I just got a black Retron 5 last night. Although, I think I need to go back through and clean all of my old cartridges, because it really did NOT want to read the majority of my game collection. I tried 20 NES games on it, and it only recognized maybe 3 of them(TMNT, Zelda 2, and Mega Man 2 after a lot of attempts). All of my games work on my NES(new PIN connector) just fine. /sigh

It read my SNES and GBA/GB/GC games just fine. I don't own any Genesis games anymore, but now I've got a good reason to go get some.

I had a problem with reading my SNES cartridges. Moving it a bit inside the slot, make it load and the title appears.
I think you just need to find the correct "position".

Giving this a little bump since I can't find any info about this online. While I know this isn't tech support, I just need someone to confirm this for me.

Does the Retron 5 go through some sort of HDMI check before it even powers on initially? I've got two of them at my shop that I'm trying to run through a HDMI to composite converter, and they're not powering on. Well, I hold down the power button for 5-10 seconds, the lights come on, and then shut off. Kinda want to know if this is an issue with both my systems, or if it's just that it goes through some sort of HDMI check.

Now the reason why I'm not using it via HDMI port is that my monitors at my shop do not have HDMI, not only that, I wanted to try out if the zapper gun would work by using a Retron 5 on an older TV with a converter.

You should only have to hold down the Power button about 5.5 seconds (or less) to turn on (depending on if they installed the quick power on firmware update), and about 1 full second to power off.

What you're describing with it turning on then shutting off makes me wonder if somebody didn't try to root and write new invalid firmware, so it's turning off since it can't find anything to boot?

I would guess the zapper wouldn't work even through a converter to CRT because of the conversion delay. The Zapper needs split-second accuracy to see the white box, so I'd be surprised if it worked.

Of course this entire post is speculation so it'll be interesting to hear what someone with more hardware knowledge has to say.

Thanks for the input. I was thinking about the conversion delay, but I wanted to try it out for science. You're probably right about that though.

As for it shutting off, it's strange that both systems that's never been used to do that. I'll check my personal system at home after I get home from work to confirm everything, and to see if my converter would work on it to be sure if my two systems are busted.

Zapper will never work. I'm skeptical if the auxillary data lines are even connected. Vaus/Arkanoid controllers and Power Pads don't work either. SNES Mouse works but it doesn't use any auxillary data lines and support was written into the firmware as an Easter Egg.

Zapper technology relies on microsecond precision which can only be afforded by a scanning electron gun inside a CRT tube. Any kind of analog/digital conversions will add lag to the display and the Zapper will fire a miss. But I don't even think the Retron has the capacity to detect a trigger pull because the Zapper uses different data lines compared to a standard controller.

Hm. Not sure about hdmi>composite, I can confirm that it works with hdmi>dvi. Launch unit at least also boots happily without any hdmi connected.

Theres a small chance it could be HDCP or perhaps the resolution is not supported or detected by your converter(I wouldnt expect this to cause the device to turn off though).  When I really hosed up the firmware it would sometimes bootloop on the hyperkin logo, you could confirm they still work normally on another hdmi/hd tv.

As to whether all the pins on the controller are connected they certainly appear to be soldered to the board and I can't imagine why they would not connect them--although like everyone else here I am wildly speculating, I imagine its not a hardware problem(from the stand point of at least the trigger mechanism working) but a software/firmware problem.

edit: a quick continuity test shows all nes controller pins connected at least as far as the test points marked J4 in pic 20 in retrojunkie's teardown(the controller board revision is the same date as my launch unit) https://picasaweb.google.com/1019...

HDMI-to-DVI is not a converter, just a pass though. You will lose the audio feed, though, unless you have a separate splitter.

Love my RetroN5 that I bought myself for Xmas. So far it's had no problems reading ~100 sfc/snes carts including two repros, ~25 genesis, ~25 gameboy, ~15 nes including repros, and ~15 gba carts. I got one of the newer releases with the rubber controller port covers so I've not had any issues with the hard to remove cart problem. Plus, clean cartridge contacts helps with this. The SD card system works flawlessly and using IPS patches also works flawlessly. Overall I am very pleased with mine.

