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2012 US Presidential Election Poll Curious to see where members on this site stand

Nov 9, 2012 at 12:29:28 PM
arch_8ngel (68)
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(Nathan ?) < Mario >
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Originally posted by: jonebone

 

I don't mind helping out those who need assistance, but I think they are the vast minority.  I'm talking about truly disabled people that cannot provide for themselves.  I'm not talking about Shaniqua from the hood who has 6 kids from 4 baby daddies, all at age 25.  They're poor life decisions have rendered them to the point of needing help, and I have absolutely no pity for that. 
 

EDIT: mistated a point

Said correctly: the largest single group of welfare recipients is rural white females




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Edited: 11/09/2012 at 12:47 PM by arch_8ngel

Nov 9, 2012 at 12:45:06 PM
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jonebone (554)
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(Collector Extraordinaire) < Luigi >
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Originally posted by: arch_8ngel

Originally posted by: jonebone

I don't mind helping out those who need assistance, but I think they are the vast minority.  I'm talking about truly disabled people that cannot provide for themselves.  I'm not talking about Shaniqua from the hood who has 6 kids from 4 baby daddies, all at age 25.  They're poor life decisions have rendered them to the point of needing help, and I have absolutely no pity for that. 
 

As an interesting aside... the VAST majority of welfare recipients (food stamps, WIC, EIC) are rural white females.
?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/wel...

Welfare Demographics  
Percent of recipients who are white 38.8 %
Percent of recipients who are black 39.8 %
Percent of recipients who are Hispanic 15.7 %
Percent of recipients who are Asian 2.4 %
Percent of recipients who are Other 3.3 %

And more disturbing:

Welfare Statistics
Total amount of money you can make monthly and still receive Welfare $1000
Total Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than an $8 per hour job 40
Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than a $12 per hour job 7
Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than the average salary of a U.S. Teacher 9


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Nov 9, 2012 at 12:54:07 PM
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sadikyo (89)
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I don't trust the statistics on welfare from a website that still refers to AFDC.

This is a subject I've done a lot of research on, and AFDC ended IN 1996! Welfare was reformed in 1996/1997 and is a lot more stringent than it used to be.

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Nov 9, 2012 at 12:55:44 PM
arch_8ngel (68)
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(Nathan ?) < Mario >
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I misstated what I was trying to say.

I am fairly certain I have seen it bandied about that the single largest group (obviously different that the majority) of welfare recipients is rural white females.

Breaking it out solely by race doesn't capture that unless you subdivide by sex.
Also, it's not entirely clear what things are included in "welfare".


That bottom table is terrifying, if it's true.

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Nov 9, 2012 at 1:09:37 PM
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sadikyo (89)
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(Sadik Yo) < King Solomon >
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I don't trust that data --- welfare isn't clearly defined as Nathan said, and then there's this awesome section:

Average Time on AFCD (Aid to Families with Dependent Children)
Time on AFDC Percent of Recipients
Less than 7 months 19%
7 to 12 months 15.2%
1 to 2 years 19.3%
2 to 5 years 26.9%
Over 5 years 19.6%

Clearly there is a message in this particular chart - the reader is supposed to read this and think "wow, the majority of people on AFDC are on it for 2 to 5 years, with many people longer than that."

Yeah, maybe this was true in 1996, when there was significantly more welfare abuse. Welfare was reformed substantially, and AFDC ended. The equivalent current program to this is called TANF "Temporary Aid to Needy Families," and is a lot more stringent.

So, either the data is outdated and can't be trusted, or they are mixing current data with data from over 15 years ago to get a particular 'message' across to the reader.

I would encourage anyone who sees tables like these to have a little skepticism and do some research, before taking it as fact.

I was looking for the source of this information when I found this at the top of the page:

"Source: US Department of Health and Human Services, U.S. Department of Commerce, CATO Institute"

Which is incredibly vague, and broad, and makes it virtually impossible for you to review the source material to check the statistics.

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Edited: 11/09/2012 at 01:37 PM by sadikyo

Nov 9, 2012 at 2:19:44 PM
quest4nes (147)
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(jeff -) < Bonk >
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Originally posted by: milligangames

Originally posted by: quest4nes

Ok barack, . Seriously sounds like it read straight off stephanie cutter or axelrods talking points
 

Strong rebuttal


Not really trying to have a rebuttal. Im actually quite tired of talking about it. But when i hear the same shit 24/7 and how its just not correct or a generalization its kinda funny

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Nov 9, 2012 at 3:17:08 PM
TiKi (16)
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Be careful liberals you are going to get what you asked for and those unintended consequences will be a bitch.

Unless they figure out how to inflate wages shits ganna go down in a few years. Or they can just give every American $2k every 3 months to keep them in check.

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Edited: 11/09/2012 at 03:17 PM by TiKi

Nov 9, 2012 at 4:22:05 PM
Bea_Iank (4)
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(Beatrice Bueno Iank) < Master Higgins >
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What bitchy unintended consequences easy access to the pill or the shot can have?

