NA » Arcade cabinet wiring advice needed

Arcade cabinet wiring advice needed looking for someone to help me troubleshoot a problem

Apr 22, 2017 at 8:47:45 PM

64BitMatthew (31)

(Matthew 64Bit) < Eggplant Wizard >

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Hey Folks. I recently got a 1996 Midway NBA Hangtime arcade cabinet. It fires up, has sound, etc. but the monitor wont display anything, its just playing blind. I was hoping that someone here who knows wiring might be able to look at some pics and maybe point me in the right direction. Let me know if you want to help!
Thanks!

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Apr 23, 2017 at 4:13:07 PM

dewisp02 (78)

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Does the neck of the tube glow when the game is powered on? If not, then the monitor chassis is in high voltage shutdown mode (and will need component level work). Also need you to provide more info on the brand and model of the monitor. Feel free to pm me about this if that is easier.

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Edited: 04/23/2017 at 04:15 PM by dewisp02

Apr 23, 2017 at 5:47:47 PM

64BitMatthew (31)

(Matthew 64Bit) < Eggplant Wizard >

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Originally posted by: dewisp02

Does the neck of the tube glow when the game is powered on? If not, then the monitor chassis is in high voltage shutdown mode (and will need component level work). Also need you to provide more info on the brand and model of the monitor. Feel free to pm me about this if that is easier.

Hey dewisp02. Thanks for the response. I meant to add more pics and info today but forgot. I'm at my nieces bday party right now, but will shoot you a pm later if that's ok. I checked again this morning though and no neck glow. I definitely appreciate any help you might be able to offer. Thanks

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Apr 23, 2017 at 11:38:43 PM

dewisp02 (78)

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Originally posted by: 64BitMatthew

Reply sent.

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Edited: 04/23/2017 at 11:38 PM by dewisp02

Apr 23, 2017 at 11:42:54 PM

retroupgrade (3)

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I don't have any knowledge to offer, but I'm interested to read about your technical troubleshooting.

Apr 23, 2017 at 11:49:54 PM

64BitMatthew (31)

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Originally posted by: retroupgrade

I don't have any knowledge to offer, but I'm interested to read about your technical troubleshooting.

I originally thought I'd just take it to pm's as I didn't think anyone else besides myself and whoever offered to help would want to read about my cluelessness lol. I will update this thread tomorrow to catch you up to speed if you would like.

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Apr 24, 2017 at 12:52:33 AM

dav3yb (39)

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Just be careful around the business end of a CRT. The current going through it isn't something to be ignored.

Apr 24, 2017 at 2:02:57 AM

MuNKeY (151)

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Sounding like the monitor did you check all the conections as my cab which was Midway Sports Ststion had some stuff unplugged one being the monitor and like the responce above mine do be careful around that neck as we'd like you to hang around a while longer.

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Apr 24, 2017 at 9:53:42 AM

64BitMatthew (31)

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Originally posted by: MuNKeY

Sounding like the monitor did you check all the conections as my cab which was Midway Sports Ststion had some stuff unplugged one being the monitor and like the responce above mine do be careful around that neck as we'd like you to hang around a while longer.

Originally posted by: dav3yb

Just be careful around the business end of a CRT. The current going through it isn't something to be ignored.

Thanks for the advice guys. My other arcade cabs monitors all work well, so I haven't had to worry about discharging a monitor yet. Its looking more and more like I will have to with this one though so that I can check the fuses, etc. on the boards. I'll make sure to properly understand how to safely discharge a monitor before I attempt anything though. There is one wire coming off the monitor that I'm unsure of, so it would be great if that was the only problem, but I'm a bit doubtful that it is.

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Apr 24, 2017 at 10:15:40 AM

64BitMatthew (31)

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Picture time!
I was originally going to just pm Dewisp02 about this, as he was gracious enough to offer some help/guidance, but with a few others replying here I thought I'd share a bit here too.

So here is the cab I'm working on. A 1996 Midway Hangtime 4 player cab. I picked it up for $200 Canadian, so about $140-150 US I think.

I knew when I was buying it that it had the monitor problem, which is that it simply doesn't turn on at all. Sound works, coin doors work, you can tell buttons are responding as they should, etc. there is just no picture.

The wire mess on the bottom confused me, but good ol' Dewisp02 to the rescue again! Apparently someone just modified a computer power supply to power the cab. With everything working but the monitor, I'm fine with leaving that well enough alone for now.

Here is a pic that shows something got a bit too hot on the neck board. There is no neck glow, so Dewisp02 suggested I check in on the high voltage circuit, the fuses and the B+ voltage. He sent me a few links to read up on, as I am able to follow what he is saying, but it is all fairly new to me.

