hands. I'm right-handed, so I switched their positions and tested multiple times both ways. The loosened connector is slightly easier to get out...but it's still hard to notice the difference if you're not testing 2 of them side-by-side like that.
Seriously dude, why do this? Maybe I'll simply cram my modified Game Genie in and let it sit when I'm not using it, or let them "loosen" naturally. You do realise you've disabled the EXP audio, CopyUSB programmer, NWC, and potential future homebrew uses of the exansion pins, all for a barely 20% improvement that's hardly noticeable without a double blind pull test. The creators left them in for a reason: because they were present on the original NES connector!!!  

 

"The creators left them there for a reason" - they never actually used them.

The unused NES pins to allocate for expansion audio mods were always not-quite-standard and different devices arbitrarily use different pins for that.

The expansion port was not present on the NES-101 and the clock sync pin wasn't either. This makes it very much like an NES-101, but...

NONE OF THAT MATTERS. It will be modified with Hi-Def NES, which processes ALL game audio on the HDMI board.

Finally, I have 3 or 4 NES systems and 3 BLW units.

How does this break NWC, exactly?


Edited: 06/07/2016 at 08:10 PM by Ichinisan

Jun 7, 2016 at 10:14:10 PM
Great Hierophant (1)
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(Great Hierophant) < Eggplant Wizard >
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The CIC reset line resets the state of the timer on the Official Nintendo World Championships cart, so if unconnected the timer's initial power on state is not guaranteed to be reliable. The result is that an inaccurate time may be used for the game time, and if you pressed reset, the cart may instantly finish the game because the timer has not been reset. The RetroUSB reproduction of the Nintendo World Championships cart uses a different manner to reset its timer, so it is unaffected. The PAL only Nintendo World Cup/Tetris/Super Mario Bros. will not reset to the game menu when you press reset unless you are playing Tetris. In this case you must turn the power on and off again.

I believe the Hi Def NES Mod comes with a CopyNES function installed, so you may have all known bases covered. However, if anyone wanted to use the expansion pins for a new purpose, you may be screwed.

By the way, the cable for the Miracle Piano cart plugs into Controller Port 1, not 2 as I mentioned early in this thread. Thanks to NintendoAge for hosting a scan of the 194 page manual.

Jun 7, 2016 at 11:10:27 PM
Game-Tech-US (53)
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(Jason Rauch) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant


I believe the Hi Def NES Mod comes with a CopyNES function installed.

It doesn't actually. IF Kevin ever finishes that part of it you'll have to add some parts to the cpu interposer or swap it out for one with those parts installed. I think his main hang up is he doesn't want to spend a lot of time on it when so few ppl will want it and is even less likely to rewrite the pc interface for it, but would love it if someone else wanted to tackle it.

Jun 8, 2016 at 5:47:57 AM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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(Alita Jean) < Master Higgins >
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I crammed my modified Genie in again tonight, not to play games but in attempt to loosen the pins. I inserted and removed it several times in rapid succession, before a loud "pop" occured. Nothing but blank screen on cart loads after that. I carefully disassembled everything including the CopyUSB dumper, to check for damage. No visible damage to my BLW, no evidence of burnt chips anywhere, although I discovered a trace that got pulled off the motherboard when I removed the expansion port some time ago. I had difficulty fitting the CopyNES with it in place so I desoldered the sucker. Made it really easy to solder in the wires to my 10k volume pot for expansion audio. Unfortunately my poor desolder job on the connector left a couple pins behind (and one ripped trace, apparently) when I pried it off. I don't know what this trace was for, possibly supplying one of the pins also found on the Famicom accessory port, or could be an unused cart bus pin. Anyway I powered on the NES motherboard with a never used 3rd party replacement connector, inserted a cart, and it worked! So assuming the BLW was busted, also frustrated I could not locate the original loading tray, I reinstalled the BLW one last time and my NES started working again! Didn't even need to pull out the multimeter for continuity testing...  

Moral of story, be extremely careful when inserting a Genie into the BLW. I still don't know what broke, why it quit working, or how simply disassembing the stupid contraption could have fixed the problem...  