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Nov 9, 2012 at 4:24:51 PM
Jobber8742 (185)
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(Jeff Kilgard) < Lolo Lord >
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Originally posted by: quest4nes

Originally posted by: milligangames

Originally posted by: quest4nes

Ok barack, . Seriously sounds like it read straight off stephanie cutter or axelrods talking points
 

Strong rebuttal


Not really trying to have a rebuttal. Im actually quite tired of talking about it. But when i hear the same shit 24/7 and how its just not correct or a generalization its kinda funny
Then why continue to show up in a thread about it?



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Nov 9, 2012 at 4:32:17 PM
Jobber8742 (185)
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(Jeff Kilgard) < Lolo Lord >
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Originally posted by: jonebone


I don't mind helping out those who need assistance, but I think they are the vast minority.  I'm talking about truly disabled people that cannot provide for themselves.  I'm not talking about Shaniqua from the hood who has 6 kids from 4 baby daddies, all at age 25.  They're poor life decisions have rendered them to the point of needing help, and I have absolutely no pity for that. 
 

Then what? Mandatory sterilization for deadbeats? How about euthanizing the kids? That way society doesn't have to provide for its lazy, deadbeat drains on society. It's easy to talk about doing away with assistance for those that may or may not need it, but what about the results of such an action? There will be consequences in cutting aid. Some that are able may get off their butts and work. Many will turn to crime. People still need to eat and survive whether you are helping them or not. And that's not to mention those that actually need the help.


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"I'm not a nerd, I'm a video game enthusiast"

Nov 9, 2012 at 4:50:33 PM
shipwrekd (192)
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(charlie brown) < Lolo Lord >
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Shaniqua from the hood who has 6 kids from 4 baby daddies<----sounds like one of my sisters.....its a career choice to live off the public and child support... but then you have 6 kids learning this same lifestyle ...welfare should be demeaning and embarassing it should be hard to live off of..should be no extras on foodstamps no soda icecream ...we all have our views from how we where raised ..

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Nov 9, 2012 at 11:56:20 PM
shipwrekd (192)
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(charlie brown) < Lolo Lord >
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I found this to be very interesting open for dialog...



http://www.fff.org/comment/com090...

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/f......

https://groups.google.com/forum/?......

Especially this part...


The Choice Before Us

This question of legal plunder must be settled once and for all,
and there are only three ways to settle it:

1. The few plunder the many.
2. Everybody plunders everybody.
3. Nobody plunders anybody.

We must make our choice among limited plunder, universal plunder,
and no plunder.


http://cbl2988.hubpages.com/hub/S...-...


Individual charity needs to be thrown in there as well. I can do more good with my charity at a local level than having to send it through Federal beaurocracies and some of it ending up where they see fit. When people are free from making good decisions and just having their needs and wants taken care of from someone else's pocket BY FORCE, they tend to continue making bad decisions because there are no consquences. When a local group helps a family truly in need, great but when that family makes the decision to not put forth any effort to help themselves and decides to only consume what others have worked for, they tend to be removed from the circle of charity very quickly and thus must make better decisions for themselves and their family lest they starve. Hunger is a very powerful motivator.





This is one of the easiest to understand anologies about Socialism

I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food. But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, and the table...everywhere. Then some of the birds turned mean: They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food. After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio. Soon, the back yard was like it used to be...quite, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.

Now lets see...our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be a automatic citizen. Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families: you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor: your child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English: Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than "Old Glory" are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties. Maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder.

Anonymous

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Don't worry about my grammer I have a redneck waiver...
I never find nuttin'


Nov 10, 2012 at 8:43:27 AM
wrldstrman (107)
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(doug prickett) < Master Higgins >
Posts: 8001 - Joined: 08/18/2006
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Originally posted by: shipwrekd

I found this to be very interesting open for dialog...



http://www.fff.org/comment/com0908h.asp

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/features/why-socialism-is-im...

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/misc.inve...

Especially this part...


The Choice Before Us

This question of legal plunder must be settled once and for all,
and there are only three ways to settle it:

1. The few plunder the many.
2. Everybody plunders everybody.
3. Nobody plunders anybody.

We must make our choice among limited plunder, universal plunder,
and no plunder.


http://cbl2988.hubpages.com/hub/Socialism-v-Capitalism-Part-...


Individual charity needs to be thrown in there as well. I can do more good with my charity at a local level than having to send it through Federal beaurocracies and some of it ending up where they see fit. When people are free from making good decisions and just having their needs and wants taken care of from someone else's pocket BY FORCE, they tend to continue making bad decisions because there are no consquences. When a local group helps a family truly in need, great but when that family makes the decision to not put forth any effort to help themselves and decides to only consume what others have worked for, they tend to be removed from the circle of charity very quickly and thus must make better decisions for themselves and their family lest they starve. Hunger is a very powerful motivator.





This is one of the easiest to understand anologies about Socialism

I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food. But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, and the table...everywhere. Then some of the birds turned mean: They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food. After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio. Soon, the back yard was like it used to be...quite, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.

Now lets see...our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be a automatic citizen. Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families: you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor: your child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English: Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than "Old Glory" are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties. Maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder.

