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Tech Talk Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit! Kevtris comes up with a winner!

Jul 30, 2016 at 9:19:55 AM
Game-Tech-US (53)
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(Jason Rauch) < Eggplant Wizard >
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I'll share my email response since this line of thought seems to keep going here:
Customers and their modders can do whatever they want, if they want to start on the mod work now to speed up install time when kits do arrive that's fine and prolly a great idea (if the customer can live without the console for longer time).
But no if it's not installed completely by a referral list modder it will not be under warranty, same issues still apply for esd and skill etc.
I def do not recommend any kind of extra quick disconnect connectors, mostly for added possible faults, but also added cost and complexity. Soldering the wires direct is simple and robust and no clearance issues either.

Further thoughts I didn't share yet. This is not my decision, it's not my kit, it's Kevtris's kit, if he wants to do it then we'll do it.
I've always tried to stay neutral to customers wants/needs, even when I do have an opinion on the issue.
More importantly, how many end users are really going to want to have the option to finish the install on their own? I really doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.
I also don't think it will sell more pre assembled interposers as that's usually just a time saver option for ppl doing a full DIY install that don't mind soldering a couple power wires.
Also if the modder doesn't have a main board to work with now it's pretty hard to get the hdmi hole filed out right. Also, the front loader mount hole will be different on this rev.

So yeah this idea is just to save time, but like I said above you can already send your console to your modder and he can mostly prep it now and save you both time when he gets kits and can finish the install.
That's still a great idea in my head! As long as the customer can live without the console for a longer time, it's a win/win.
If he preps it and sends it back to the end user to do a finish up install it still won't be working as the 7805 will still have to be removed. So you still lose play time...

Jul 30, 2016 at 1:57:43 PM
CZroe (31)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
Posts: 6522 - Joined: 08/25/2014
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Originally posted by: Game-Tech-US

I'll share my email response since this line of thought seems to keep going here:
Customers and their modders can do whatever they want, if they want to start on the mod work now to speed up install time when kits do arrive that's fine and prolly a great idea (if the customer can live without the console for longer time).
But no if it's not installed completely by a referral list modder it will not be under warranty, same issues still apply for esd and skill etc.
I def do not recommend any kind of extra quick disconnect connectors, mostly for added possible faults, but also added cost and complexity. Soldering the wires direct is simple and robust and no clearance issues either.

Further thoughts I didn't share yet. This is not my decision, it's not my kit, it's Kevtris's kit, if he wants to do it then we'll do it.
I've always tried to stay neutral to customers wants/needs, even when I do have an opinion on the issue.
More importantly, how many end users are really going to want to have the option to finish the install on their own? I really doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.
I also don't think it will sell more pre assembled interposers as that's usually just a time saver option for ppl doing a full DIY install that don't mind soldering a couple power wires.
Also if the modder doesn't have a main board to work with now it's pretty hard to get the hdmi hole filed out right. Also, the front loader mount hole will be different on this rev.

So yeah this idea is just to save time, but like I said above you can already send your console to your modder and he can mostly prep it now and save you both time when he gets kits and can finish the install.
That's still a great idea in my head! As long as the customer can live without the console for a longer time, it's a win/win.
If he preps it and sends it back to the end user to do a finish up install it still won't be working as the 7805 will still have to be removed. So you still lose play time...
Ah! I was originally asking if the mount hole had been moved specifically because I was thinking that installers could use a wave 1 kit for the testing, alignment, and cutting, like I would do with mine if I were doing this. Thanks for the clarification!

Yeah, it's Kevtris' kit but I assumed you were the one doing the orders, options (cap kit, LED, preassembled interposers), and shipping. I figured that a pre-attached power lead would be just like pre-assembled interposers and, thus, something your side of the operation would handle.

As for lost play time, I can't be the only end user who has multiple NES consoles, can I?   It seems that most willing to drop the cash would and the few that would present another profit opportunity for the installer: charge extra for making a 7805 disconnect... but, like you said, it's more opportunity for problems.

This definitely answers more of my questions and puts the nail in the coffin for that idea anyway. Thanks! I do wonder if there's possibly still an installer market for the cutting and desoldering parts of the installation even though the end user would have to be able to use a soldering iron. Because "people who can solder a power lead but might have trouble with the CPU/PPU" represent varied levels of proficiency, an installer could probably offer different levels of prep for varying prices like desolder; desolder and socket; desolder, socket, and cut; desolder, socket, cut, and restore normal functionality; etc.