-------------------------
~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...


Edited: 06/08/2016 at 05:56 AM by Kosmic StarDust

Jun 8, 2016 at 8:54:52 AM
CZroe (31)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
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Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
 
Originally posted by: Ichinisan

BLW pin modification:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19038986/forum_embed/201...


The difference isn't too great. I put 2 NES units with BLWs side-by-side (one with the pin modification and one without). The modified one always comes out first when I pull carts with both hands. I'm right-handed, so I switched their positions and tested multiple times both ways. The loosened connector is slightly easier to get out...but it's still hard to notice the difference if you're not testing 2 of them side-by-side like that.
Seriously dude, why do this? Maybe I'll simply cram my modified Game Genie in and let it sit when I'm not using it, or let them "loosen" naturally. You do realise you've disabled the EXP audio, CopyUSB programmer, NWC, and potential future homebrew uses of the exansion pins, all for a barely 20% improvement that's hardly noticeable without a double blind pull test. The creators left them in for a reason: because they were present on the original NES connector!!!  

 

That particular NES already had the CIC disabled so NWC's timer was already broken.   Also, the BLW itself circumvents the CIC in a way that likely breaks NWC compatibility in the same way (no CIC reset). The point of the BLW is to make it work as reliably as a top loader. The top loader doesn't have the pins for exp audio, doesn't have a CIC for NWC, and the CPU CLK pin is NC, so this only makes functionality closer: easier to remove while still being just as reliable/functional as the top loader. If you want EXP audio on the top loader NES-101 you have to modify the cart or use Hi-Def NES, just like an NES-001 with this BLW mod.

The average user this is intended for just want's their NES to work reliably and will never use EXP audio, CopyNES, or NWC. We actually let a coworker try it modified and unmodified, explained what he would lose if he chose modified, and he chose modified. I think it's clear that the average user would rather have 20% less grip strength. I'm NOT the average user and even I prefer that.

Sorry to hear that your Game Genie plan didn't quite work out.   
 


Edited: 06/08/2016 at 09:03 AM by CZroe

Jun 8, 2016 at 1:04:14 PM
Bratwurst (79)
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(Meat Meister) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Have been using a Blinking Light Win on a test NES for over a month now, it's supposedly the newer revision connector. By my estimation it's an unreasonably tight grip because of how recessed the cartridge is in the loading bay. In order to remove a cartridge, I have to grip my fingers over the sides of the cart and wiggle back and forth as I pull out.

Probably would have been better if the cartridge didn't load so deeply as the original ZIF connector allowed, you'd then have more leverage at least. Personally I see no advantage with this product over any aftermarket pin connector like the kind you can buy from MCM Electronics, they will load a game just fine so long as you leave the cart in the upright position, and the grip strength is comparable, maybe even not as bad as the BLW because there's a slight angle to it.

Jun 8, 2016 at 3:41:57 PM
darkchylde28 (10)
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(Doug ) < El Ripper >
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Originally posted by: Bratwurst

Personally I see no advantage with this product over any aftermarket pin connector like the kind you can buy from MCM Electronics, they will load a game just fine so long as you leave the cart in the upright position, and the grip strength is comparable, maybe even not as bad as the BLW because there's a slight angle to it.

I can't change your personal opinion but disagree that there isn't any advantage over the current/"new version" BLW than standard aftermarket 72-pin connector replacements.  I bought two aftermarket connectors, each supposedly from a different manufacturer, and they both death grip my games 10x worse than what my BLW does.  Yes, you do initially need to apply a little more force to remove carts from the BLW than you would a standard/OEM connector, but after 5-10 games through mine, I'm able to tug quite a few out by pulling on the "grab tab" built into the cart.  There's still the occasional cart that I have to wiggle from the sides, but the grip the BLW has (either brand new or slightly loosened) is nowhere near as bad as generic aftermarket connectors, in my experience.  Not actively hearing metal on metal squeaking noises & finding new scratches on my games' pins is reason enough for me to be beyond happy with the BLW versus a generic connector.
 

