I guess I'm lucky that I just never encountered this situation before, but I recently sold an item, USPS lost the package, and eBay said I was responsible for refunding the buyer.  I was under the impression that by uploading valid tracking that shows the item was received into USPS custody, I had some sort of seller protection.  The buyer was very nice about the whole situation and was really patient while I talked to USPS and eBay, but ultimately I didn't want him to have to just wait around for a month while USPS looks for it, so I told him to open and escalate a case with eBay.  Perhaps naively, I was surprised when eBay refunded him from my account (especially because a rep I talked to on the phone had said I definitely would not have to cover the refund...wish I had caught his name).

Anyway, my point here is:

1) I wanted you to know about this policy if you didn't already.  Essentially, it sounds like every time you ship first class packages without insurance, as the seller you risk losing both the money and the item.  I thought eBay or PayPal would foot the bill as the middleman, but apparently not.

2) Is there any other action I can take to try to get reimbursed?  It seems like there is no way that USPS will reimburse me for an uninsured item.

Thanks!

Guessing it wasn't Priority?

If not, then that's just the cost of doing business. Think of how many packages you shipped over the years not adding $2 each to them, and eating one loss isn't nearly as expensive as having insured every single package to leave your doorstep.

Yes, sorry, it was first class.

And I totally agree, but I was surprised.  It doesn't seem like a good business practice for eBay to leave the seller totally liable like that.  Fortunately, the item was only $40, so it's not a huge amount but definitely enough to rub me the wrong way  
 

Yeah, responsibility of the seller 100%. Sucks that someone has to eat it but that person is the seller.

If you sell something it's your responsibility to get it to the buyer. You hired USPS and they failed you so your issue is with them if you can be reimbursed or not. But you have to make the seller whole.

Tracking that shows "delivered" is generally the point where you can claim you have reasonably fulfilled your obligation. Although it's not bulletproof- I've won a claim against a seller who tried to cheat that system.

The "seller protection" you have is that if the item shows DELIVERED, then it was presumably "delivered" and the buyer has a harder time claiming otherwise.

But if USPS loses the package, that is the seller's problem -- i.e. "insurance" on a package PROTECTS THE SELLER not the buyer.

Any time I've shipped something small like a GBA or DS game, I'll ship it inside a DVD case to make the package a little bigger (and still under the magical 4 oz).   Not sure if that's what you shipped though.
 

haha, yep, a GBA game bubble wrapped in a bubble mailer

I forgot to mention there's a chance the package finds it's way back to you. The only package I've sent that didn't get delivered had water damage making the delivery address unreadable but return address was ok so I got it back 5 weeks later

Have USPS run a tracking report on it.  It'll show the last sorting center it was accepted in, and they may randomly find it laying on the floor somewhere.
 

I don't understand how you would think it would work any other way. If you ship something and it doesn't arrive, USPS reimburses you for the insurance. If you choose not to insure it, then that's on you, not anyone else.

Consider the situation where it was insured, USPS reimburses you and eBay has to pay the buyer out of their own pocket (as you suggested). So the buyer paid nothing, the seller paid nothing and eBay paid for the whole thing. What kind of terrible business strategy is that?

I see what you're saying, but to me that is them assuming risk as part of running a marketplace.  It reassures sellers that they are safe to do business there.  I'm not saying I'm outraged that that isn't how it works, but it did surprise me.

Also, I had something happen once where PayPal did foot the bill so that neither buyer nor seller were out.  I don't remember the situation exactly, but that precedent was in my mind.
 

They do pretty clearly give you the option to buy insurance when you're buying your postage through their service, though...

 

Not if they're not in control of which shipping method you use. What if you used a local courior instead of USPS? What if you used a carrier pigeon? What if you set it sail down the river? I know USPS is pretty reliable but if you choose a shipping method that fails, that was your choosing. Until we allow eBay to tell us which shipping method we can use, they're going to deny responisbility.

Also, PayPal isn't the one running a business here, you are. They're merely providing a storefront for you to set up your business. If you had a similar situation happen with a retail store, would you expect your landlord to pay for the mistake because he owned the storefront property? No, you're the business owner, not eBay.

Also, spoiler alert, USPS isn't reliable.

By what measure?

 

You're right, but I kind of glossed over that since they offer insurance at the USPS branches for items outside of eBay purchases as well.  In my mind, eBay was just offering all the USPS options.  Also, buyers sometimes request insurance so it makes sense for that option to be available, but as you explained above, I now understand that the insurance protects the seller.

I just never had a reason to think about it that much because this is the first time I can remember a package I sent getting lost    I'm grateful for that!

 

Yeah, it seems like a pretty common misconception that insurance is to the buyer's benefit, probably stemming for how the option is phrased on sites like eBay.

 

I've had packages move from Chicago to Washington without tracking updates on a ground shipping service. How is that possible?

I've had packages get delivered without ever being updated in their system. A month after I got the item I still saw it was out for delivery.

I've had other packages with an expected delivery date of yesterday.

Many other problems I don't even remember. I don't use them anymore.

I understand keeping face value costs low, but it still rubs me that USPS can say they aren't responsible to refund you if you didn't have insurance on the item. You accepted to deliver this package and if you don't you've not held up your end of the bargain. Certain services have insurance included up to a certain amount, and I think all products should just include that. I mean its like $4 for $200 (I recently put this on an Earthbound I sold on eBay). Some sellers offer this service so if you say you don't want insurance and USPS loses the package you cant get your money back from them. Everyone passing the buck to everyone else.

I'm curious if anyone has ever had insurance and had to file a claim, what was the process like? Sorry to hijack a thread!

And I have essentially never had a memorable problem with USPS.  (though I have had a couple of memorable bad experiences with the big courier services)


I'm assuming there are some stats out there that are published (though they don't seem to pop up on a cursory search) that would give us a more accurate metric than comparing anecdotes.
 

It's really easy now.  Online form, if it's damage you just snap a few pics, provide an ebay screenshot as "proof of value" and you get a check in like a week.

It used to be a royal pain in the ass and they would never reimburse, as they didn't used to accept ebay (even completed auctions) as "proof of value".

No, by all means, I appreciate the post.  

Regarding the bolded section, what I now understand is that they are just plain wrong.  Essentially, a buyer's purchase is always insured as far as the buyer is concerned, so by paying for insurance, the buyer is really buying the seller insurance.  The perception has been twisted by sellers so that it seems like the insurance protects the buyer (as Nathan taught me in this very thread).
 

Yeah, if we're just swapping anecdotes, I have done well over 200 shipments with only one issue, so that's over 99.5% success.
 

What if you make a sale through paypal but outside of eBay?  Would showing them the payment amount count as proof of value?

 

Interesting I always thought they offered insurance as a separate service to cover their own ass in case of a carrier loss. It makes sense though because eBay pretty much always sides with buyers when disputes arise.