 


Edited: 07/30/2016 at 01:58 PM by CZroe

Jul 30, 2016 at 2:16:19 PM
Kosmic StarDust (44)
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(Alita Jean) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: CZroe


This definitely answers more of my questions and puts the nail in the coffin for that idea anyway. Thanks! I do wonder if there's possibly still an installer market for the cutting and desoldering parts of the installation even though the end user would have to be able to use a soldering iron. Because "people who can solder a power lead but might have trouble with the CPU/PPU" represent varied levels of proficiency, an installer could probably offer different levels of prep for varying prices like desolder; desolder and socket; desolder, socket, and cut; desolder, socket, cut, and restore normal functionality; etc.

 
I get your point, but I think it would only create more headaches in the long run for everyone involved by not having the entire job performed by one installer. You'd think soldering two contact wires is easy for most but I remember one user who botched up his NES by splattering solder everywhere just trying to install the 47k resistor for the Powerpak audio mod. Somebody offered to buy his NES for the costnof shipping to try and repair it or salvage the parts. Fact remains there are customers out there who have no business using a soldering iron, even for the simplest of mods or repairs.

-------------------------
~From the Nintendo/Atari addict formerly known as StarDust4Ever...


Edited: 07/30/2016 at 02:18 PM by Kosmic StarDust

Jul 30, 2016 at 2:42:54 PM
CZroe (31)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
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Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
 
Originally posted by: CZroe


This definitely answers more of my questions and puts the nail in the coffin for that idea anyway. Thanks! I do wonder if there's possibly still an installer market for the cutting and desoldering parts of the installation even though the end user would have to be able to use a soldering iron. Because "people who can solder a power lead but might have trouble with the CPU/PPU" represent varied levels of proficiency, an installer could probably offer different levels of prep for varying prices like desolder; desolder and socket; desolder, socket, and cut; desolder, socket, cut, and restore normal functionality; etc.

 
I get your point, but I think it would only create more headaches in the long run for everyone involved by not having the entire job performed by one installer. You'd think soldering two contact wires is easy for most but I remember one user who botched up his NES by splattering solder everywhere just trying to install the 47k resistor for the Powerpak audio mod. Somebody offered to buy his NES for the costnof shipping to try and repair it or salvage the parts. Fact remains there are customers out there who have no business using a soldering iron, even for the simplest of mods or repairs.
Yep... and the kit is available to them in full! Scary. That's why "no warranty" for DIY is appropriate. I'm just wondering if more options could help more people stay within their comfort zones and address some of the demand early.


Edited: 07/30/2016 at 02:46 PM by CZroe

Aug 3, 2016 at 5:58:16 PM
Muramasa (18)
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(Muramasa TheNinja) < Crack Trooper >
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Any updates on the included Copynes? Haven't seen it mentioned in a while.

Aug 6, 2016 at 1:36:20 AM
CZroe (31)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
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I had a bad CPU/PPU so I replaced them. They were the same revision as the originals: G. Replacing them fixed the problem I was having (B&W composite/RF output) but now I none of the despeckle options work. I get severe speckles in Double Dragon no matter which phase I use.

Any insight into this? Should I just try yet another CPU/PPU? I'm pretty sure Phase 1 worked for the bad CPU/PPU but the Hi-Def NES would blank every now and then in that game as a result of whatever was causing the B&W analog out.

The original problem was probably the same one Jason/GameTech diagnosed on a top-loader, though this was a front-loader. In that case voltage was low (4v) when using a DC PSU and normal (5v) with an AC PSU. The CPU eventually gave up the ghost and replacing it restored 5v regardless of the PSU used. It seems that the PPU was also damaged earlier (as a result of the low operating voltage?) resulting in no clock signal and B&W graphics. I didn't have a scope to check my clock and would have checked the voltage today except that I can't get my CPU/PPU chips to work when directly plugged into the sockets left behind by Hi-Def NES (they work fine in the interposers but with Hi-Def NES supplying the power my measurements wouldn't mean much).


Edited: 08/06/2016 at 01:44 AM by CZroe

Aug 7, 2016 at 1:00:03 PM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
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Trying to avoid spoilers for the Ninja Gaiden ending...

In Ninja Gaiden, when the "camera" flies around Ryu after beating the "masked devil" and experiencing another personal loss. It stops on Ryu's grimacing face and the whole screen flashes as he threatens the Jaquio ("your day has come").