-------------------------
Need Stadium Events + Panesian titles, 6-in-1's, Menace Beach, Moon Ranger & Secret Scout to complete my licensed/unlicensed sets.

If you've got any of the above for sale, hit me up!

Jun 8, 2016 at 3:48:05 PM
Bratwurst (79)
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(Meat Meister) < Eggplant Wizard >
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The aftermarket connectors eventually relax their death grip just as the BLW also will wear in over time, $5-7 vs $30, both are comparable experiences, one is more expensive and not justifiably so.

Jun 8, 2016 at 7:06:31 PM
Great Hierophant (1)
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(Great Hierophant) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Originally posted by: CZroe

That particular NES already had the CIC disabled so NWC's timer was already broken.   Also, the BLW itself circumvents the CIC in a way that likely breaks NWC compatibility in the same way (no CIC reset). The point of the BLW is to make it work as reliably as a top loader. The top loader doesn't have the pins for exp audio, doesn't have a CIC for NWC, and the CPU CLK pin is NC, so this only makes functionality closer: easier to remove while still being just as reliable/functional as the top loader. If you want EXP audio on the top loader NES-101 you have to modify the cart or use Hi-Def NES, just like an NES-001 with this BLW mod.

The average user this is intended for just want's their NES to work reliably and will never use EXP audio, CopyNES, or NWC. We actually let a coworker try it modified and unmodified, explained what he would lose if he chose modified, and he chose modified. I think it's clear that the average user would rather have 20% less grip strength. I'm NOT the average user and even I prefer that.
The average front loader NES owner got rid of his console fifteen to twenty years ago.  Those people with NESes who bought a BLW are already beyond average.  

I agree with you that your average NES owner would not want to install a CopyNES in his system and will never come near an Official Nintendo World Championships cartridge.  But before indisriminately pulling pins and doing irreversible damage to a BLW, they should be made aware of what they are giving up.  The expansion audio will be exceptionally dearly missed once you hear how well it was put to use.  Castlevania 3, Gimmick and to a lesser extent Rolling Thunder sound so much better with expansion audio.

I determined earlier that the BLW does pass the lockout chip's reset signal to the cartridge, its the only one of the four signals it passes to the cartridge, so NWC and the SMB/T/NWC carts should work appropriately.
 


Edited: 06/08/2016 at 07:16 PM by Great Hierophant

Jun 8, 2016 at 8:48:53 PM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant

The CIC reset line resets the state of the timer on the Official Nintendo World Championships cart, so if unconnected the timer's initial power on state is not guaranteed to be reliable. The result is that an inaccurate time may be used for the game time, and if you pressed reset, the cart may instantly finish the game because the timer has not been reset. The RetroUSB reproduction of the Nintendo World Championships cart uses a different manner to reset its timer, so it is unaffected. The PAL only Nintendo World Cup/Tetris/Super Mario Bros. will not reset to the game menu when you press reset unless you are playing Tetris. In this case you must turn the power on and off again.

I believe the Hi Def NES Mod comes with a CopyNES function installed, so you may have all known bases covered. However, if anyone wanted to use the expansion pins for a new purpose, you may be screwed.

By the way, the cable for the Miracle Piano cart plugs into Controller Port 1, not 2 as I mentioned early in this thread. Thanks to NintendoAge for hosting a scan of the 194 page manual.


There's a CIClone chip on the BLW board. The CIC pins of the cart already do not connect to the system if you use BLW.

I thought that was obvious...?

Jun 8, 2016 at 8:52:04 PM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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(Alita Jean) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

That particular NES already had the CIC disabled so NWC's timer was already broken.   Also, the BLW itself circumvents the CIC in a way that likely breaks NWC compatibility in the same way (no CIC reset). The point of the BLW is to make it work as reliably as a top loader. The top loader doesn't have the pins for exp audio, doesn't have a CIC for NWC, and the CPU CLK pin is NC, so this only makes functionality closer: easier to remove while still being just as reliable/functional as the top loader. If you want EXP audio on the top loader NES-101 you have to modify the cart or use Hi-Def NES, just like an NES-001 with this BLW mod.