Hey been a while.

So I did actually end up picking up a Retron 5 this week. I actually got one of the new revisions where they fixed the cart grip death problems and increased the internal memory. A few things. Games look great on it. Every game I have tried so far has played in it, even some of my repros such as Fireman, and Star Ocean SNES. I of course tried Castlevania 3, and it worked, though it did crash in the first level. Not sure if that was a dirty cart of the Retrons fault, as the Retron said it couldnt clearly read the cart, but let me play it anyway.

I do want to dispel the input lag myth. If you have input lag, you simply have a bad HDTV. I did two test for input lag using the test cart for SNES.

The first test was with the included Bluetooth controller.

Input lag ended up being 4ms with the Wireless bluetooth controller.

The second test was with a regular SNES controller.

Input lag was 1ms. I did this test many times to confirm. Im running this on my 34 inch ASUS LED gaming monitor. honestly 1ms is nothing. I actually felt just fine playing with it like that.

I then hooked it up to my 60 inch Sony LCD TV. Its a slightly older model, which is 3d capable.
Input lag with the wireless controller was 10ms.

Input lag with a regular controller was 6ms.

That's good, Oddzball. You're lucky to have a good TV for it. I really liked the Retron 5 but the lag on my plasma was just too much to deal with so I sold it.

Thanks for the update man. I am still on the fence about getting one. Where did you get your ASUS gaming monitor? Mine is 23 inches and is very low latency (~8ms) but I long for something a bit bigger.

I have said again and again for people to ditch their HDTVs and get a 1080p monitor for gaming use to no avail. Manufacturers still refuse to list display lag specs so sans looking up charts online, it's basically a crap shoot if you buy one at the store whether it will be any good for gaming or not.

I was mistaken about the size. Mine is only ~28 inches. Here it is. http://www.asus.com/Monitors/MX27...

Says 5ms response time, but in gaming mode I averaged 1ms with the Testcart stuff. So I'm assuming its lower latency in gaming mode.

Okies. Why is it nigh impossible to find an ultra-low latency "gaming" monitor larger than 30 inches...

Funny thing is my TV in gaming mode is averaging 10ms, but that still feels WAY to slow for gaming IMO. Especially games like castlevania etc. Either way this pretty much proves you cannot blame the latency on the Retron5 itself.

A few things though, it definately looks good.. but differrent. I have my regular NES hooked up, and the Retron and can flip back and forth... the colors arent exactly right, but its hard to put my finger on it. For example in castlevania 3, first stage you have the arches in the background? On a real NES those arches have a slight... Shading along the bottom, which doesnt show up on any emulator. Not sure why.

Another thing to bear in mind, is the HDTV uses an ADC to convert the analog signal to HD. One problem is that most classic consoles output 240p (technically 262 scanlines every frame) when the HDTV is expecting 480i (262 + 263 scanlines). The converter randomly assigns one frame to the even scanlines and one frame to the odd scanlines, then applies some sort of cheap deinterlace algorithm. Next, the 480p deinterlaced signal is upscaled to whatever native resolution the HDTV supports. Both of these stages add lag to the composite signal, and can create various artifacts. Most commonly certain retro consoles routinely flickered sprites at 30Hz to create a transparent effect, like when Mario takes damage. Because alternating frames are split into separate fields for even and odd acanlines, this creates a venetian blind effect where the flickering sprite is displayed as tiny horizontal "venetian blinds" on the HDTV screen.

In general, it makes the signal look bad. Some consoles look worse than others, and there is no upscale chip produced on a commercial scale that properly scales 240p material to 1080 or whatever without attempting to deinterlace it as if it were 480i. For that, you will need expensive custom scalers that cost hundreds of dollars and still add lag on top of the HDTV post-processing. The cheap Monoprice scalers are likely no better than what's already inside your HDTV.

