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Music Debate VII: Avenged Sevenfold With poll and rating explanation

Apr 26 at 1:42:57 PM
quest4nes (147)
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Originally posted by: captmorgandrinker
 
Originally posted by: quest4nes
 
Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: Mega Tank

Is it possible to add a "Never heard of them" option separate of the point scale?
Nope.  At that point either dive in or abstain from voting.  I post a few of the more well-known songs so that everyone can make an educated guess at worst.

 
These are the well known ones? Ive heard the first one but i think only because it was on a guitar hero i think. I had never heard the others. Last song, well ive heard worse so if i could change vote id make a 2/10 instead of a 1

 
Beast and the Harlot was in at least one video game (maybe one of the Burnouts?)

 

Just remembered what game. Madden 06. I played alot of that one. Those menu songs stick in your head. I liked creating my own franchise and draft so I was on menus for a long time lol.
 

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Apr 26 at 1:57:47 PM
dra600n (300)
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Originally posted by: captmorgandrinker

Originally posted by: quest4nes
 
Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: Mega Tank

Is it possible to add a "Never heard of them" option separate of the point scale?
Nope.  At that point either dive in or abstain from voting.  I post a few of the more well-known songs so that everyone can make an educated guess at worst.

 
These are the well known ones? Ive heard the first one but i think only because it was on a guitar hero i think. I had never heard the others. Last song, well ive heard worse so if i could change vote id make a 2/10 instead of a 1

 
Beast and the Harlot was in at least one video game (maybe one of the Burnouts?)

 



It was also in guitar hero 2, which was 2005 or 2006 as well. It's also in Rockband 3.

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Apr 26 at 2:16:14 PM
Brock Landers (61)
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https://vgost.fandom.com/wiki/Ave...
Madden NFL 2004 Chapter Four 2003
NASCAR Thunder 2004 Chapter Four 2003
NHL 2004 Chapter Four 2003
Madden NFL 06 Bat Country 2005
NHL 06 Bat Country 2005
SSX on Tour Bat Country 2005
Burnout Revenge Beast and the Harlot 2005
Need for Speed: Most Wanted Blinded in Chains 2005
Arena Football Blinded in Chains 2006
Guitar Hero II Beast and the Harlot 2006
Need for Speed: ProStreet Almost Easy 2007
NHL 09 Afterlife 2008
Saints Row 2 Bat Country 2008
Guitar Hero: Warriors of Rock Bat Country 2010
EA Sports MMA Nightmare 2010
Call of Duty: Black Ops II Carry On 2012
Rock Band Blitz So Far Away 2012
Twisted Metal (2012) Natural Born Killer 2012
Rocksmith 2014 Bat Country 2013
EA Sports UFC Shepherd of Fire 2014
WWE 2K15 This Means War 2014
Rock Band 4 Hail to the King 2015
Call of Duty: Black Ops III Jade Helm 2015
Guitar Hero Live Shepherd of Fire (Live) 2015
Guitar Hero Live Buried Alive (Live) 2015
Guitar Hero Live Nightmare (Live) 2015


Among others.  Seems to cut off at 2015, and it's missing other stuff because I know for a fact some music game had Unholy Confessions.  Mostly because I forgot about it until I researched their music for this thread.

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Apr 26 at 2:23:56 PM
Brock Landers (61)
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Originally posted by: quest4nes
 
Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: Mega Tank

Is it possible to add a "Never heard of them" option separate of the point scale?
Nope.  At that point either dive in or abstain from voting.  I post a few of the more well-known songs so that everyone can make an educated guess at worst.

 
These are the well known ones? Ive heard the first one but i think only because it was on a guitar hero i think. I had never heard the others. Last song, well ive heard worse so if i could change vote id make a 2/10 instead of a 1

 
I mean, I assume so?  They are one of the biggest metal bands in the world and these are the singles that have large numbers of views and appear in their setlists.  Granted I am no A7X guy so I'm sure someone like Mr. Wunderful could educate us.