The average user this is intended for just want's their NES to work reliably and will never use EXP audio, CopyNES, or NWC. We actually let a coworker try it modified and unmodified, explained what he would lose if he chose modified, and he chose modified. I think it's clear that the average user would rather have 20% less grip strength. I'm NOT the average user and even I prefer that.
The average front loader NES owner got rid of his console fifteen to twenty years ago.  Those people with NESes who bought a BLW are already beyond average.  

I agree with you that your average NES owner would not want to install a CopyNES in his system and will never come near an Official Nintendo World Championships cartridge.  But before indisriminately pulling pins and doing irreversible damage to a BLW, they should be made aware of what they are giving up.  The expansion audio will be exceptionally dearly missed once you hear how well it was put to use.  Castlevania 3, Gimmick and to a lesser extent Rolling Thunder sound so much better with expansion audio.

I determined earlier that the BLW does pass the lockout chip's reset signal to the cartridge, its the only one of the four signals it passes to the cartridge, so NWC and the SMB/T/NWC carts should work appropriately.
 
This. You can do what you want to your own personal system, but I would prefer to leave mine stock as they aren't hurting anything. And I don't think you should be pulling pins from the BLW and selling them to customers without full disclosure. Should they decide to get a PowerPak and mod their system in the future, they'll be in for a rude awakening.

And yes I got the NES working again. Loading and unloading the carts with the NES lid off clearly gave me an indication that the "death grip" is not so severe and in fact the cart loader really doesn't grip any more tightly than my SNES (when not using the edject tab) or AV Famicom. The problem is there's only about 3/8 inches of cart to grab, and for those of us with large man fingers, gripping the thumb tab is almost impossible. It would be neat if someone could fabricate an eject tab similar to what the SNES had, but I can't imagine such a device would work without cutting up the case plastics.

A better mod for the BLW if you wanna go "stock" would be to remove the CIC and jumper the four pins together. Then you still get the benefit of "blinking screen" when attempting to play an out of region or just simply stubborn/dirty cart. Not sure why anyone would want to as I have no nostalgia for that shite.  
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

Sorry to hear that your Game Genie plan didn't quite work out.   
 
It's okay; the situation fixed itself and my NES is reading carts again. Fortunately there is zero evidence of pin damage anywhere. I still don't know what was up with the blank screen issue, but disassembly and reassembly apparently fixed whatever was wrong. I would advice extreme caution and very gentle insertion if using a modified Game Genie.

I also once trashed a "junk" 3rd party pin connector with a Genie, but I think that particular specimen was just faulty. After fixing the damaged pins, a couple more pins got bent a few days later, this time using it with a normal cart. Attempting to fix them failed, pins broken off inside, and I ended up buying two more replacement connectors from another source. The next one lasted me until I installed the BLW last year, but it wasn't super reliable either. Sometimes the cassette tape or CD jewel case holding the tray at half mast was still needed, or I just used my AV Famicom with a pin adapter.

-------------------------
~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...


Edited: 06/08/2016 at 08:55 PM by Kosmic StarDust

Jun 8, 2016 at 8:56:54 PM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
Posts: 3718 - Joined: 04/08/2015
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

That particular NES already had the CIC disabled so NWC's timer was already broken.   Also, the BLW itself circumvents the CIC in a way that likely breaks NWC compatibility in the same way (no CIC reset). The point of the BLW is to make it work as reliably as a top loader. The top loader doesn't have the pins for exp audio, doesn't have a CIC for NWC, and the CPU CLK pin is NC, so this only makes functionality closer: easier to remove while still being just as reliable/functional as the top loader. If you want EXP audio on the top loader NES-101 you have to modify the cart or use Hi-Def NES, just like an NES-001 with this BLW mod.

The average user this is intended for just want's their NES to work reliably and will never use EXP audio, CopyNES, or NWC. We actually let a coworker try it modified and unmodified, explained what he would lose if he chose modified, and he chose modified. I think it's clear that the average user would rather have 20% less grip strength. I'm NOT the average user and even I prefer that.
The average front loader NES owner got rid of his console fifteen to twenty years ago.  Those people with NESes who bought a BLW are already beyond average.  