Anonymous

lol thats pretty spot on,  no one and i mean no one is entilted to something for nothing, unless it something that is freely given. 


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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

Nov 10, 2012 at 9:21:22 AM
VGS_MrMark0673 (455)
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(Mark Nolan) < Master Higgins >
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Tell me about it! Look at public education and our highway systems. We'd be much better off without either of those.

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Nov 10, 2012 at 1:18:43 PM
quest4nes (147)
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(jeff -) < Bonk >
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Keep listing.

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Nov 10, 2012 at 1:23:14 PM
Alder (52)
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(Tom B.) < King Solomon >
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Originally posted by: MrMark0673

Tell me about it! Look at public education and our highway systems. We'd be much better off without either of those.
This.

Charlie, aside from that Socialism analogy (lol) I think I agree with what you were getting at earlier.  Ice cream and soda are luxuries and shouldn't be given to people who don't work for them.  The weird thing is that junk food is pretty much cheaper than actual food nowadays.  It's cheaper to live off of ramen noodles and mcdonalds than buy quality (healthy) food.  But I think that welfare should be for specific items and not for luxury items.  Living expenses, maybe a basic trac-fone, and some food.  Not a laptop, 3 dogs, and an iPhone (I have someone in mind here).  To continue the analogy, we need to change the type of bird feed and limit who it goes to, but taking down the bird feeder altogether would be disastrous. 



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Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of

Nov 10, 2012 at 1:27:04 PM
quest4nes (147)
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(jeff -) < Bonk >
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Agreed alder but the thing is this administration is not for any of that.

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Nov 10, 2012 at 3:26:52 PM
VGS_MrMark0673 (455)
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(Mark Nolan) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: quest4nes

Keep listing.


Fire, police, post office?

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Nov 10, 2012 at 3:36:27 PM
quest4nes (147)
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(jeff -) < Bonk >
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At a local level yes. Federal govt? Um no. People arent saying all govt is bad but to compare civil servants and a highway systen to other govt programs is dumb . Im sorry. And the post office is a seperate entity. Not federal govt. the govt is what screws it up. Operate under govt rules and cant control their own business without govt approving it. Id argue the govt screwed it up.

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Wii U 158
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Original Gameboy 48

 



Edited: 11/10/2012 at 03:38 PM by quest4nes

Nov 10, 2012 at 3:39:25 PM
bunnyboy (81)
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(Funktastic B) < Master Higgins >
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How are there more trolls after the election than before?

I found this site about campaign spending interesting: http://reporting.sunlightfoundati... Makes me feel a bit better about super pacs when so many completely failed!

Nov 10, 2012 at 3:43:41 PM
Dennis (70)
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(Dennis ) < Kraid Killer >
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Originally posted by: quest4nes

At a local level yes. Federal govt? Um no. People arent saying all govt is bad but to compare civil servants and a highway systen to other govt programs is dumb . Im sorry. And the post office is a seperate entity. Not federal govt. the govt is what screws it up. Operate under govt rules and cant control their own business without govt approving it. Id argue the govt screwed it up.

We had a postal service that worked pretty well untill they made it private 10/15 years ago. Since then it`s been a total mess. I guess a big problem for the US is that is such a big place that it`s near impossible for a goverment to regulate without being super bureaucratic, thus expensive?



Edited: 11/10/2012 at 03:44 PM by Dennis

Nov 10, 2012 at 3:50:30 PM
VGS_MrMark0673 (455)
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(Mark Nolan) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

How are there more trolls after the election than before?
No trolls, civil disagreement throughout if you ask me.

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Nov 10, 2012 at 6:21:42 PM
quest4nes (147)
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(jeff -) < Bonk >
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Originally posted by: Dennis

Originally posted by: quest4nes

At a local level yes. Federal govt? Um no. People arent saying all govt is bad but to compare civil servants and a highway systen to other govt programs is dumb . Im sorry. And the post office is a seperate entity. Not federal govt. the govt is what screws it up. Operate under govt rules and cant control their own business without govt approving it. Id argue the govt screwed it up.

We had a postal service that worked pretty well untill they made it private 10/15 years ago. Since then it`s been a total mess. I guess a big problem for the US is that is such a big place that it`s near impossible for a goverment to regulate without being super bureaucratic, thus expensive?
 

actually what screwed up the post office was the govt. Under the bush administration they made them have to hold pension funds for 75 years to protect longevity. Kind of ironic seeing that it is what is doing them in. The post office cant fix this without the house voting on it. Its blocked by Isa in the house because he wants the post office privatized. Which would be a pain to implement but probably better for the long term. This was waaay to long of a  reserve on pension funds. Pensions for workers who arent even born yet are put away. If these funds were released and reduced to a moderate amount of time the post office would be ok right now. So yeah the govt forcing this deal kind of effed the post office.


edit: didnt notice you said WE as in your country. I thought you were talking about the US

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Wii U 158
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Edited: 11/10/2012 at 06:26 PM by quest4nes

Nov 11, 2012 at 1:28:27 AM
OakTea (6)
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This must be the largest political thread on a video game forum in the history of the internet.

Great job, NA!

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