Weezer - 632K subscribers
Say It Ain't So - 83M views
Beverly Hills - 45M views
Buddy Holly - 44M views

A7X - 3.5M subscribers
So Far Away - 187M views (missed this one)
Nightmare - 139M views
Hail to the King - 120M views
Afterlife - 91M views

Obviously that's not a perfect system, and it probably favors newer stuff.  But that should give an idea of how "big" some bands are nowadays.

edit: Looks like the albums that most of those songs appear on all went platinum too

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Writing about every SNES game - Volume VIII (#400-351) - Migrating to snesrankings.com as we speak
SNES Set - 716/723 (Casper)
Switch: SW-6880-6470-3131


Edited: 04/26/2019 at 02:27 PM by Brock Landers

Apr 26 at 2:25:27 PM
dra600n (300)
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers


https://vgost.fandom.com/wiki/Avenged_Sevenfold
Madden NFL 2004 Chapter Four 2003
NASCAR Thunder 2004 Chapter Four 2003
NHL 2004 Chapter Four 2003
Madden NFL 06 Bat Country 2005
NHL 06 Bat Country 2005
SSX on Tour Bat Country 2005
Burnout Revenge Beast and the Harlot 2005
Need for Speed: Most Wanted Blinded in Chains 2005
Arena Football Blinded in Chains 2006
Guitar Hero II Beast and the Harlot 2006
Need for Speed: ProStreet Almost Easy 2007
NHL 09 Afterlife 2008
Saints Row 2 Bat Country 2008
Guitar Hero: Warriors of Rock Bat Country 2010
EA Sports MMA Nightmare 2010
Call of Duty: Black Ops II Carry On 2012
Rock Band Blitz So Far Away 2012
Twisted Metal (2012) Natural Born Killer 2012
Rocksmith 2014 Bat Country 2013
EA Sports UFC Shepherd of Fire 2014
WWE 2K15 This Means War 2014
Rock Band 4 Hail to the King 2015
Call of Duty: Black Ops III Jade Helm 2015
Guitar Hero Live Shepherd of Fire (Live) 2015
Guitar Hero Live Buried Alive (Live) 2015
Guitar Hero Live Nightmare (Live) 2015


Among others.  Seems to cut off at 2015, and it's missing other stuff because I know for a fact some music game had Unholy Confessions.  Mostly because I forgot about it until I researched their music for this thread.



Unholy Confession, Bat Country, Hail to the king, Nightmare, and a few others are in Rockband as DLC. Beast and the Harlot is a disc song on RB3, unsure why it's not on that list. I can understand the DLC not being there tho.

ETA: Hail to the King is a disc song on RB4 - thought it was DLC. Had to double check Beast, though, and that's def an on disc RB3 song. It's an incomplete list for sure, but good enough to give an idea that these guys aren't just some rando group.

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Edited: 04/26/2019 at 02:27 PM by dra600n

Apr 26 at 2:33:57 PM
Brock Landers (61)
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Originally posted by: dra600n
 
Originally posted by: Mega Tank
 
Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: Mega Tank

Is it possible to add a "Never heard of them" option separate of the point scale?
Nope.  At that point either dive in or abstain from voting.  I post a few of the more well-known songs so that everyone can make an educated guess at worst.

 



I heard the ones posted. 2 from me. The reason for the "never heard of them" wasn't to not cast a vote, but simply to indicated one had never previously heard of them.



He made it clear that he's not interested in people's thoughts about his pole in the last thread  

I'd prefer to have data with numbers.  If you abstain from voting it's the same thing.  So if someone gets 35 votes, we can assume many people are not familiar with them.  But this also gives them the option of listening to a few songs and throwing a vote down later if they choose.

I'll be in this boat next week with the (mega popular) rapper I have on deck.  I'll either not vote, stream his biggest albums and make a decision, or make a snap decision on the handful of hits that I do know.
 

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Writing about every SNES game - Volume VIII (#400-351) - Migrating to snesrankings.com as we speak
SNES Set - 716/723 (Casper)
Switch: SW-6880-6470-3131


Edited: 04/26/2019 at 02:35 PM by Brock Landers

Apr 26 at 2:40:06 PM
ZBomber (6)
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It baffles me that people haven't heard of any of the bands that have had polls so far. They're all relatively popular acts, and even though the highest score I think I've given one so far is a 6, they're all acts that I've heard AT LEAST two songs by before the poll.