I agree with you that your average NES owner would not want to install a CopyNES in his system and will never come near an Official Nintendo World Championships cartridge.  But before indisriminately pulling pins and doing irreversible damage to a BLW, they should be made aware of what they are giving up.  The expansion audio will be exceptionally dearly missed once you hear how well it was put to use.  Castlevania 3, Gimmick and to a lesser extent Rolling Thunder sound so much better with expansion audio.

I determined earlier that the BLW does pass the lockout chip's reset signal to the cartridge, its the only one of the four signals it passes to the cartridge, so NWC and the SMB/T/NWC carts should work appropriately.
 

I made it more like a top-loader NES-101, which has no CIC lockout at all. I knew exactly what I was doing and what I would "lose" (lose nothing that isn't already lost on NES-101).

Not only do I have a third BLW (no modification), I have multiple NES-001 units, an NES-101, and a Twin Famicom AN-505-BK...and that last one is everything I'll ever need for authentic expansion audio.
 


Edited: 06/08/2016 at 08:58 PM by Ichinisan

Jun 8, 2016 at 8:58:09 PM
Great Hierophant (1)
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(Great Hierophant) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Originally posted by: Ichinisan
 
Originally posted by: Great Hierophant

The CIC reset line resets the state of the timer on the Official Nintendo World Championships cart, so if unconnected the timer's initial power on state is not guaranteed to be reliable. The result is that an inaccurate time may be used for the game time, and if you pressed reset, the cart may instantly finish the game because the timer has not been reset. The RetroUSB reproduction of the Nintendo World Championships cart uses a different manner to reset its timer, so it is unaffected. The PAL only Nintendo World Cup/Tetris/Super Mario Bros. will not reset to the game menu when you press reset unless you are playing Tetris. In this case you must turn the power on and off again.

I believe the Hi Def NES Mod comes with a CopyNES function installed, so you may have all known bases covered. However, if anyone wanted to use the expansion pins for a new purpose, you may be screwed.

By the way, the cable for the Miracle Piano cart plugs into Controller Port 1, not 2 as I mentioned early in this thread. Thanks to NintendoAge for hosting a scan of the 194 page manual.


There's a CIClone chip on the BLW board. The CIC pins of the cart already do not connect to the system if you use BLW.

I thought that was obvious...?

Pin 70 is connected on the cartridge end of the BLW, pins 34, 35 and 71 are not.  Pin 70 is the CIC reset line.  I guess it is pretty obvious : https://www.arcadeworks.net/image...

 

Jun 8, 2016 at 9:00:47 PM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant
 
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
 
Originally posted by: Great Hierophant

The CIC reset line resets the state of the timer on the Official Nintendo World Championships cart, so if unconnected the timer's initial power on state is not guaranteed to be reliable. The result is that an inaccurate time may be used for the game time, and if you pressed reset, the cart may instantly finish the game because the timer has not been reset. The RetroUSB reproduction of the Nintendo World Championships cart uses a different manner to reset its timer, so it is unaffected. The PAL only Nintendo World Cup/Tetris/Super Mario Bros. will not reset to the game menu when you press reset unless you are playing Tetris. In this case you must turn the power on and off again.

I believe the Hi Def NES Mod comes with a CopyNES function installed, so you may have all known bases covered. However, if anyone wanted to use the expansion pins for a new purpose, you may be screwed.

By the way, the cable for the Miracle Piano cart plugs into Controller Port 1, not 2 as I mentioned early in this thread. Thanks to NintendoAge for hosting a scan of the 194 page manual.


There's a CIClone chip on the BLW board. The CIC pins of the cart already do not connect to the system if you use BLW.

I thought that was obvious...?

Pin 70 is connected on the cartridge end of the BLW, pins 34, 35 and 71 are not.  Pin 70 is the CIC reset line.  I guess it is pretty obvious : https://www.arcadeworks.net/image/data/blinking_light_win_ni...