For lag free experience, best to stick to a CRT telivision set for SD consoles, and a low-latency 1080p monitor for HDMI consoles. There's not much other options for gamers, sadly.

How are you measuring all this?  The typical polling rate for bluetooth alone is 10ms.
  The response time of the lcd pixel is 5ms, so a 1ms input lag is simply not possible without time travel  

You deserve better than that.

I probably have a response time in the microsecond range. Maybe more if I use a really long RF cable. I have a nice convex screen. I prolly should go on a diet because I weigh a ton. Also I play nice with the Zapper peripheral. But if you expect me to interface that new-fangled Blu-Ray player, look elsewhere.

I hear you can still find guys like me at thrift stores and the like. Pick one up while you still have the chance because we're a dying breed. They don't make us like they used to.

What kind of screen am I?

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.ph...


ran the input lag test multiple times. My monitor comes out at 1ms mostly, with a few 2ms. Bluetooth made it end up about 4ms slower or so.

Are you looking at frames instead of ms? The manual lag test is a rhythm test, and does not have 1ms resolution. If you just push the button earlier then it will report a lower number.

Assuming you have pixel perfect precision all 10 times, the absolute lowest it can report is 1.6ms (9x 0 frames + 1x 1 frame / 10 frames * 16ms).

If you push the button too early it disregards that result, but you might be right I might be mistaking frames for ms. Its to late for me to be monkeying around and go look at the test again, but I was getting on an average poll(Which is 10 tries) a lot of green 0s and a few 1s, with maybe one 2-4 thrown in because I was slow. Going back and reading the directions I realize it can only be accurrate up to +-16ms(One frame) so in theory its likely the display had its rated 5ms. Since I have a known display with 5ms I could run the automated test if I had a way of splitting the hdmi video. That would eliminate my errors. Pretty bad though if its frames, considering my LED TV was getting 6 or so no matter how many times I tried.

I can tell you that the bluetooth controller significantly increased the input lag, and based on what you were say, if this was frames and not ms, that would mean an increase of 20ms or so. (Which is terrible and why I only use that controller for rpgs or whatever)


Whatever the case, it does make me wonder of the future for these old consoles, when CRTs become few and far between. I would love to test the Retron on a CRT but I dont have one that has HDMI input.

 

That shows how much it is measuring you instead of the system  

Try the gun minigame on Kirby's Adventure. It displays your reaction time. I could consistently get .13 seconds on a CRT. You need .15 or better to beat the boss. On the Wii-U Gamepad, I consistently got .16 and I had to save state and get lucky before I finally beat him. That looks like around 30ms to me, very close to two frames (~33ms). I assume the emulator uses a framebuffer, plus the 16ms lag measured by Nintendo on the Gamepad.

That SNES test thing could be useful to measure your own reaction time on a real SNES with a CRT using a flash cart of some type. Do like 5 trials, you should get close to the same results if you focus and your reaction speed is consistent. Average this result. That is your personal reaction time. It's a summation of the lag between when your eyes see the screen to your brain processes the info and sends an impulse to the muscles in your fingers. Assuming you are drug free, alert, and focused, your reaction time doesn't change much. Caffiene may raise your reaction speed slightly; alcohol or sleep deprivation will reduce it considerably.

Run the Retron5 with your preferred setup, once for the SNES controller and once for the wireless controller. Both times to trials of 5 reps, making sure they are not wildly varied. Now subtract your real console / CRT average from the Retron5 average to get the true lag on the system, rounded off to the nearest frame.

If you're going to use the 240p test suite manual lag test you have to run 20-30 sets and average out the results to get an approximation of your TV's input lag. Also set the test to randomly adjust the swing of the ball, otherwise your mind will start to instinctively lead the ball. But the only way you're going to get a truly accurate input lag measurement is to use the automatic lag test.