Also, if you haven't heard any of the songs, then listen to the ones Brock post lol. They've been pretty good indicators of the type of music each band. Why vote on a poll if you're not going to listen just to say you haven't heard of it when you can just hit view results instead?


Edited: 04/26/2019 at 02:41 PM by ZBomber

Apr 26 at 2:41:55 PM
dra600n (300)
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: dra600n
 
Originally posted by: Mega Tank
 
Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: Mega Tank

Is it possible to add a "Never heard of them" option separate of the point scale?
Nope.  At that point either dive in or abstain from voting.  I post a few of the more well-known songs so that everyone can make an educated guess at worst.

 



I heard the ones posted. 2 from me. The reason for the "never heard of them" wasn't to not cast a vote, but simply to indicated one had never previously heard of them.



He made it clear that he's not interested in people's thoughts about his pole in the last thread  

I'd prefer to have data with numbers.  If you abstain from voting it's the same thing.  So if someone gets 35 votes, we can assume many people are not familiar with them.  But this also gives them the option of listening to a few songs and throwing a vote down later if they choose.

I'll be in this boat next week with the (mega popular) rapper I have on deck.  I'll either not vote, stream his biggest albums and make a decision, or make a snap decision on the handful of hits that I do know.
 

But if you were more receptive to peoples thoughts on these topics and polls, you'd have better, more accurate numbers. Until then, you're gonna keep getting troll votes, especially since you can't actually see what people vote. My comment as "10" may not really be a "10" at all in the poll, so it's not like you can just remove my 10 and empires 0.

And what "data" are you expecting to collect? There's definitely not enough data to have any meaningful results with such a small sample size to go through.
 

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Apr 26 at 2:42:15 PM
Brock Landers (61)
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Originally posted by: ZBomber

It baffles me that people haven't heard of any of the bands that have had polls so far. They're all relatively popular acts, and even though the highest score I think I've given one so far is a 6, they're all acts that I've heard AT LEAST two songs by before the poll.
The hilarious thing is, I wanted to do a metal band this week, and had like 6 candidate ready where I assumed most people would actually know who they were.  If people don't know A7X then I'm basically now down to Metallica and Slipknot lol

 

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SNES Set - 716/723 (Casper)
Switch: SW-6880-6470-3131

Apr 26 at 2:43:47 PM
Stryphos (306)
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I know of A7X and never really was interested in their music. I'd take Metallica every day of the week over them personally. I think some of that has to with the fact of growing up hearing Metallica to be honest.

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Haves     |     Wants


Edited: 04/26/2019 at 02:45 PM by Stryphos

Apr 26 at 2:45:06 PM
dra600n (300)
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers

Originally posted by: ZBomber

It baffles me that people haven't heard of any of the bands that have had polls so far. They're all relatively popular acts, and even though the highest score I think I've given one so far is a 6, they're all acts that I've heard AT LEAST two songs by before the poll.
The hilarious thing is, I wanted to do a metal band this week, and had like 6 candidate ready where I assumed most people would actually know who they were.  If people don't know A7X then I'm basically now down to Metallica and Slipknot lol

 

The problem with rock and metal - if you're not at least in your late 20's, you probably haven't been exposed to much rock/metal since it really hasn't been mainstream in nearly 15 years. (yes, there are exceptions, but after working with a handful of 26 and 27 year olds recently, if it's not Taylor Swift crying about something, they have no clue who it is)

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Apr 26 at 2:58:30 PM
Brock Landers (61)
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Originally posted by: dra600n

But if you were more receptive to peoples thoughts on these topics and polls, you'd have better, more accurate numbers. Until then, you're gonna keep getting troll votes, especially since you can't actually see what people vote. My comment as "10" may not really be a "10" at all in the poll, so it's not like you can just remove my 10 and empires 0.

And what "data" are you expecting to collect? There's definitely not enough data to have any meaningful results with such a small sample size to go through.
 
The feedback I've gotten so far (besides praise for my ratings) is that some people want a "I don't know this band" option.  And I'm saying we already have that; an abstained vote.  Now if like 15 people say they want it, I'll relent.  I don't think it's a good thing, but I'm nothing if not flexible.

And I was joking about removing numbers.  If 3-4 people such as yourself want to troll vote 0s and 10s every week as some sort of protest (again what I cannot imagine) I guess that's their perogative.  Happens every week so it should all cancel itself out in the end.