 


If I ever own an authentic NWC, I'll use one of my other NES units that has no BLW (and one that didn't already have the CIC disabled).

[edit]

This one shows the CIC lines I de-soldered have no traces going to them:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com...


Edited: 06/08/2016 at 09:27 PM by Ichinisan

Jun 8, 2016 at 9:14:11 PM
Great Hierophant (1)
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(Great Hierophant) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Actually, I was mistaken. The BLW's photo showed the connector upside down!  Jason's video here :



has good enough closeups of the BLW to show that it doesn't connect any pins from the lockout chip on either side of its PCB. The pins that do run to the cartridge connector and intersect with the lockout chip pins are +5v and ground.

However, it would be easy enough to fix the issue by soldering a wire from pin 70 on the mainboard connector to pin 70 on the cartridge connector on the BLW.  


Edited: 06/08/2016 at 09:19 PM by Great Hierophant

Jun 8, 2016 at 11:12:46 PM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant

Actually, I was mistaken. The BLW's photo showed the connector upside down!  Jason's video here :

 
allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="280" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iJz..." width="500">>

has good enough closeups of the BLW to show that it doesn't connect any pins from the lockout chip on either side of its PCB. The pins that do run to the cartridge connector and intersect with the lockout chip pins are +5v and ground.

However, it would be easy enough to fix the issue by soldering a wire from pin 70 on the mainboard connector to pin 70 on the cartridge connector on the BLW.  
The reset line exists, and is the only one. It is on the other side of the connector. There are traces on the front side (that accepts the cart slots) as well, like due to interferance from the CiC board getting in the way.

EDIT: After careful examination of the BLW, I stand corrected.
 

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~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...


Edited: 06/09/2016 at 12:38 AM by Kosmic StarDust

Jun 8, 2016 at 11:30:00 PM
Great Hierophant (1)
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(Great Hierophant) < Eggplant Wizard >
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Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
The reset line exists, and is the only one. It is on the other side of the connector. There are traces on the front side (that accepts the cart slots) as well, like due to interferance from the CiC board getting in the way.

 
I see the lines on the front side of the BLW but it is impossible to tell for sure which lines go where without a continuity tester.  Since I have neither a BLW or a multimeter, I cannot say for sure which lines go to the cartridge.  I believe that the three lines on the CIC side are +5v, GND and +5v.  Given that one line goes to either side of an IC decoupling capacitor and that the Kevtris CIClone pinout given here makes sense : http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.ph..., I would suggest that the reset line goes nowhere other than pin 5 of the chip.

 


Edited: 06/08/2016 at 11:30 PM by Great Hierophant

Jun 9, 2016 at 2:30:43 AM
CZroe (31)
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Originally posted by: Great Hierophant
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

That particular NES already had the CIC disabled so NWC's timer was already broken.   Also, the BLW itself circumvents the CIC in a way that likely breaks NWC compatibility in the same way (no CIC reset). The point of the BLW is to make it work as reliably as a top loader. The top loader doesn't have the pins for exp audio, doesn't have a CIC for NWC, and the CPU CLK pin is NC, so this only makes functionality closer: easier to remove while still being just as reliable/functional as the top loader. If you want EXP audio on the top loader NES-101 you have to modify the cart or use Hi-Def NES, just like an NES-001 with this BLW mod.

The average user this is intended for just want's their NES to work reliably and will never use EXP audio, CopyNES, or NWC. We actually let a coworker try it modified and unmodified, explained what he would lose if he chose modified, and he chose modified. I think it's clear that the average user would rather have 20% less grip strength. I'm NOT the average user and even I prefer that.
The average front loader NES owner got rid of his console fifteen to twenty years ago.  Those people with NESes who bought a BLW are already beyond average.  

I agree with you that your average NES owner would not want to install a CopyNES in his system and will never come near an Official Nintendo World Championships cartridge.  But before indisriminately pulling pins and doing irreversible damage to a BLW, they should be made aware of what they are giving up.  The expansion audio will be exceptionally dearly missed once you hear how well it was put to use.  Castlevania 3, Gimmick and to a lesser extent Rolling Thunder sound so much better with expansion audio.

