NintendoAge http://nintendoage.com/forum/ -Sqooner [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2018-05-30T00:45:01 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 Originally posted by: ap123

I can highly recommend it, although similar to Kosmic, I have been mainly using the AVS recently, so haven't had to over exert my BLW. I modded one of my Game Genies to work with it by sawing off part of the nose. Still no issues with the pin connectors, even after cramming in that thick pcb.

  ]]> [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2018-05-29T02:18:27 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2018-05-28T19:27:32 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2018-05-27T22:53:29 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2018-05-27T19:04:23 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2016-06-09T13:25:55 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 Originally posted by: Bratwurst

The aftermarket connectors eventually relax their death grip just as the BLW also will wear in over time, $5-7 vs $30, both are comparable experiences, one is more expensive and not justifiably so.
I'd say the BLW not scratching the hell out of my carts' pins is worth it.  Especially given the reports that most aftermarket connectors fail in some way relatively quickly if used regularly.  No such issues out of my BLW after a couple months' use.
  ]]> [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2016-06-09T03:14:43 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
 
Originally posted by: Great Hierophant
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

That particular NES already had the CIC disabled so NWC's timer was already broken.   Also, the BLW itself circumvents the CIC in a way that likely breaks NWC compatibility in the same way (no CIC reset). The point of the BLW is to make it work as reliably as a top loader. The top loader doesn't have the pins for exp audio, doesn't have a CIC for NWC, and the CPU CLK pin is NC, so this only makes functionality closer: easier to remove while still being just as reliable/functional as the top loader. If you want EXP audio on the top loader NES-101 you have to modify the cart or use Hi-Def NES, just like an NES-001 with this BLW mod.

The average user this is intended for just want's their NES to work reliably and will never use EXP audio, CopyNES, or NWC. We actually let a coworker try it modified and unmodified, explained what he would lose if he chose modified, and he chose modified. I think it's clear that the average user would rather have 20% less grip strength. I'm NOT the average user and even I prefer that.
The average front loader NES owner got rid of his console fifteen to twenty years ago.  Those people with NESes who bought a BLW are already beyond average.  

I agree with you that your average NES owner would not want to install a CopyNES in his system and will never come near an Official Nintendo World Championships cartridge.  But before indisriminately pulling pins and doing irreversible damage to a BLW, they should be made aware of what they are giving up.  The expansion audio will be exceptionally dearly missed once you hear how well it was put to use.  Castlevania 3, Gimmick and to a lesser extent Rolling Thunder sound so much better with expansion audio.

I determined earlier that the BLW does pass the lockout chip's reset signal to the cartridge, its the only one of the four signals it passes to the cartridge, so NWC and the SMB/T/NWC carts should work appropriately.
 
This. You can do what you want to your own personal system, but I would prefer to leave mine stock as they aren't hurting anything. And I don't think you should be pulling pins from the BLW and selling them to customers without full disclosure. Should they decide to get a PowerPak and mod their system in the future, they'll be in for a rude awakening.

And yes I got the NES working again. Loading and unloading the carts with the NES lid off clearly gave me an indication that the "death grip" is not so severe and in fact the cart loader really doesn't grip any more tightly than my SNES (when not using the edject tab) or AV Famicom. The problem is there's only about 3/8 inches of cart to grab, and for those of us with large man fingers, gripping the thumb tab is almost impossible. It would be neat if someone could fabricate an eject tab similar to what the SNES had, but I can't imagine such a device would work without cutting up the case plastics.

A better mod for the BLW if you wanna go "stock" would be to remove the CIC and jumper the four pins together. Then you still get the benefit of "blinking screen" when attempting to play an out of region or just simply stubborn/dirty cart. Not sure why anyone would want to as I have no nostalgia for that shite.  
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

Sorry to hear that your Game Genie plan didn't quite work out.   
 
It's okay; the situation fixed itself and my NES is reading carts again. Fortunately there is zero evidence of pin damage anywhere. I still don't know what was up with the blank screen issue, but disassembly and reassembly apparently fixed whatever was wrong. I would advice extreme caution and very gentle insertion if using a modified Game Genie.

I also once trashed a "junk" 3rd party pin connector with a Genie, but I think that particular specimen was just faulty. After fixing the damaged pins, a couple more pins got bent a few days later, this time using it with a normal cart. Attempting to fix them failed, pins broken off inside, and I ended up buying two more replacement connectors from another source. The next one lasted me until I installed the BLW last year, but it wasn't super reliable either. Sometimes the cassette tape or CD jewel case holding the tray at half mast was still needed, or I just used my AV Famicom with a pin adapter. We did do what we wanted to our personal system and our coworker tested modded/unmodded BLWs side-by-side and wanted the same mod on his. You say we can do that to our own systems but you're having some vehement reaction/objection to it anyway, even describing some "customer" issue that doesn't exist. Where did THAT come from?! We are just two guys on the Internet who were annoyed by the same issue every other BLW user was having so we decided to show/share what we did to lessen the issue for us. Neither installing an unmodified BLW nor modding for expansion audio is leaving yours stock, so I'm even more confused if this is your stated reason to object.

I've been using the modified newer revision BLW with 20% of the pins removed for months now and it's still annoyingly tight. Still, it's much easier than my unmodified newer revision BLW, so I would not say that the unused pins are not hurting anything: they are measurably harming ease of use/removal. I don't know anyone who would be capable of modding the system for expansion audio for use with a Power Pak who is also somehow unable to put in the connector of their choice, so this disappointingly-stuck-with-it situation does not sound like a real scenario to me at all. They can buy two and modify one, just like we did. It's not like replacement connectors have disappeared from the market and I don't know where this weird concern about unsuspecting users comes from. Who removes the pins without reading about what they are for first?! No one did it to unsuspecting users and no one encouraged clueless users to do it. Objecting to people doing this is a bit like objecting to users buying a toploader.