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Writing about every SNES game - Volume VIII (#400-351) - Migrating to snesrankings.com as we speak
SNES Set - 716/723 (Casper)
Switch: SW-6880-6470-3131


Edited: 04/26/2019 at 03:03 PM by Brock Landers

Apr 26 at 2:59:10 PM
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers

Originally posted by: ZBomber

It baffles me that people haven't heard of any of the bands that have had polls so far. They're all relatively popular acts, and even though the highest score I think I've given one so far is a 6, they're all acts that I've heard AT LEAST two songs by before the poll.
The hilarious thing is, I wanted to do a metal band this week, and had like 6 candidate ready where I assumed most people would actually know who they were.  If people don't know A7X then I'm basically now down to Metallica and Slipknot lol

 



Ew. 2/10 for A7X. What about heavily played radio rock like Shinedown, Three Days Grace, or Breaking Benjamin? Everyone has heard those bands before, and if not, are lying.

I'm not buying people not having heard of these bands/artists. Unless they just don't like music in general.:/

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Apr 26 at 3:02:38 PM
Brock Landers (61)
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Originally posted by: kguillemette
 
Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: ZBomber

It baffles me that people haven't heard of any of the bands that have had polls so far. They're all relatively popular acts, and even though the highest score I think I've given one so far is a 6, they're all acts that I've heard AT LEAST two songs by before the poll.
The hilarious thing is, I wanted to do a metal band this week, and had like 6 candidate ready where I assumed most people would actually know who they were.  If people don't know A7X then I'm basically now down to Metallica and Slipknot lol

 



Ew. 2/10 for A7X. What about heavily played radio rock like Shinedown, Three Days Grace, or Breaking Benjamin? Everyone has heard those bands before, and if not, are lying. I'm not buying people not having heard of these bands/artists. Unless they just don't like music in general.:/

All three are on my radar, but I assume all three will get mostly negative receptions.  For now I'm aiming for more polarizing artists.
 

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Apr 26 at 3:20:12 PM
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: dra600n

But if you were more receptive to peoples thoughts on these topics and polls, you'd have better, more accurate numbers. Until then, you're gonna keep getting troll votes, especially since you can't actually see what people vote. My comment as "10" may not really be a "10" at all in the poll, so it's not like you can just remove my 10 and empires 0.

And what "data" are you expecting to collect? There's definitely not enough data to have any meaningful results with such a small sample size to go through.
 
The feedback I've gotten so far (besides praise for my ratings) is that some people want a "I don't know this band" option.  And I'm saying we already have that; an abstained vote.  Now if like 15 people say they want it, I'll relent.  I don't think it's a good thing, but I'm nothing if not flexible.

And I was joking about removing numbers.  If 3-4 people such as yourself want to troll vote 0s and 10s every week as some sort of protest (again what I cannot imagine) I guess that's their perogative.  Happens every week so it should all cancel itself out in the end.


I'll throw my 2 cents in. I edited my post earlier to add this, but I don't see the point in adding a "I don't know this band" option. You post several videos for each act, so if people are actually interested in partaking in the poll and aren't aware of them beforehand, then they can listen to them and get a good idea. If you liked a couple of the songs, then maybe they'll check out more of the act and give them a higher rating. If you don't like 1 or 2 songs, you're probably not going to like the rest and can vote accordingly.

But if you don't know the band and aren't interested in hearing them, why would you even want to vote at all? You can still see the results by clicking "View Results". It makes sense in polls where you can't see results until you've voted, but that's not the case here. If you absolutely feel the need for it to be known that you haven't heard of them, you can still post it.

Also it's pretty dumb to troll vote things like this. Yeah, it's just a fun game thread so it's not really harming anyone. But personally I think it's kind of interesting to see where the musical tastes of the board are. It just skews results and makes things less fun for people who actually are interested in how the polls turn out.

Apr 26 at 3:29:30 PM
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I like a good chunk of their stuff. Easy 8 from me.

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Apr 26 at 4:16:43 PM
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers

 If 3-4 people such as yourself want to troll vote 0s and 10s every week as some sort of protest (again what I cannot imagine) I guess that's their perogative.  Happens every week so it should all cancel itself out in the end.
You can also just grade on a curve when it all shakes out. Prince may be a ~6 right now, but if no other artist scores 7 or more, you might as well put him as the highest rated artist in this experiment.

