NintendoAge http://nintendoage.com/forum/ -Sqooner [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-13T02:17:28 -05.00 K3VBOT 96
http://www.electroschematics.com/335/stun-gun-simple-schematic/

Somebody should build a USB version of this NES device (secondary of the output transformer connects to data + and data -) and sell them on the black market. Lot of sinister uses I could envision for this...   ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-13T02:12:34 -05.00 K3VBOT 96 Originally posted by: K3VBOT
 
Originally posted by: Wildstar
 
Originally posted by: K3VBOT
 
Originally posted by: Wildstar

Why would anyone in their right mind create such a cartridge?

Come on, use your creative for productive purposes not destructive purposes.

 

You realize I'm a moderator and can read your comments regardless  
 

Yeah, I know that. Don't let moderator status get to your head though. On the other hand, if I edit something because I thought it was too harsh and tone it down, it should indicate to you that I had rethought about what I said. I still stand on the point that this kind of creative energy is better used on productive / creative things like creating games for the NES. There is so many easy ways to destroy an NES but why? We love the NES, don't we? Isn't that why we are here?

No need to specifically respond to the questions but hey, it's just a critical respond not a personal opinion of you. I don't know you enough to like or dislike or love or hate. 

 

"Don't let moderator status get to my head", you don't see me reversing your edit, do you? Which I could, but since you've been a good sport and the good discussion, I won't.. A post like that on anyone's thread typically warrants a spot in the mod squad discussion.
And a little quick to judge if you ask me though, I make NES games, K3VBOT's Homebrew Highlights. Have 6 games under my belt and continue to work on and release games. 
A little "because I can" project didn't hurt anyone, and I'm not coming over to your house to test your system  

On a side note, you're pretty close on the 5v in, charging, and sending a charge down the address lines. You know your electronics.
It's good that we're being good sports here. I look forward to seeing more good stuff from you for the NES. 

  ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-13T02:01:15 -05.00 K3VBOT 96 Originally posted by: Wildstar
 
Originally posted by: K3VBOT
 
Originally posted by: Wildstar

Why would anyone in their right mind create such a cartridge?

Come on, use your creative for productive purposes not destructive purposes.

 

You realize I'm a moderator and can read your comments regardless  
 

Yeah, I know that. Don't let moderator status get to your head though. On the other hand, if I edit something because I thought it was too harsh and tone it down, it should indicate to you that I had rethought about what I said. I still stand on the point that this kind of creative energy is better used on productive / creative things like creating games for the NES. There is so many easy ways to destroy an NES but why? We love the NES, don't we? Isn't that why we are here?

No need to specifically respond to the questions but hey, it's just a critical respond not a personal opinion of you. I don't know you enough to like or dislike or love or hate. 

 
"Don't let moderator status get to my head", you don't see me reversing your edit, do you? Which I could, but since you've been a good sport and the good discussion, I won't.. A post like that on anyone's thread typically warrants a spot in the mod squad discussion.
And a little quick to judge if you ask me though, I make NES games, K3VBOT's Homebrew Highlights. Have 6 games under my belt and continue to work on and release games. 
A little "because I can" project didn't hurt anyone, and I'm not coming over to your house to test your system  

On a side note, you're pretty close on the 5v in, charging, and sending a charge down the address lines. You know your electronics. ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-13T01:26:05 -05.00 K3VBOT 96 Originally posted by: K3VBOT
 
Originally posted by: Wildstar

Why would anyone in their right mind create such a cartridge?

Come on, use your creative for productive purposes not destructive purposes.

 

You realize I'm a moderator and can read your comments regardless  
 
Yeah, I know that. Don't let moderator status get to your head though. On the other hand, if I edit something because I thought it was too harsh and tone it down, it should indicate to you that I had rethought about what I said. I still stand on the point that this kind of creative energy is better used on productive / creative things like creating games for the NES. There is so many easy ways to destroy an NES but why? We love the NES, don't we? Isn't that why we are here?

No need to specifically respond to the questions but hey, it's just a critical respond not a personal opinion of you. I don't know you enough to like or dislike or love or hate. 


  ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-13T00:39:09 -05.00 K3VBOT 96 Originally posted by: Wildstar

Why would anyone in their right mind create such a cartridge?

Come on, use your creative for productive purposes not destructive purposes.

 
You realize I'm a moderator and can read your comments regardless  
  ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-12T23:54:44 -05.00 K3VBOT 96
You just can't keep pulsing 9v or 50v or 200v for too long before the chip gives up the ghost UNLESS the current is so infintismally small that it's negligible. ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-12T23:44:31 -05.00 K3VBOT 96 Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
 
Originally posted by: Wildstar
 
Originally posted by: AaronE

^Wildstar, have you ever met Guntz? You two might get along  

I have intricate knowledge of how this was made and how it operates I've been sworn to secrecy though :X

I will tell you wildstar that your previous estimations of the output voltage are off by at least a factor of -4x.
 

Perhaps the output voltage isn't nearly that high. It only needs to be a little bit above the max voltage to kill the CPU and PPU on the console. I'm just giving an example of how you can instantly kill the console with electricity. The chips are 5v tolerant chips. If you hit chips with over 7.0v, it's likely you'll be causing damage if not destroying the chips. 7.0v is part of the maximum voltage specifications of the 65c02s chip. The PPU and CPU uses a 65c02 core with additional custom on-die components. Again, 10v would kill the chips.
 