Before I removed the CPU CLK pin, I read that it was NC on the toploader and only used by the CopyNES. Though I am interested in a CopyNES or a HiDef NES with CopyNES functions, I have a Kazoo dumper and a spare unmodified BLW I can use. I made the rational, reasoned, decision to remove that pin. I made the rational, reasoned, decision to remove every unused EXP pin too: I will be getting digital expansion audio from HiDef NES which has no use for the analog audio muxing on EXP pins. Even if I weren't, I prefer the external mixing cable mod for expansion audio so that I can use the pak in my AV-modded toploader and still get expansion audio. I have other options as well (spare NES-001, Famicom with 72-pin adapter, etc). Furthermore, I made the rational, reasoned, decision to remove the CIC pins, since they so obviously did not connect to anything anyway, the CIClone was built-in, and the console already had the CIC disabled. I did know that the NWC cart needs the CIC, though I did not know why. Even so, I would never put an NWC into a BLW. Sure, the issue is more "not enough grip to easily remove" than "death grip makes removal difficult," but they can't even design the carraige in a way that doesn't snag and I wouldn't trust an expensive trophy like that in one.

FWIW, I used the Game Genie with my modded BLW extensively. At first I thought the pressure on the door was abnormal until I read the GG manual and saw that it does that on an unmodified NES as well. I even daisy-chained them! No, I wasn't cheating. I was putting in patches that fix the black color value in The Immortal.   It may be that this mod improves Game Genie compatibility as well.   ]]> [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2016-06-09T02:30:43 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 Originally posted by: Great Hierophant
 
Originally posted by: CZroe

That particular NES already had the CIC disabled so NWC's timer was already broken.   Also, the BLW itself circumvents the CIC in a way that likely breaks NWC compatibility in the same way (no CIC reset). The point of the BLW is to make it work as reliably as a top loader. The top loader doesn't have the pins for exp audio, doesn't have a CIC for NWC, and the CPU CLK pin is NC, so this only makes functionality closer: easier to remove while still being just as reliable/functional as the top loader. If you want EXP audio on the top loader NES-101 you have to modify the cart or use Hi-Def NES, just like an NES-001 with this BLW mod.

The average user this is intended for just want's their NES to work reliably and will never use EXP audio, CopyNES, or NWC. We actually let a coworker try it modified and unmodified, explained what he would lose if he chose modified, and he chose modified. I think it's clear that the average user would rather have 20% less grip strength. I'm NOT the average user and even I prefer that.
The average front loader NES owner got rid of his console fifteen to twenty years ago.  Those people with NESes who bought a BLW are already beyond average.  

I agree with you that your average NES owner would not want to install a CopyNES in his system and will never come near an Official Nintendo World Championships cartridge.  But before indisriminately pulling pins and doing irreversible damage to a BLW, they should be made aware of what they are giving up.  The expansion audio will be exceptionally dearly missed once you hear how well it was put to use.  Castlevania 3, Gimmick and to a lesser extent Rolling Thunder sound so much better with expansion audio.

I determined earlier that the BLW does pass the lockout chip's reset signal to the cartridge, its the only one of the four signals it passes to the cartridge, so NWC and the SMB/T/NWC carts should work appropriately.
  Yeah, but I said "the average user this is intended for," which is already limited to today's "above average" users who would buy this. I chose my words deliberately: The Kickstarter campaign goal specifically stated that they wanted to make something that "effectively makes the toaster NES a side-loading top-loader." Their exact words. They specifically disabled the CIC with the BLW, so NWC was never a consideration while duplicating the reliability of the toploader was.

Of course we are aware of what we are giving up. The pins were identified, the pros/cons laid out, and the decision was made. Every user has their choice/priorities. It's always been the user's call, so I'm baffled that anyone is reacting like the mod is being forced on unsuspecting users. A user can buy two BLWs and keep one stock if they want, just like we did. If a user could jumper a wire for CIC reset or add expansion audio then they could certainly replace a modified connector.

  ]]> [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2016-06-08T23:30:00 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
The reset line exists, and is the only one. It is on the other side of the connector. There are traces on the front side (that accepts the cart slots) as well, like due to interferance from the CiC board getting in the way.

  I see the lines on the front side of the BLW but it is impossible to tell for sure which lines go where without a continuity tester.  Since I have neither a BLW or a multimeter, I cannot say for sure which lines go to the cartridge.  I believe that the three lines on the CIC side are +5v, GND and +5v.  Given that one line goes to either side of an IC decoupling capacitor and that the Kevtris CIClone pinout given here makes sense : http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/CIC_lockout_chip_pinout, I would suggest that the reset line goes nowhere other than pin 5 of the chip.

  ]]> [Tech] Blinking Light Win: Fixing your toaster NES for good (72-pin replacement) http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=139091 2016-06-08T23:12:46 -05.00 shadowkn55 355 Originally posted by: Great Hierophant

Actually, I was mistaken. The BLW's photo showed the connector upside down!  Jason's video here :

 
allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="280" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iJzEcJn0zbY" width="500">>

has good enough closeups of the BLW to show that it doesn't connect any pins from the lockout chip on either side of its PCB. The pins that do run to the cartridge connector and intersect with the lockout chip pins are +5v and ground.

However, it would be easy enough to fix the issue by soldering a wire from pin 70 on the mainboard connector to pin 70 on the cartridge connector on the BLW.   The reset line exists, and is the only one. It is on the other side of the connector. There are traces on the front side (that accepts the cart slots) as well, like due to interferance from the CiC board getting in the way.

EDIT: After careful examination of the BLW, I stand corrected.
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