Doesn't it have to be developed by Nintendo to be a first party game? Nintendo have been known to publish third party titles and second party titles, that doesn't make them first party does it?

Edit, didn't see the other posts- put it this way, if Nintendo doesn't own a majority share then it's developed by a third party. Rareware were close as you get to Nintendo but it's still a second party title.

So if Nintendo pays people who aren't employed by Nintendo to make a video game, and Nintendo publishes that game, it's not a first-party Nintendo game? Is the original Donkey Kong arcade game a third-party game?

Nice find. Did you get it off Qixmaster? How did you find it?

No, it's still a first party title as Nintendo had control over how the game would operate and owned the IP. Is Dragon Quest 8 or Ni No Kuni a Level 5 game? Nope, they're Squeenix and Bandai Namco. Level 5 just programmed the game as the customers saw fit.

 

I don't know guys, I have no stake in this at all and I have no idea why I'm so interested in this debate, but I just can't agree. The whole reason first-party protos have the mystique and rarity that they do is because Nintendo is such an air-tight ship - they didn't send out review EPROMs, employees don't leave very often, etc. Dragon Warrior is a Nintendo of America product, so a copy leaking out is no different to me than a prototype of Kirby's Adventure or something, they're from the same place and were protected in probably the same ways. So to call one of them "third-party" based on who created the code inside of the cartridge instead of based on who actually made the cartridge and published the game demeans what a crazy good score this is.

The rarity of a prototype is not based on who coded the game, it's based on who was publishing the game and actually made the prototype cartridges! To me, that should be how they're defined, and for the NES, it either came from Nintendo or it came from somewhere else.

It's a first party proto, all stuff was controlled by first party. There is no arguing that. Nintendo DID NOT send out review copies to anyone anywhere anytime in the United States.

Also, the one qixmaster has came from me which was also found from Nintendo internally a long time ago.

Maybe we look at this differently, but to me, "first-party" means it's coming from the hands of the developers, whoever that may be. A second party comes from a review or test copy. The main difference being that first party are more likely to have been in development and have crazy variations from the final, though we all know a bunch of review copies also were not final versions.

First party is not a class of prototype.

So let me get this right, any rareware title that Nintendo had any control over is classed as a first party title?
Can you have a first party title made by a third party that Nintendo does not own?
I'd say the rarest prototypes are rareware prototypes from the N64 era, I've only heard of two confirmed held by collectors. I own several first party n64 prototypes but I wouldn't call my rareware one a first party title.

Did Nintendo create Dragon warrior then sell it off to exix?

Okay see, I'm thinking of it as "first-party" means Nintendo and "third-party" means one of its third-party developers, which I think is what those terms commonly mean here. Maybe that's the source of confusion.

If we want to differentiate cartridges used by developers to test the games from those that were used to demo/review/etc., I think you need some other kind of terminology, maybe development cart vs. prototype? Even then, it's usually impossible to trace the origins of a cartridge back to its source...

1st party in general use refers to games sold by the company who makes the console- Nintendo for the NES, Sega for the Genesis, Sony for the PS series, etc. 3rd party is everyone else selling games for that console- Capcom, Bandai, etc.

So what about a second party title sold by Nintendo?

There isn't such a thing back then. It's first party or third party. Nintendo controlled everything for it. It's not second party. It's first party. They had the rights, it is their game, they released it. Might as well call Kirby a second party game because of HAL LAB or something but in the development process and how these were done back then, it's first party and that's it. 
 

So when did Nintendo sell the rights to Dragon warrior?

As far as "classes" of prototypes. They are all development cartridges/prototypes.

Going into subsections of subsections is asinine. Making things extremely complicated back for absolutely no reason.

"Rare" developed games were published by different parties. If Nintendo published it, it is first party. If Acclaim did it (Like WIzards & Warriors) it is third party.

This is common even today, Activision didn't "make" Guitar Hero, but it's their game since they released it. It's a third party game.

Dragon Warrior III and IV are third party titles. I am not sure about II but Enix handled it themselves then, that is why games get out, people that have control release to media, etc but like it has been for the past 30+ years, first party and third party protos all exist. Different stages of development are Alpha and Beta, that's it. No "demo" copy, etc. It's been very clear for years.

I have protos of Rare games from Rare Coin-It in the back room of a bowling alley in Miami if you can believe that (Rare Coin-It was out there). But each and every one of those was when Milton Bradley, Acclaim, and Tradewest published their titles. Therefore I do not have a Slalom.

I always saw a big difference in first party published and first party developed, that's where our debate lies, I have always called it by developer not publisher especially if they can go straight to another platform with the series.
Officially this would be a third party title published by a first party?
I just find it really hard to say first party title when Nintendo didn't seem to own the rights to the IP.

Sure but if you look at this specific game, it was an Enix game that Nintendo licensed and localized. The English-language game Dragon Warrior is a Nintendo game, the original Dragon Quest is an Enix game.

Cool, good to know, I personally don't know anything about this title that's why I wondered if it was a Nintendo created title why haven't they kept the series running.

Well, with protos it doesn't work the same way.

If you are just talking in general then yes, developer/publisher make sense, but on confidential IP and rights at the time it is first party especially when talking about the development process.

Namco licensed Pac-Man to Bally/Midway for arcades, but ALL the PCBS were done by Bally/Midway, everything is on a "Midway" cabinet, Namco was an afterthought in the process because for all intents and purposes, Bally/Midway owned that product back then. It was theirs at the regardless of who developed it.

Right now it's a Namco game in terms of "release", just B/M had the rights back then, hence the point I am trying to make.

So the question is now what's the definition of a eighth party prototype

This is how I've always seen it as well. Didn't even know others had different concepts of 1st/3rd party games.

p.s. at most this is a 7th party game... no way it has reached the eighth tier of partiness

 

See, I've looked at in terms of the perspective of the proto itself, not the position of the company relative to Nintendo. So, assume Enix had made this game in the US, I'd consider it a third party release and a first party proto, if that makes sense.

Here is a situation I just remembered.
Conkers bad fur day was made by a second party.
Everywhere but Europe was published by Nintendo, Europe's version was published by THQ.
Due to these types of random situations is why I call a game by its developer not by its publisher.

This argument is utterly moronic. Are people really that confused over how publishing works?!?!

Dragon Warrior was published by Nintendo of America, fact. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if NOA converted the game from CNROM to MMC1 on top of all the marketing and printing they did for that game. Dragon Warrior 1 was even given out for free as a promotional for Nintendo Power. How is it not a first party game?!

Another example, the US/CAN release of MegaMan 6 is a first party Nintendo game, because it was published by Nintendo rather than Capcom.

Congrats on the epic Dragon Warrior proto friend!

I'm pretty familiar with Dragon Warrior, so if you wanna go hunting for differences I'd be glad to help!

Also I think the real question is which was the first Nintendo prototype to descend from Cain? That one would surely have the most power!... or value?