With Hi-Def NES, the flashing shows some horizontal and vertical rectangles that aren't there with analog output.

I recorded a couple videos to compare.


Edited: 08/07/2016 at 01:00 PM by Ichinisan

Aug 7, 2016 at 1:19:47 PM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
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Both frames from that flashing screen...

The first 2 screenshots are from unmodified NES.
The second 2 screenshots are from Hi-Def NES.

I've played through Ninja Gaiden 4 times to verify that it happens on every TV I've tested.

 
That was an unmodified NES.

Here's the flashing screen with Hi-Def NES.
 


Edited: 12/23/2016 at 08:40 AM by Ichinisan

Sep 19, 2016 at 7:04:52 PM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
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Can anyone test Duck Hunt to see if the dog barks only once instead of 3 times at the start? You can press Start on controller 1 to start the game. I was using a single-game Duck Hunt 5-screw cartridge.

I had analog connected at the same time and the analog TV plays all 3 bark sounds. By the way, the Zapper kinda works if you point it at the analog CRT.

2 barks are missing via digital/HDMI audio, even when I tested with my Elgato Game Capture HD -- so I know it'a not just my TV. Still does it when analog is completely disconnected.

Sep 20, 2016 at 12:23:18 AM
CZroe (31)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
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To elaborate on the "Zapper kinda works" thing:
I couldn't start a game by shooting at the screen (analog screen doesn't flash) but I could shoot ducks/clay pigeons. When using the digital and analog outputs simultaneously, the analog output is totally black except for solid white sprites. Luckily, you still get the white box when you fire and the Zapper picks it up perfectly.

I wonder if I could get an old analog projector next to a digital projector polarize the light differently for each with opposing filters, and put a polarized filter matching the analog projector over the Zapper lens to make this work. Might have to wear polarized glasses to keep the white alalog sprites from significantly washing out the color digital sprites, but I think it could work!

Now, I understand that no one is really going to be playing Duck Hunt on their Hi-Def NES, but I'd really like to know if someone else can duplicate the missing PCM dog bark issue before I bring it up with Kevtris/GameTech. I'm sure it affects other games too. Unlike the Ninja Gaiden glitch this one should be super easy to test/confirm.


Edited: 09/20/2016 at 12:31 AM by CZroe

Sep 20, 2016 at 10:48:37 PM
CZroe (31)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
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Anybody?



Sep 20, 2016 at 11:35:56 PM
CZroe (31)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
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Also wanted to point out that only the 680x480 DVI mode Hi-Def NES signal is compatible with my Sony KV-32HS510 even though 720p should be supported. I was hoping the TV would at least stretch to non-square pixels, but it doesn't.   It's an AMAZING TV for retro games but, well, it's just not great with Hi-Def NES over DVI. I'd love to see it take a 240p signal over component, so I'm eagerly awaiting word on those options. No idea why 720p doesn't work. I tested it with a PlayStation 3 set to 720p and that works fine.

Originally I thought it was completely incompatible but I did some tweaking to get it working this much. Most HDTVs of the era only support one of two HD resolutions (720p or 1080i) but this supports both, but one is incompatible with the Hi-Def NES and the other is a mode Hi-Def NES doesn't even offer.   I wouldn't expect 540p in a 1080i signal with scan lines to work well through the image scaler so I can't fault it for not including such an option, but there were some native 1080i analog CRT HDTVs back then. Having DVI/HDMI obviously breaks the "native analog" part, so I couldn't expect it to work any better on one of those.

I haven't tested on my Sony KV-30XBR910 yet but I expect it to have the same issue (almost like a widescreen version of this TV). It should also support 480i, 480p, 576p, 720p, and 1080i. Supposedly 576p bypasses the internal scaler, so I'd love to test Zapper compatibility of the Hi-Def NES supported that resolution.


Edited: 09/21/2016 at 08:01 PM by CZroe

Nov 7, 2016 at 6:12:29 PM
Cmoser73 (0)

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When using an elgato Game Capture HD with the modded NES i don't get any audio. When it is not run through the capture card it works great. I have tried different HDMI cables, however that has not worked. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Nov 7, 2016 at 6:36:49 PM
darkchylde28 (10)
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(Doug ) < El Ripper >
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Originally posted by: Cmoser73

When using an elgato Game Capture HD with the modded NES i don't get any audio. When it is not run through the capture card it works great. I have tried different HDMI cables, however that has not worked. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Are you getting audio when trying to capture anything else?  If you haven't tested anything else yet, you'll want to make sure that it's not an issue with the capture device and/or its software settings before trying to troubleshoot out the NES.  As for what might be wrong with the NES, I couldn't tell you if it's outputting fine when not trying to capture gameplay.