I determined earlier that the BLW does pass the lockout chip's reset signal to the cartridge, its the only one of the four signals it passes to the cartridge, so NWC and the SMB/T/NWC carts should work appropriately.
 
Yeah, but I said "the average user this is intended for," which is already limited to today's "above average" users who would buy this. I chose my words deliberately: The Kickstarter campaign goal specifically stated that they wanted to make something that "effectively makes the toaster NES a side-loading top-loader." Their exact words. They specifically disabled the CIC with the BLW, so NWC was never a consideration while duplicating the reliability of the toploader was.

Of course we are aware of what we are giving up. The pins were identified, the pros/cons laid out, and the decision was made. Every user has their choice/priorities. It's always been the user's call, so I'm baffled that anyone is reacting like the mod is being forced on unsuspecting users. A user can buy two BLWs and keep one stock if they want, just like we did. If a user could jumper a wire for CIC reset or add expansion audio then they could certainly replace a modified connector.

 


Edited: 08/13/2016 at 02:05 PM by CZroe

Jun 9, 2016 at 3:14:43 AM
CZroe (31)
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Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
 
Originally posted by: Great Hierophant
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

That particular NES already had the CIC disabled so NWC's timer was already broken.   Also, the BLW itself circumvents the CIC in a way that likely breaks NWC compatibility in the same way (no CIC reset). The point of the BLW is to make it work as reliably as a top loader. The top loader doesn't have the pins for exp audio, doesn't have a CIC for NWC, and the CPU CLK pin is NC, so this only makes functionality closer: easier to remove while still being just as reliable/functional as the top loader. If you want EXP audio on the top loader NES-101 you have to modify the cart or use Hi-Def NES, just like an NES-001 with this BLW mod.

The average user this is intended for just want's their NES to work reliably and will never use EXP audio, CopyNES, or NWC. We actually let a coworker try it modified and unmodified, explained what he would lose if he chose modified, and he chose modified. I think it's clear that the average user would rather have 20% less grip strength. I'm NOT the average user and even I prefer that.
The average front loader NES owner got rid of his console fifteen to twenty years ago.  Those people with NESes who bought a BLW are already beyond average.  

I agree with you that your average NES owner would not want to install a CopyNES in his system and will never come near an Official Nintendo World Championships cartridge.  But before indisriminately pulling pins and doing irreversible damage to a BLW, they should be made aware of what they are giving up.  The expansion audio will be exceptionally dearly missed once you hear how well it was put to use.  Castlevania 3, Gimmick and to a lesser extent Rolling Thunder sound so much better with expansion audio.

I determined earlier that the BLW does pass the lockout chip's reset signal to the cartridge, its the only one of the four signals it passes to the cartridge, so NWC and the SMB/T/NWC carts should work appropriately.
 
This. You can do what you want to your own personal system, but I would prefer to leave mine stock as they aren't hurting anything. And I don't think you should be pulling pins from the BLW and selling them to customers without full disclosure. Should they decide to get a PowerPak and mod their system in the future, they'll be in for a rude awakening.

And yes I got the NES working again. Loading and unloading the carts with the NES lid off clearly gave me an indication that the "death grip" is not so severe and in fact the cart loader really doesn't grip any more tightly than my SNES (when not using the edject tab) or AV Famicom. The problem is there's only about 3/8 inches of cart to grab, and for those of us with large man fingers, gripping the thumb tab is almost impossible. It would be neat if someone could fabricate an eject tab similar to what the SNES had, but I can't imagine such a device would work without cutting up the case plastics.

A better mod for the BLW if you wanna go "stock" would be to remove the CIC and jumper the four pins together. Then you still get the benefit of "blinking screen" when attempting to play an out of region or just simply stubborn/dirty cart. Not sure why anyone would want to as I have no nostalgia for that shite.  
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

Sorry to hear that your Game Genie plan didn't quite work out.   
 