I seriously doubt that 10V is anywhere near the breakdown voltage of the chips. Running them a little bit overvoltage won't kill them immediately, but a 2x increase in voltage will quadruple the heat dissipation of the chip. Actually it's greater than that. Assuming the diode junctions have a Vdrop of .8V, and there are two of them between the GND and VCC, this gives the chip around 3.4V internally to work with. At 6.4V [1.6V + sqrt2 * 3.4V], the heat dissipation would be twice what it is at 5V. At 8.4V [1.6V + 3.4V*2], the heat dissipation would be four times what it is at 5V. The chip could definitely handle momentary overvoltage by a volt or so or across one or more of it's pins, but the black resin the chip packages are constructed from can only dissipate so much heat production. As a result the internal junction would temperature would rise even moreso above ambient temperature than the increase in wattage. Pushing the chip far out of tolerance can in some cases permanently alter the silicone even if it still apparently functions, causing intermittent problems with other I/O logic chips in the circuit. A circuit that does not outright fail but occasionally misbehaves can be difficult to diagnose.

As an example, the lockout "zapper" circuit used in unlicensed game carts provided -5V to the input pin on the lockout chip. This caused the chip to malfunction in such a manner that it did not trip the reset switch, allowing the console to function normally. However despite being operated repeatedly out of spec such that the chip could not function properly as long as the inverted signal was present, this caused no long term damage to the lockout chips, which would resume proper operation as soon as the out of spec signal was removed. Nintendo later tharted this workaround by adding a diode and shunt resistor to the lockout schematic. This safely dumped the inverse voltage source to ground without damage to the console or game cart, but the game cart refused to operate on such systems.

A catastrophic failure of the IC chip can be caused in one of two ways. Frying it by running the chip out of tolerance for extended periods by exceeding the absolute ratings of the device could get the silicon hot enough internally so that it breaks down. Generally the chip will develop burn marks or welts in the casing indicating visible damage. So I think placing -5 or +10 volts on a single I/O, likely may not be enough to destroy the chip but will likely impede proper operation.

The other method is to create a voltage potential inside the chip that exceeds the breakdown voltage of the silicon junction. A quick static charge will do this. Low current CMOS generally operates by pairs of MOSFET transistors on each output. These transistors conduct when a charge at their input causing the N-type or P-type silicon wafer inside to change types, allowing current to pass across the transistor. Unlike Bipolar transistor, each MOSFET have a thin insulator isolating the collector from the Base and Emitter. If a charge of sufficient strength to "zap" the collector is present, this insulating layer is destroyed causing current from the input to leak into the body of the transistor. Current flows from the Collector into the Base or Emitter and the MOSFET ceases to function properly.

In an IC circuit, leakage current caused by a "zapped" collector, internally or externally, will cause the chip to draw excessive current and get hot when connected to a rated supply. Sometimes the faulty chip will blow the regulator or fuse, and other times, as in the case of overvoltage supplied to the VCC of the PCB, one dead chip will sink so much current that the supply droops, preventing cascading failures of other healthy chips on the board. If you hit the cpu with with one of those stun gun electro zappers for about 10 to 15 seconds, it's pretty much toast.

If you noticed, it was essentially pulsating like strobing the lines with what I would say is probably overvoltage or overcurrent using an oscillation rate similar to the pulse rate of a stun gun would be. Basically charging capacitor(s) and then releasing that charge at one. Basically spiking the chips. The 5v feed would easily be stepped up to 500,000v. A stun gun uses a voltage amplifier circuit to bump up the voltage from input voltage like 9v (or in the case of the NES would be a 5v input source) and step up that voltage to something a bit higher. Stun guns are known to be in the 500,000 to well over 1 Million volts. In which case, I'm quite confident that the 65c02 would not be surviving that much for that long. It's not like Nintendo was designing the NES to survive that extreme of conditions. Remember, the NES was designed around 5v. Typically, operating withing +0.3v above VDD. When VDD is 5v, it's typically design to be operating between -0.3v to VDD +0.3v but VDD can be up to 7.0v. But if you hit that with 1 Million VOLTS, it's probably not going to be doing so good after 10 seconds of that. Much like a human being wouldn't be doing so good after 10 seconds of that.

From what I was seeing and hearing in the video, it seems like the guy was basically making a 'stun gun' type circuit to zap the chip to death. As for the exact voltage and current, it's probably doesn't need to be that high. This type of stun gun zapper circuit that I am talking about is a bit more brutal than that of the lockout chip. I would think Nintendo would have the NES go into forced resetting. 



  ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-12T23:37:07 -05.00 K3VBOT 96 Originally posted by: AaronE
 
Originally posted by: Mega Mario Man

All this talk about breaking Nintendos and no one is questioning what happened to versions 1 and 2???? I'm a bit scared to learn of their fate.
V1 and 2 were non-functional prototypes, V3 is the only functional one.

  This was much more exciting in my head... Thanks for ruining it.  
  ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-12T23:31:15 -05.00 K3VBOT 96 Originally posted by: AaronE

Originally posted by: Mega Mario Man

All this talk about breaking Nintendos and no one is questioning what happened to versions 1 and 2???? I'm a bit scared to learn of their fate.
V1 and 2 were non-functional prototypes, V3 is the only functional one.

 


are these prototypes for sale?!?   ]]> [Death] Console Killer Ver 3 http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=168385 2016-12-12T23:29:43 -05.00 K3VBOT 96 Originally posted by: Mega Mario Man

All this talk about breaking Nintendos and no one is questioning what happened to versions 1 and 2???? I'm a bit scared to learn of their fate. V1 and 2 were non-functional prototypes, V3 is the only functional one.

  ]]>