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Need Stadium Events + Panesian titles, 6-in-1's, Menace Beach, Moon Ranger & Secret Scout to complete my licensed/unlicensed sets.

If you've got any of the above for sale, hit me up!

Nov 7, 2016 at 6:46:27 PM
Cmoser73 (0)

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It's worked for my other HDMI systems, i have not tested it for any of the older consoles.  I don't get audio from the computer or the TV once the card is hooked up 

Nov 8, 2016 at 5:49:51 AM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
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I have the same capture device. I will test...

Dec 23, 2016 at 8:16:30 AM
Mobiusstriptech (22)
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< Meka Chicken >
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Just wanted to introduce myself and let anyone following this thread know that if you are looking for an experienced installer for the Hi-Def NES kit please contact me. I should have some YouTube videos up after the next batch comes in. For now I have a few consoles torn down and waiting.

-------------------------
For mod work and questions email us at [email protected]

Twitter: @mobiusstriptech

Youtube: MobiusStripTech

Website: https://www.mobiusstriptechnologi...

Dec 23, 2016 at 8:33:38 AM
Ichinisan (29)
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< King Solomon >
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Will there be a new firmware?


Edited: 12/23/2016 at 08:34 AM by Ichinisan

Jan 8, 2017 at 7:36:13 PM
Mobiusstriptech (22)
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< Meka Chicken >
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For anyone that hasn't heard yet. The boards are shipped from china. So the new kits should be coming in the next 2-3 weeks, if all goes well. This time around Dual Wip sockets are going to be used instead of the round machine pins.

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For mod work and questions email us at [email protected]

Twitter: @mobiusstriptech

Youtube: MobiusStripTech

Website: https://www.mobiusstriptechnologi...

Jan 12, 2017 at 12:54:37 PM
Mobiusstriptech (22)
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< Meka Chicken >
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GameTechUS posted on his site that the main boards are being programmed by Kevtris and he should be going to get the interposers and kits in the near future. More Hi-Def NES goodness will be coming our way soon.

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For mod work and questions email us at [email protected]

Twitter: @mobiusstriptech

Youtube: MobiusStripTech

Website: https://www.mobiusstriptechnologi...

Jan 16, 2017 at 4:55:32 AM
Xtrasmiley (1)

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Originally posted by: Ichinisan

Will there be a new firmware?


I'm wondering this too. Especially with updated (or additional) palette choices.

Jan 16, 2017 at 5:33:43 AM
Mobiusstriptech (22)
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< Meka Chicken >
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I haven't heard anything about a new firmware. Kevtris and Game-Tech are the only ones who know the answer to that and since they haven't said anything either it hasn't been announced yet, or there isn't one.

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For mod work and questions email us at [email protected]

Twitter: @mobiusstriptech

Youtube: MobiusStripTech

Website: https://www.mobiusstriptechnologi...

Jan 19, 2017 at 6:31:17 PM
Mobiusstriptech (22)
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< Meka Chicken >
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Interposers are being soldered now for anyone that chose that option. Expect kits to start shipping out within days. We are offering install specials for those interested. And we will have a premodded front loader for sale shortly after kits are shipped.

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For mod work and questions email us at [email protected]

Twitter: @mobiusstriptech

Youtube: MobiusStripTech

Website: https://www.mobiusstriptechnologi...

Jan 25, 2017 at 6:39:47 AM
Mobiusstriptech (22)
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< Meka Chicken >
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Kits are being ESD bagged. I would expect them to be shipping out soon.

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For mod work and questions email us at [email protected]

Twitter: @mobiusstriptech

Youtube: MobiusStripTech

Website: https://www.mobiusstriptechnologi...

Jan 31, 2017 at 9:46:41 PM
Mobiusstriptech (22)
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< Meka Chicken >
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Kits have started shipping out today.

-------------------------
For mod work and questions email us at [email protected]

Twitter: @mobiusstriptech

Youtube: MobiusStripTech

Website: https://www.mobiusstriptechnologi...