NintendoAge http://nintendoage.com/forum/ -Sqooner The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T14:02:53 -05.00 portnoyd- 436 Originally posted by: MrMark0673

Originally posted by: buyatari2

Collecting prototypes in VGA cases is very strange to me and I never saw the attraction.

Yeah, not for me at all either.  The only appeal is that the buyer has peace of mind from a 3rd party stating the game is real.  To my knowledge, every single VGA'd proto I've sold was later opened.  The buyer was just happy to have VGA give it the thumbs up, so they bought knowing it wasn't a fake.
 
I'm sure. Unless someone bought the prototype hoping to flip it I can't see those VGA cases lasting very long. It really shouldn't be an issue in the preservation. 

Honestly, preservation should happen at the VGA level. Wouldn't you want to look at the code anyway if you were in the business of certifying prototypes? They could hold that data for comparisons if there was a question later on. If the VGA one of a kind prototype eproms ever died they could even charge the owner for a restore. 

]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T13:14:44 -05.00 portnoyd- 436 Originally posted by: buyatari2

Collecting prototypes in VGA cases is very strange to me and I never saw the attraction.
Yeah, not for me at all either.  The only appeal is that the buyer has peace of mind from a 3rd party stating the game is real.  To my knowledge, every single VGA'd proto I've sold was later opened.  The buyer was just happy to have VGA give it the thumbs up, so they bought knowing it wasn't a fake.

]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T13:11:22 -05.00 portnoyd- 436 Originally posted by: MrMark0673

Originally posted by: buyatari2

The data alone from an unreleased prototype is worth more than the physical prototype once that data has been released.
Once the data is out there, it can be obtained for free, so I still think the physical copy holds more value.

All of my items are backed up, and none are shared after a sale.  Hell, for my Marble Madness sale, I was asked to not post additional pictures, music, video, or even information about the game after the sale.  Two years later, my lips have been sealed, and the ROM will never see a release.

It's a good thing I backed up the data too, because I've had a buyer require I send the ROM to a VGA'd proto to complete the sale.  Without it, I'd have a paperweight.
 
Sure once the data is out there the data goes from having some real value to zero. This then causes the hard copy to lose most of the value it had when that data was unavailable.

Collecting prototypes in VGA cases is very strange to me and I never saw the attraction. 

]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T12:54:02 -05.00 portnoyd- 436 Originally posted by: buyatari2

The data alone from an unreleased prototype is worth more than the physical prototype once that data has been released. Once the data is out there, it can be obtained for free, so I still think the physical copy holds more value.

All of my items are backed up, and none are shared after a sale.  Hell, for my Marble Madness sale, I was asked to not post additional pictures, music, video, or even information about the game after the sale.  Two years later, my lips have been sealed, and the ROM will never see a release.

It's a good thing I backed up the data too, because I've had a buyer require I send the ROM to a VGA'd proto to complete the sale.  Without it, I'd have a paperweight.

]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T11:11:03 -05.00 portnoyd- 436
The data alone from an unreleased prototype is worth more than the physical prototype once that data has been released. ]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T10:30:44 -05.00 portnoyd- 436 Originally posted by: tracker465

Originally posted by: MrMark0673

Originally posted by: B.A.

- Grading of prototypes, NWC's and the like. Now don't get that confused with authentication, I think there is real value in an authentication service. I'm talking about assigning an 85+/gold, 85/silver, what have you grade to a prototype. What difference does it make the condition of something like that? These also obviously aren't new, the comeback is they were never available in packaging, that still flies in the face of their prior stance of only grading new items. They will give it a "NG" for no grade, but from what I understand that is only by request.

I like grading of new sealed games for those who want it, it's by and large the extra stuff they get into that I'm not a fan.

Just to speak on this part, I agree fully.  I was the first person to Authenticate a proto, and I specifically asked that they not grade it.  I wanted to set a precident for protos to not be valued on condition, but on authentication.  To my knowledge, there has not been a single prototype with a numerical grade, and having worked closely with Chad on the process, I'm doubtful that there ever will be.
 
So if someone slabs a prototype to authenticate it, but they don't have the tools necessary to dump it, I guess that means that although the game is authenticated and physically preserved, the data is not preserved unless someone else has the balls to break it out of the case.  Not such a good situation, imo.

I'm not trying to rag on you Mark, and I know you and Matt back your things up.  But I could definitely see some non collector in the future sometime doing something like that, to help with a sale, and then being stuck in the predicament like I mentioned previously.

 
No Dave, you're a million percent correct.  If someone were to slab a proto prior to it being dumped, it would actually be less likely to be preserved as far as the data is concerned.  I find it to be irresponsible personally, but can't do much to prevent it.  Very valid point, and one worth considering for anyone buying a slabbed proto or slabbing one themselves.

I've personally done 3 protos I think, (I could be wrong) and all are backed up privately at the very least.