This is a wire I was talking to Dewisp02 about, as its not plugged in anywhere. It runs to the front of the cab, and is connected to the monitor board in the back. In the second pic, my hand is holding the wires coming from the front. They seem to be split between the monitor board and something else.

Heres a few pics of the monitor board I took. The monitor is a WGM2520.

Now, I'm very much interested in learning how to fix this. But I do have only basic knowledge going in. One idea I have thought about is if the board fix is too complex, or if it needs a new tube or neck, then I might explore the option of converting to a lcd screen. Has anyone here gone that route? Again, just thinking out loud about my options.

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Apr 24, 2017 at 10:57:31 AM

dewisp02 (78)

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Originally posted by: 64BitMatthew

Did not receive this picture from you. Yikes. That bent copper coil (width coil), is most likely shorting out the chassis. You will definitely need to replace that. I would bend it up so its not making contact with anything on the pcb and then test the monitor again for neck glow. I am afraid the damage has already been done though.

Originally posted by: 64BitMatthew

I would get a switching power supply and install it (they are pretty cheap). PC power supplies work in a pinch (for an operator on route so he can rebuild the original if it breaks down), but really should not be used as a permenant replacement.

Originally posted by: 64BitMatthew
One idea I have thought about is if the board fix is too complex, or if it needs a new tube or neck, then I might explore the option of converting to a lcd screen. Has anyone here gone that route? Again, just thinking out loud about my options.

If you go that route, there is an I/O (interface) board needed to connect the arcade cab wiring to the LCD. You can even get scanline generators to make the LCD look like a CRT. I personally prefer to keep the CRTs, but the LCD mod would lighten the cab some.

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Edited: 04/24/2017 at 11:21 AM by dewisp02

Apr 24, 2017 at 11:41:19 AM

64BitMatthew (31)

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Originally posted by: dewisp02

Originally posted by: 64BitMatthew

I seen that copper coil and thought it looked wrong, but figured you would mention it if it was. Thanks for the heads up. Before I bend it and try to check for neck glow, do I have to discharge the monitor? Just want to be careful when playing in that area.

I will order a new switching power supply. Are these pretty generic or would I need a very specific one? Sorry about the noob questions!

I have been reading up on interface boards to make the wiring/signal work. I have also read that some people with Midway cabs like mine have had trouble with them. I will try to do some more reading though. Depending on what damage has been done to the crt though, this might be my best route. Along this line though, do people ever swap old home tvs in place of the arcade monitor? I'm just thinking as they are bubble glass fronts and 4:3 ratio already. Not sure how the wiring for that would go though, or if it would produce an acceptable picture.

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Apr 24, 2017 at 10:49:15 PM

dewisp02 (78)

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Originally posted by: 64BitMatthew

Originally posted by: dewisp02
Did not receive this picture from you. Yikes. That bent copper coil (width coil), is most likely shorting out the chassis. You will definitely need to replace that. I would bend it up so its not making contact with anything on the pcb and then test the monitor again for neck glow. I am afraid the damage has already been done though.

I seen that copper coil and thought it looked wrong, but figured you would mention it if it was. Thanks for the heads up. Before I bend it and try to check for neck glow, do I have to discharge the monitor? Just want to be careful when playing in that area.
Just make sure the cab is not plugged in. No need to discharge the monitor. You really only need to discharge monitors when you are pulling it from the cab or when pulling the chassis.

I will order a new switching power supply. Are these pretty generic or would I need a very specific one? Sorry about the noob questions!
Should be able to use a generic one, but verify with the hangtime manual first to see what voltages are used. Then make sure the switching power supply has the needed voltages. Pretty sure there's no special voltages used.

Along this line though, do people ever swap old home tvs in place of the arcade monitor? I'm just thinking as they are bubble glass fronts and 4:3 ratio already. Not sure how the wiring for that would go though, or if it would produce an acceptable picture.
There are people testing using CRT TVs by modding them. Still very new and some models work better than others, but picture quality usually isn't as good. The more common practice is to swap compatible TV tubes for arcade monitor tubes with lots of burn-in. You can swap the yolks as well if the TV yolk is the only thing not compatible. This is pretty advanced though since you have to then make sure you get the yoke in the proper location and alignment, get the convergence and purity dialed in, and then do the basic monitor adjustments.

What you could do is drop off your chassis to a TV repair store or send it to one of the many monitor guys in the hobby. I can provide more info on this later if this option is pursued.

See comments in bold above. ^ I hope you are ok with me not doing the digging for the info you need. I want to help you so you can learn what questions to ask and how to find the info you need since that is a major part of repairing arcades when you first get into it.