 

Apr 26 at 4:37:14 PM
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Originally posted by: Tulpa
 
Originally posted by: Brock Landers

 If 3-4 people such as yourself want to troll vote 0s and 10s every week as some sort of protest (again what I cannot imagine) I guess that's their perogative.  Happens every week so it should all cancel itself out in the end.
You can also just grade on a curve when it all shakes out. Prince may be a ~6 right now, but if no other artist scores 7 or more, you might as well put him as the highest rated artist in this experiment.

 
Yeah, that kinda how it's gonna go.  Though I do think we'll get a number of artists that crack the 7s.  Foo Fighters always go over well in this sort of thing for example.

Plus in a year from now I'll have done 60 of these things.

 

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Switch: SW-6880-6470-3131


Edited: 04/26/2019 at 04:39 PM by Brock Landers

Apr 26 at 4:40:07 PM
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Originally posted by: Brock Landers
 
Originally posted by: Tulpa
 
Originally posted by: Brock Landers

 If 3-4 people such as yourself want to troll vote 0s and 10s every week as some sort of protest (again what I cannot imagine) I guess that's their perogative.  Happens every week so it should all cancel itself out in the end.
You can also just grade on a curve when it all shakes out. Prince may be a ~6 right now, but if no other artist scores 7 or more, you might as well put him as the highest rated artist in this experiment.

 
Yeah, that kinda how it's gonna go.  Though I do think we'll get a number of artists that crack the 7s.  Eventually I'll have to do some more beloved groups.  Not to mention that a year from now I'll have down nearly 60 entries.

 

Not too sure on that one; even with your mainstream popular ones you're gonna have people that can't stand them.  Only ones I can see breaking a 7 average are groups like the Eagles and Journey.
 

Apr 26 at 4:52:31 PM
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Originally posted by: captmorgandrinker

Only ones I can see breaking a 7 average are groups like the Eagles and Journey.
 
I hate the Eagles.  

 

Apr 26 at 5:01:08 PM
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I really don't like Journey haha

Except for that sweet, sweet Separate Ways music video...


 
Originally posted by: captainmorgandrinker

Only ones I can see breaking a 7 average are groups like the Eagles and Journey.


Originally posted by: Gloves

Never heard of them

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Apr 26 at 5:17:29 PM
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Meh. Dudes can play but it's not my thang. 4.

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Apr 26 at 7:02:34 PM
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Whenever it comes to metal bands, you always get the guys where it's never heavy enough and anything even remotely main stream is trash to them. Unless it's some garbage chugging de-tuned to A# gargle crap like loxx used to listen to.

I believe they call it elitism.

Apr 26 at 7:02:42 PM
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I'm reminded of that clip from The Office where Micheal and Jim are co-managing and everyone is mad at them. Michael asks Jim how he's doing on a scale from 1 to 10, compared to his usual. Jim says he feels like a 4, but he's usually a 6. Michael says he's usually a 10, but feeling like a 0.

I get that people feel really strongly about popular music that they don't like, I myself would love to give Lorde a 0, but if she had never really hit that big, I'd give a more truthful 2 or 3. Same idea for a group that you love but isn't as popular. Many want to sway the final result more than give an honest opinion, and if some people are doing it, then the honest votes aren't worth as much, possibly encouraging more insincere votes. Because of this, it's going to be REALLY hard for any group to get higher than a 7 or less than a 3. So we're actually sort of ending up with a five-point scale that's still oddly fair since it's the same people doing all the voting.

Now if I didn't generally-ish agree with the current rankings, I'd definitely call out the system as rigged and useless and call everyone deaf garbage.

Apr 26 at 7:25:16 PM
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Originally posted by: MrWunderful

Whenever it comes to metal bands, you always get the guys where it's never heavy enough and anything even remotely main stream is trash to them. Unless it's some garbage chugging de-tuned to A# gargle crap like loxx used to listen to.

I believe they call it elitism.
I knew a guy who used to listen to black and death metal primarily composed by guys in their basement. If it got to the point where they sold like, maybe, 1000 records, they were suddenly uncool.