Edit:  Done at least 5; 2 NES, one Famicom, and 2 SNES that I can remember.

]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T08:09:27 -05.00 portnoyd- 436 Originally posted by: MrMark0673

Originally posted by: B.A.

- Grading of prototypes, NWC's and the like. Now don't get that confused with authentication, I think there is real value in an authentication service. I'm talking about assigning an 85+/gold, 85/silver, what have you grade to a prototype. What difference does it make the condition of something like that? These also obviously aren't new, the comeback is they were never available in packaging, that still flies in the face of their prior stance of only grading new items. They will give it a "NG" for no grade, but from what I understand that is only by request.

I like grading of new sealed games for those who want it, it's by and large the extra stuff they get into that I'm not a fan.

Just to speak on this part, I agree fully.  I was the first person to Authenticate a proto, and I specifically asked that they not grade it.  I wanted to set a precident for protos to not be valued on condition, but on authentication.  To my knowledge, there has not been a single prototype with a numerical grade, and having worked closely with Chad on the process, I'm doubtful that there ever will be.
  So if someone slabs a prototype to authenticate it, but they don't have the tools necessary to dump it, I guess that means that although the game is authenticated and physically preserved, the data is not preserved unless someone else has the balls to break it out of the case.  Not such a good situation, imo.

I'm not trying to rag on you Mark, and I know you and Matt back your things up.  But I could definitely see some non collector in the future sometime doing something like that, to help with a sale, and then being stuck in the predicament like I mentioned previously.


]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T07:51:06 -05.00 portnoyd- 436 Originally posted by: B.A.

- Grading of prototypes, NWC's and the like. Now don't get that confused with authentication, I think there is real value in an authentication service. I'm talking about assigning an 85+/gold, 85/silver, what have you grade to a prototype. What difference does it make the condition of something like that? These also obviously aren't new, the comeback is they were never available in packaging, that still flies in the face of their prior stance of only grading new items. They will give it a "NG" for no grade, but from what I understand that is only by request.

I like grading of new sealed games for those who want it, it's by and large the extra stuff they get into that I'm not a fan.
Just to speak on this part, I agree fully.  I was the first person to Authenticate a proto, and I specifically asked that they not grade it.  I wanted to set a precident for protos to not be valued on condition, but on authentication.  To my knowledge, there has not been a single prototype with a numerical grade, and having worked closely with Chad on the process, I'm doubtful that there ever will be.

]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-29T00:22:17 -05.00 portnoyd- 436 Originally posted by: B.A.

I'm going to shift gears a bit here and go ahead and talk about some of the things I'm personally not keen on with VGA. These will probably be by and large ignored because they aren't about money, thus not sensational enough, but here goes.

- Although they don't disclose their criteria for grading, most people who pay attention know what they look for. I think it's crazy how they value the condition of the wrap over even the game box. An example of what I mean is there was a SMB2 that had a noticeably smushed in corner, yet had no scuffs/tears in the shrinkwrap and was given a gold grade. They put WAY too much emphasis on the condition of the outer plastic IMO. Does it really matter if the wrap has a scuff if the game itself is perfect? Not so much to me.

- Qualified grading. This is my biggest gripe with VGA. Qualified is riddled with flaws. Trying to call something new but open is just asking for problems. If you read the manual is it still new? How about if you write in the manual? People have admitted to putting together mint components (frankensteining) to get a qualified grade, that shouldn't work. The label for qualified grades should be much more noticeable so that listings on ebay will be obvious.

- Grading of prototypes, NWC's and the like. Now don't get that confused with authentication, I think there is real value in an authentication service. I'm talking about assigning an 85+/gold, 85/silver, what have you grade to a prototype. What difference does it make the condition of something like that? These also obviously aren't new, the comeback is they were never available in packaging, that still flies in the face of their prior stance of only grading new items. They will give it a "NG" for no grade, but from what I understand that is only by request.

I like grading of new sealed games for those who want it, it's by and large the extra stuff they get into that I'm not a fan. Nice to hear some good points BA  Agree with most all of that.


]]> The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=29883 2014-05-28T21:39:07 -05.00 portnoyd- 436
I think the idea of selling graded copies is silly though, as there's no attachment that way. If you genuinely want a sealed/graded copy, is it more special and exciting to...

a) track down a good sealed copy
b) pay a fistful of money to send it in
c) wait anxiously to get it back,
d) open your parcel and see your sealed copy safe inside a dazzling case

or...

a) buy some a-hole's graded copy on ebay

VGA is a fine service for those who want to use it. It's a luxury item to be sure, so it's not really meant to be for everyone. I'd also like to say that I don't really believe at all that VGA is driving the prices of games up. Retro games are hip right now, and there are only so many copies to go around. The more people want, the more games cost, and the VGA is just a convenient thing to point fingers at and blame out of frustration.

VGA doesn't hurt anyone, and I'll never understand why people get so uptight about it. ]]>