It's okay; the situation fixed itself and my NES is reading carts again. Fortunately there is zero evidence of pin damage anywhere. I still don't know what was up with the blank screen issue, but disassembly and reassembly apparently fixed whatever was wrong. I would advice extreme caution and very gentle insertion if using a modified Game Genie.

I also once trashed a "junk" 3rd party pin connector with a Genie, but I think that particular specimen was just faulty. After fixing the damaged pins, a couple more pins got bent a few days later, this time using it with a normal cart. Attempting to fix them failed, pins broken off inside, and I ended up buying two more replacement connectors from another source. The next one lasted me until I installed the BLW last year, but it wasn't super reliable either. Sometimes the cassette tape or CD jewel case holding the tray at half mast was still needed, or I just used my AV Famicom with a pin adapter.
We did do what we wanted to our personal system and our coworker tested modded/unmodded BLWs side-by-side and wanted the same mod on his. You say we can do that to our own systems but you're having some vehement reaction/objection to it anyway, even describing some "customer" issue that doesn't exist. Where did THAT come from?! We are just two guys on the Internet who were annoyed by the same issue every other BLW user was having so we decided to show/share what we did to lessen the issue for us. Neither installing an unmodified BLW nor modding for expansion audio is leaving yours stock, so I'm even more confused if this is your stated reason to object.

I've been using the modified newer revision BLW with 20% of the pins removed for months now and it's still annoyingly tight. Still, it's much easier than my unmodified newer revision BLW, so I would not say that the unused pins are not hurting anything: they are measurably harming ease of use/removal. I don't know anyone who would be capable of modding the system for expansion audio for use with a Power Pak who is also somehow unable to put in the connector of their choice, so this disappointingly-stuck-with-it situation does not sound like a real scenario to me at all. They can buy two and modify one, just like we did. It's not like replacement connectors have disappeared from the market and I don't know where this weird concern about unsuspecting users comes from. Who removes the pins without reading about what they are for first?! No one did it to unsuspecting users and no one encouraged clueless users to do it. Objecting to people doing this is a bit like objecting to users buying a toploader.

Before I removed the CPU CLK pin, I read that it was NC on the toploader and only used by the CopyNES. Though I am interested in a CopyNES or a HiDef NES with CopyNES functions, I have a Kazoo dumper and a spare unmodified BLW I can use. I made the rational, reasoned, decision to remove that pin. I made the rational, reasoned, decision to remove every unused EXP pin too: I will be getting digital expansion audio from HiDef NES which has no use for the analog audio muxing on EXP pins. Even if I weren't, I prefer the external mixing cable mod for expansion audio so that I can use the pak in my AV-modded toploader and still get expansion audio. I have other options as well (spare NES-001, Famicom with 72-pin adapter, etc). Furthermore, I made the rational, reasoned, decision to remove the CIC pins, since they so obviously did not connect to anything anyway, the CIClone was built-in, and the console already had the CIC disabled. I did know that the NWC cart needs the CIC, though I did not know why. Even so, I would never put an NWC into a BLW. Sure, the issue is more "not enough grip to easily remove" than "death grip makes removal difficult," but they can't even design the carraige in a way that doesn't snag and I wouldn't trust an expensive trophy like that in one.

FWIW, I used the Game Genie with my modded BLW extensively. At first I thought the pressure on the door was abnormal until I read the GG manual and saw that it does that on an unmodified NES as well. I even daisy-chained them! No, I wasn't cheating. I was putting in patches that fix the black color value in The Immortal.   It may be that this mod improves Game Genie compatibility as well.  


Edited: 08/13/2016 at 02:04 PM by CZroe

Jun 9, 2016 at 1:25:55 PM
darkchylde28 (10)
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Originally posted by: Bratwurst

The aftermarket connectors eventually relax their death grip just as the BLW also will wear in over time, $5-7 vs $30, both are comparable experiences, one is more expensive and not justifiably so.

I'd say the BLW not scratching the hell out of my carts' pins is worth it.  Especially given the reports that most aftermarket connectors fail in some way relatively quickly if used regularly.  No such issues out of my BLW after a couple months' use.
 

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