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Edited: 04/24/2017 at 11:40 PM by dewisp02

Apr 25, 2017 at 12:00:02 AM

64BitMatthew (31)

(Matthew 64Bit) < Eggplant Wizard >

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Originally posted by: dewisp02
See comments in bold above. ^ I hope you are ok with me not doing the digging for the info you need. I want to help you so you can learn what questions to ask and how to find the info you need since that is a major part of repairing arcades when you first get into it.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions bud, I really appreciate both it, and you pointing me in the right directions to find answers. I agree, the best way to learn is to dig through forums, threads, websites, etc. trying to read as much as possible. When I get a new project, I tend to jump in with both feet, and its easier to just ask for answers instead of trying to figure things out. I really just need to slow myself down, and keep reading and googling. I will most likely still post a fair amount of questions here too, but I will at least try to pace them haha.

I bent the copper coil back to a standing upright position, and powered the cab up. Still no neck glow, but I was expecting that. Now there is no sound coming from the speakers, though I doubt it was directly related to me adjusting the copper coil. You can tell there is power and the speakers have a hum, but no game sounds or game play. There is a constant ticking sound, which I remember reading about on a forum today, but can't remember what it means. I'll go back and try to refind that info though.

Also today I got a package in the mail containing some new leaf spring buttons, so my evening once the kids were in bed was spent installing those into the time pilot cabinet, and dissasembling and washing hangtimes buttons. I also found the number for a local guy who does tv repairs, so I'm going to chat with him tomorrow and see if he has ever ventured into arcade monitor work before. I also need to get some new plexiglass cut for the time pilot and hangtime cabs. Sar search and rescue got new plexiglass a few weeks ago so its all good to go on that front.

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Edited: 04/25/2017 at 12:30 AM by 64BitMatthew

Apr 25, 2017 at 1:00:33 AM

dewisp02 (78)

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Originally posted by: 64BitMatthew

There is a constant ticking sound, which I remember reading about on a forum today, but can't remember what it means. I'll go back and try to refind that info though.

The ticking sound is most likely the HOT (horizontal output transistor). Sometimes the flyback can cause a ticking sound.

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May 4, 2017 at 4:31:45 PM

64BitMatthew (31)

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Originally posted by: dewisp02
The ticking sound is most likely the HOT (horizontal output transistor). Sometimes the flyback can cause a ticking sound.

Hi again,
I've been doing a fair bit of research since we last chatted, and re-read your messages. I came across a hypothetical situation, and wanted to run it past you. I thought I'd post it here in case anyone else wanted to read it or be a part of the discussion.

In theory, if someone was to switch from an crt monitor to an lcd monitor, they could delete the isolation transformer, correct? The purpose of the isolation transformer is to clean the electricity going through it, and to isolate the wall outlet voltage to keep it off the metal frame and ground connections of the monitor as a safety measure. But an lcd screen doesn't require this, as the chassis is isolated, so it just takes normal power.

Now, the idea of deleting the isolation chamber gets a bit tricky as the cord leading away from it (on the hangtime cab) leads to the power distribution block. This then has leads going to the crt montor, as well as the switching power supply. But the power going to the switching power supply, does it have to come through the isolation transformer and then the power distribution block? or could it just recieve power from a wall outlet like a normal computer switching power supply? I was just thinking of whether it would be possible to delete the isolation transformer, power distribution block, and have virtually an extension cord come in to power the switching power supply and lcd monitor. Nice and tidy and updated.

Thoughts? If that ramble made any sense lol.

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Edited: 05/04/2017 at 05:03 PM by 64BitMatthew

Jul 19, 2017 at 12:02:55 PM

64BitMatthew (31)

(Matthew 64Bit) < Eggplant Wizard >

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So I forgot to update this a long time ago lol. My apologies. I ended up going with a ega to vga converter, and then an lcd screen. I know a lot of people don't like this, as it takes a bit of the originality out of the arcade system, and for a lot of games, simply looks terrible. But with my limited knowledge, and the fact its just for in the basement for me and a few friends to play, I decided to try this route. I'm really happy with the end result. With it being a basketball game, I feel it looks great on the widescreen format. I also cleaned up the outside a bunch. I put all new t-molding trim on, I painted a bezel on the glass to fit the new screen size, I painted the front of the machine black, I added new locks (not pictured), got the marquee light working, and created new trim on the control panel box. I did the trim on the control panel box as it was fairly chipped along the bottom, and I knew I wouldn't be able to just paint it to get it to match the graphics. Overall, I'm about $500 (Canadian) total into this thing, and its been great fun so far.

Before:
http://imgur.com/a/vdcpm...

After:
http://imgur.com/a/r6yCb...

http://imgur.com/a/fyxK3...

(Hulkamania is currently holding the spot of my time pilot cabinet, which is still being worked on)

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Edited: 07/19/2017 at 12:07 PM by 64BitMatthew